OK, the field piece in front of our county courthouse is from the  Watervliet Arsenal, dated 1899. Bore is 3.5". On the muzzle is stamped 829 lbs. Wood spoked wheels, steel limber. Here's a link to the pic:

 http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g66/Gerarddm/WatervlietRifle1.jpg

and the breech:  http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g66/Gerarddm/WatervlietRifle1Breech.jpg

and the muzzle: http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g66/Gerarddm/WatervlietRifleMuzzle.jpg

Is this similar to what you saw?

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Gerard>
WA State
Current:
1/700 What-If Railgun Battlecruiser
1/700 Admiralty COURAGEOUS battlecruiser

Nice atty piece, how about an ID for the original poster? Sorry I have no idea

To further confabulate the issue my dad (ex-19th Field Highland Gunners) always told me that the SHELL was the weapon, everything else was delivery!

Jon UK

Field gun VS Howitzer.....

There are numerous occasions that Howitzers were used as Direct fire support (against enemy tanks and infantry) and field guns used as indirect fire support weapon.  During the battle of Buldge, a battery of airborne FA unit (this unit volunteered to go with 101st ABN Div, even though this unit was not a part of 101st) equipped with 75mm PACK Howitzer engaged enemy tanks (direct fire).  There were reports (during ODS) that U.S. 155mm Paladins engaged enemy tanks (direct fire) and destroying them as well. 

Germans used their 88mm guns as AAA, ATA, as well as indirect fire missions as well.   During a Korean war, US AAA batteries were used mostly as indirect fire missions as well. 

I'm not a FA officer, but did spend enough time as a rifle platoon leader (and I get my military facts mostly from Oprah, Montel william and Regis and Kelly shows) to work with FSOs and FOs attached to my unit.  From what I understand (which isn't much), prior to late 1800's/early 1900's, gunners actually had to have visual contact with targets (most likely due to the range of artillery pieces) in order to engage and there were no FSO or FO attached to Infantry units. And also, war doctrine back then is way different (fought in open grounds) than now (engaging enemies far away).   Nowdays, gunners don't need to visually contact targets in order to engage due to improvement of accuracy and range and FSO, FIST and FO  attached to infantry units are the eyes nd ears for FA batteries far far away from targets.

As for comment made by LTP319 "Just because one is a artillery officer today that is an OC at NTC doesn't make them an expert.",  yes, Heavyarty may not be an "Expert" or may not have all the knowledge in the world (afterall, no one is perfect), however, fact is that he is a trained FA officer and is part of the finest unit in the U.S. Army.  Just keep in mind that in order to become an FA officer, you need to go through rigorous training (starts from FAOBC, which is longer, harder and have more wash out rate than any other OBCs).  FA officers are expert mathmaticians, scientists, weathermen, astrologists, historians and infantry tactics.  NTC is a place where we train our troops and they don't just randomly select anyone to train our troops.   

I'm not taking anyone's side and saying who's wrong or who's right.  However, I can say that Heavyarty is not talking out of his a$$ and if I'm in a situation to command a rifle company, I'd depend my life on this "Artillery Officer that is an OC at NTC" without any hegitation.

By the way, did I mentioned if you are not an infantry, your only reason to exist is to support infantry? Althought, I hate being called Infantry, "QUEEN of Battle."

HeavyArty wrote:

Thanks M1Garand.    LPT319 wrote:  crockett wrote:  I 'll take the opinion of someone who has thier hand on the hardware over "scholars' flipping through books any day. Steve   I doubt anyone has their hands on this piece of equipment. Just because one is a artillery officer today that is an OC at NTC doesn't make them an expert. The debate is comical. Don't start with your crap again buddy.  We already know you have a deep seeded problem that needs professional attention.

What crap? Its my opinion, do you have a problem with that?

Professional attention?! Well at least I didn't get caught picking on a dude with dyslexia. That was classic.

