An interesting and complex subject, Andy, and I agree with Ray: there's too much information in print to include in this thread. Still, this is a good place to start.

I'd be happy to answer any questions I'm able, though I'm no UH-1 expert. I did fly the A and B models in flight school as trainers, and flew the UH-1C in Vietnam. I was with Alpha Troop, 7th Squadron, 17th Air Cavalry, based at Camp Enari in Pleiku in 1967, and most of our C-models were armed with the XM-21 weapons sub-systems. (General Electric GAU-2B/A miniguns x 2, 2.75 inch FFAR rocket launchers (cluster-tube type) x 2, and two bungee-mounted M60s for door guns. Several of our aircraft had the rocket launchers, no miniguns, but instead the XM-5 40mm grenade launcher turret on the nose. For information on this unit see: http://www.ruthlessriders.net/

For some amusement you can look into: http://aircavalry17.tripod.com/steinbrunnltr.htm

After 7 months I was transferred to the 189th Assault Helicopter Company (Ghostriders) at Camp Holloway, also in Pleiku, and there I flew the UH-1H. For more information on this unit see: http://www.189thahc.org/

Best of luck to you rotorheads,

--Bob

Hello Gents,

I was a doorgunner with C Co., 227AH Bn 1st Air Cav 1969 beginning of '70 flying out of Phuoc Vinh.  Fireball included one of my Hueys, Nevada Gambler, as one of their subjects.  Joseph really researched his decals, from actual photos as well as interviewing crewmembers.  For that matter, a photo is worth 1,000 memories because the mind fades a lot faster than photos!

A couple of things that caught my attn in this thread:

Early Huey gunners' M-60s hung down 'free' on a bungee cord.  Later, came the pintle mount.

I always thought the 'D' and 'H' looked the same, that the only difference was a more powerful engine.  I heard that from a Bell employee.

Never say never.  Helo pilots and crew were all volunteers and a bunch of wild and crazy guys that did a lot of wild and crazy things.  For example, the VN Helo Pilots Assoc Calendar's featured photo for Feb 2007 shows a B model with napalm.

I learned that different things happened at different times in different places.  i.e.  I don't know anybody that sat on their helmet.  I don't know anybody that could sit on their helmet for hours at a time!  On the other hand, I remember 'supply' coming around the flight line one day offering flak vests and being macho 19 year olds we refused them.  I remember too that my pilot that day took the one I refused, and dropped it down into the clear chin bubble for protection.

As far as the C-ration can ammo feed, we all used it, as your ammo belt would be flapping around somewhat, even if you tried to steady it with your other hand.  A little sprue or rod depending on the scale model is easy enough.  The ink would have worn off so just paint it OD.

The passenger/cargo compartment seats could be rearranged however you wanted because the 'seats' were simply heavy fabric on a tubular frame.  There were 'circles' embedded into the floor that had multiple uses, and some - not as many - on the ceiling.  One was for the tubular frame 'legs' to clip into the floor.  The ones on the cieling were where the 'poles' mounted top and bottom.  The poles had rectangular braces on them, that we hung smoke grenades on.  Revell had released a Huey slick and a Huey Gunship.  The slick had these seats - you wouldn't have to build a thing.  I think Panda also released their kit as a slick and a gunship.

The Huey could take a lickin and keep on tickin.  In addition to patching holes from bullets or shrapnel with small patches touched up with zinc chromate green paint, we often would replace a panel altogether.  If you see a windshield or chin bubble framed in whitish grey, that's the unpainted fiberglass.  I joke with my IPMS chapter members that the correct shade of OD was 'checkerboard.'  One panel would be brand new semi gloss brownish OD, another dull flat Brown, another greenish, and so on for an almost checkerboard effect.  That's a little exaggeratted but gives the impression!

What else?  Rather than take things for granted, do you know the roof windows above the pilot and copilot are tinted green?  There are a few brands of paint that have a 'transparent green' you can simply spray the parts.

The crew figures that came with the Panda Huey were also available as a figure set from DML (?) which came with I believe, only one pintle mounted M-60 and one bungee cord.  You'd have to buy a 2nd set for two.  Or there's the Cobra Co. accessory.  They also have the armor plates for the pilots' seats.

We usually carried a tool box, a water can and a case of c-rations in the forward part of the passenger area, just behind the center console, with a seat belt going through it all and fastened at each end to the floor so they didn't fly out the doors (there were 'rings' in those circular indents in the floor).

We flew with our cargo doors off.  I've seen others that just flew with them open all the time.

Most the walls and ceilings were covered with a 'sound absorbing' (it sure as hell wasn't soundproof!) grey quilted fabric that had snaps, and snapped onto the wall.  It had cutouts where there was the box to plug in to the radios (cieling),,, I've seen slicks flying without all these panels fastened properly or missing some.

We wedged our M-16 or other personal weapon between our seat and the wall.  In spite of regulations to the contrary, some guys had a shotgun or a Tommy Gun (that they bought or had sent from home!)...

OK, I smell something burning.  I've been thinking too long!  Time for me to call it a night - and go back there.

Start asking questions and I'll answer them best I can.  Just think - the 1/72 modelers have to scratchbuild most of this.  There's no Cobra or other company producing parts in that scale.

Clear right! 

HowieB

Thanks alot for that Howie, there's some realy great info there, another Air Cav vet i realy appreciate you vietnam vets contributing to these posts, its great to have info on the hueys from the guys that served in them and had first hand experience.

 I always wondered what the quilted fabric was for, makes sense now though, i have painted it grey in my model as most people do but i have noticed that in most of the huey pictures it looks a greenish color!

 I have seen pictures of a huey with its right chin bubble and windshield framed in grey it looked a right mess lol. Great story about the flak vest in the chin bubble i'd do exactly the same, great for visibility not so great when people are shooting at you!

I have the revell 1/32 UH-1H gunship its not supplied with crew seats as it comes with M6 quad Machine guns and seven pod rocket launchers that according to revell are mounted behind the doors!!! so there is an ammo box for the M6 where the seats should be, so you have 2 options leave off the guns and have a seatless slick or use the forward mounted miniguns included in the kit and turn it into a still seatless UH-1H bushranger gunship lol.

As far as i know the DML crew set are like gold dust now, although everyone seems to have found a set ,they are out of production and i cant find them anywhere.

Thanks again Howie for the guide round the inside of a huey, all the little details are great to know and will help out loads

Andy

Gino

Thanks for that mate, see what you mean about the price plus overseas postage and thats only one m60 mount sorted, i think i'v picked the wrong hobby lol probly be cheaper to put my helo back in the box and start collecting pokemon or teapots

If i get the cobra company mounts, 1 crew kit should do

Andy

BTW, to all of you who (ever) served and your dads who have - thanks and welcome home!

Just a thought - the Ia Drang was the first major action - to the best of my knowledge we only had early Huey B/C models serving as slicks and as gunships at the time.  Probably 'free/bungee' 60's then (and after we shot off enough rotors they figured we needed those pintle mounts with 'stops' built in so we didn't kill ourselves)...

I believe when the D/H's arrived the B/Cs became gunships - I thought until replaced by D/H gunships and then Cobras but a friend of mine flew gunships B/C's long after I came home - 1972.  So a logical, chronological - order - is not logical!

FYI there's a civilian group in GA (?) who have rebuilt several Hueys and Cobras and go around to a lot of the airshows giving Huey rides for $50 and giving a performance.  I don't know if they're starred in movies yet.

Howie

Howie,

WELCOME HOME!

I've been a bit busy with remodeling the house on my days off from work so haven't been online much.  Saw your previous note about the large ammo can for your M-60.  We had them too and they were the "mini-gun" cans of 7.62 ammon.  I had a Dr Pepper can for my "ammo feed".  One of the taller C-Ration cans worked well too.  I was with the 174th AHC up at Chu Lai in the summer of "71".   www.174ahc.org  Your memory isn't too bad! 

Welcome home, Mel!

You've got my favorite shirt on in your photo - please tell the guys what it says!

And much of memory is going, going...  but the photos and notes I took help jog my memory now, plus "I was just there last night..."

Ray - sorry, my unit didn't have that gun mounting and I'm not familiar with it exceot from building models, I know they used it on Chinooks and the Marines used it on their H-34s, or something similar.

Gino - never say never, trust me!  My Co. had a D/H (H I think) gunship.  Even though C/227 AHB 1^st Cav Div was a slick company, one of our duties was for two ships to fly up to a neighboring base camp and stay overnight.  One had a makeshift temporary hook up with parachute flares, the other H was hooked up as a gunship.  When (not if) the base camp took incoming overnight, we'd scramble.  When we saw mortar tube or rocket tube flashes we dropped flares and the gunship let them have it.  They had a huge spotlight and a minigun next to it in the ship's lefthand open cargo doorway.  I believe a starlight (night vision) scope was mounted above the minigun.  Everything on the gunship was bolted to the floor - the gun on a tripod mount.  I thought it was something they rigged up just in my co. but one of the Sqn books has a picture of one on the ground, with a gunner kneeling behind the gun.

Matter of fact I like the Sqn books a lot for reference.

Nice photos, Gino! 

Also in researching, watch out for errors.  You can't even watch History Channel w/o slapping your forehead and saying, ‘what'd they say?'  And you never know with published stuff - ofttimes somebody picks up what somebody else put out and has no idea it was in error, so they pass along the error forever more.

I think you said it earlier, Gino - just build and be happy, don't count rivets... or something to that effect.  I couldn't agree more!

Mel - how young and dumb were your guys?  We called the bullet proof vets (the hard, stiff curved ones) ‘chicken plates' and hence the macho, ‘I don't need no stinkin chicken plate!'  Did you guys have more brains by 1971?

Clear right!

Howie

Hey There

Here is the UH-1D/H Gunship version we are talking about

They where called UH-1D/H "Nighthawk"

I have seen pics with them having .50 cal M60 and also Miniguns with the Light mounted aswell ( not all on the same bird, but in different configuration).

HTH

Robert

---

" SUCH IS LIFE "

Has anyone got a picture of the control panel on the ceiling in the UH-1H cockpit?

Andy

Melgyver wrote:

For those of you that don't know the the famous quote by Joe Galloway during an interview for a "Huey" special on the History Channel a few years ago refering to Helicopter Pilots and Crew Members, "They were a special breed of madmen.  One of God's lunatics!".   It was "adopted" by the Vietnam Helicopter Crew Members Association and it is one of their shirts I'm wearing in the "avtar".  If the "shoe fits"!  Heh, heh!  I have my 174th "Witch Doctor" patch pined on it also.

Bruce Crandall will receive his Medal of Honor on 2-26-2007 for his actions in the Ia Drang Valley , it is being upgraded from the DSC. Ed Freeman got his Medal of Honor in 2001 for the same action.

---