"As for comment made by LTP319 "Just because one is a artillery officer today that is an OC at NTC doesn't make them an expert.",  yes, Heavyarty may not be an "Expert" or may not have all the knowledge in the world (afterall, no one is perfect), however, fact is that he is a trained FA officer and is part of the finest unit in the U.S. Army."

Im a trained FA officer (YG94) and I wouldn't call Operations Group, NTC the finest unit in the U.S. Army.

" Just keep in mind that in order to become an FA officer, you need to go through rigorous training (starts from FAOBC, which is longer, harder and have more wash out rate than any other OBCs).  FA officers are expert mathmaticians, scientists, weathermen, astrologists, historians and infantry tactics.  NTC is a place where we train our troops and they don't just randomly select anyone to train our troops."

FAOBC and OAC are jokes. NTC, JRTC, and JMRC state they are all selective. Heck I had branch begging me to go there. But sitting in the freaking desert wasn't appealing after OEF so I went to JMRC.   

"I'm not taking anyone's side and saying who's wrong or who's right.  However, I can say that Heavyarty is not talking out of his a$$ and if I'm in a situation to command a rifle company, I'd depend my life on this "Artillery Officer that is an OC at NTC" without any hegitation."

Apples and oranges. I seriously doubt he has any hands on experience and is therefore rummaging through some text book for his info. Take his pic for instance and his screen name "Heavy Arty." An M109A6 is not heavily artillery. By all definitions it is considered a medium artillery piece just as the M119 is a light artillery piece. The only heavy artillery in the US inventory is the M270 MLRS.

Anyway this little tiff is laughable. Best wishes and keep your feet and knees together. BTW, when were you at Bragg? I was there from 1999-2003.

m1garand wrote:

Field gun VS Howitzer.....  155mm Paladins engaged enemy tanks (direct fire) and destroying them as well.  Germans used their 88mm guns as AAA, ATA, as well as indirect fire missions as well.

I remember Larkhill (UK) Artillery Open semi-annual Days, where one 'party trick' was to use an M109 in indirect, high trajectory mode, fire 1 round, the drop barrel horizontal to direct fire mode, fire another round, then watch as both shells sinultaneously hit the target!

Another 'party trick'  was to engage tank hulks directly, with 155's 105's & even British MK2 25-pounders (Mk2's had muzzle brake & combination direct/indirect fire sights)

After many years the hulks, mostly ww2 scrap & some centurians looked like collanders.

BUT, the most spectacular was the launch of the last 'Honest John' missile in British service. Fired from well behind & to right of the public arena, over targets to Impact Area somewhere towards warminster! Warhead was inert, rocket was not!

Sadly, due to defence cuts this once annual event isn't even 4-yearly anymore, doh!

Jon UK (Son of a Gunner!)

Wow, can't you feel the love in this thread, SHEESH!  LOL

Anyway, just was reading the combined arms stuff, who is the greatest on the battlefield, yadda yadda yadda, and was reminded of my days at Ft. Benning when I was there for basic training.   We were standing in line at the DFAC, when a drill SGT made everyone who was not infantry sit down, and then taunted us with, "see how the infantry towers over all of you other pukes." 

To which I responded, "but drill sgt, I am a medic and I will be the last one standing over you."  I got my butt smoked big time that day.  Needless to say, I learned to keep my big trap shut! LOL

armydogdoc wrote:

Wow, can't you feel the love in this thread, SHEESH!  LOL Anyway, just was reading the combined arms stuff, who is the greatest on the battlefield, yadda yadda yadda, and was reminded of my days at Ft. Benning when I was there for basic training.   We were standing in line at the DFAC, when a drill SGT made everyone who was not infantry sit down, and then taunted us with, "see how the infantry towers over all of you other pukes."  To which I responded, "but drill sgt, I am a medic and I will be the last one standing over you."  I got my butt smoked big time that day.  Needless to say, I learned to keep my big trap shut! LOL