I went to a presentation by "Dusty" Kleiss' (she pronounced it "Kleese") daughter where they showed some video interviews with him.

He really hated McClusky. Kleiss was a career dive bomber pilot, I think enlisted in 1936. McClusky came aboard Enterprise in VF-6, only to later be named to lead SB-6.

Kleiss thought that they went too far at too fast an airspeed to ever return to ship, and were only lucky to find her when they were either ditched or flying dry.

Movie looks flashy but fun.

GMorrison

I went to a presentation by "Dusty" Kleiss' (she pronounced it "Kleese") daughter where they showed some video interviews with him.

He really hated McClusky. Kleiss was a career dive bomber pilot, I think enlisted in 1936. McClusky came aboard Enterprise in VF-6, only to later be named to lead SB-6.

Kleiss thought that they went too far at too fast an airspeed to ever return to ship, and were only lucky to find her when they were either ditched or flying dry.

Movie looks flashy but fun.

 

 

I’ve read McCluskey’s and Best’s interviews on their role in the battle. Each tells in a favorable way for themselves without damning the other, but leaving inference as to the others’ actions open to the reader. 

Call those minutes of history, blind luck, good fortune, divine intervention, or synchronicity, they happened.

The movie does look like it has potential. As usual, the CGI folks look to go overboard. But I think between this and the also upcoming ”Dauntless”, as well as some recent Japanese movies, we will have some new takes in cinema on this battle.

If you don't mind, recap the Japanese movie titles.

Dauntless looks pretty terrific to me. My kind of story like chapter two of the Nordhoff and Hall Trilogy about Bligh and his officers in the open boat.

The Kleiss interview is online. I'll look for it, it's pretty entertaining.

As far as why it went the way it did, a very productive discussion. My overview is that the Japanese just took too many risks and inevitably suffered for the resultant glitches.

I don't think Walter Lord quite has it correct, although his account is pretty valuable.

And of course maybe McClusky had it right. The Devil's math. Whats a couple of dozen aviators and a dozen aircraft lost when you destroy the enemies fleet? Maybe that last 30 minutes in search of the carriers took a fighter pilots mentality.

Cool!  Looking forward to that one.  One of my brothers finished basic training and came home on leave and we went to see Midway in sensurround.  Opening footage under the wing of a B-25 Doolittle raider ready launch.  I remeber the seats shaking.  I imagine my 7.1 surround will deliver when it comes out to rent!

I recently read a book, The Midway Inquest. In that, the author certainly took issue with Shattered Sword and the premise of the Japanese being doomed to fail. The author there detailed how the unintended timing made the difference in success or failure to the US side in a most convincing presentation of factual points. 

No, neither Lord, nor Prange, has it quite correct. But then again, neither does Shattered Sword. Each well researched book on the battle sheds more light on that morning. One I still need to read is “The First Team”.

The recent Japanese movies that include Midway portions, but are not solely focused upon the battle are “The Eternal Zero”, which is essentially the tale of a Zero pilot thru the war,  and “The Admiral” (I think that is the English name for the film), about Admiral Yamamoto. 

Tojo72

I would enjoy watching any of these movies as long as it's not like Pearl Harbor.

 

Exactly.... from what I’m reading, they are going with the real historical people, as opposed to “inspired by actual events” people of that movie...

stikpusher

 

 

Tojo72

I would enjoy watching any of these movies as long as it's not like Pearl Harbor.

 

 

 

 

Exactly.... from what I’m reading, they are going with the real historical people, as opposed to “inspired by actual events” people of that movie...

 

Was channel surfing past Pearl Harbor,still cant believe they had the Japanese bombing modern US warships,those scenes were awful,what were they thinking.

Plus all the scenes "borrowed" from Tora,Tora,Tora.

The thing that often bothers me about CG aircraft is that while the aircraft itself looks fine, the kinematics are seldom correct.  The aircraft bounce around in ways that real aircraft don't, and often show the planes during combat staying in a closer formation than reality.

Sort of like movie spacecraft flying through an asteroid belt.  If you were in an asteroid belt for real, the next nearest ateriod would probably look like a star, not a resolved object.

Kind of makes me miss the days when folks like Paul Mantz and Frank Tallman flew converted Texans in the movies.

CG just doesn't much do it for me.

GMorrison

Kind of makes me miss the days when folks like Paul Mantz and Frank Tallman flew converted Texans in the movies.

CG just doesn't much do it for me.

 

Oh definitely! Compare Battle of Britain or Blue Max to Pearl Harbor or Flyboys. 

But considering that there are but a handful of airworthy SBDs and zero TBDs above the ocean floor today, sometimes we have to go with the CGI. The carriers look beautiful in the previews. 

The main thing is for the CGI nerds to dial back on the stuff they are trying to show in a single viewpoint. 

It looks interesting for sure, but I hope it's not like Pearl Harbor. 

'From the director of Independence Day'

'Directed by Roland Emmerich' 

You pretty much lost me right there... 

He has done some good movies- but his track record recently hasn't been anything to brag about. Looks like 'Pearl Harbor' with more CGI.

Gamera

'From the director of Independence Day'

'Directed by Roland Emmerich' 

 

You pretty much lost me right there... 

He has done some good movies- but his track record recently hasn't been anything to brag about. Looks like 'Pearl Harbor' with more CGI.

 

There is hope... far more than if Michael Bay was at the helm.... or Jar Jar Abrams. Now if it was Ridley Scott or Peter Jackson, the odds would be more favorable for a great film. 

I think the movie looks really entertaining.

On another forum (non-modeling site), I am a part of a thread discussing this movie.  The consensus seems to be that (a) Emmerich has never made anything worth seeing and (b) the CGI is garbage.  I disagree with the first of those.  Independence Day was a really good one, and I think The Patriot is underrated despite its loose connection to actual history.  This version of Midway looks, at least, like the producers have studied some of the history of the battle by including correct aircraft like the TBD Devastator.

So that gets me to the CGI.  It seems the producers have a few options for depicting such a battle.  Option A would be prohibitively expensive - find a few Devastators (and other aircraft, like a Val or Kate, not the fake ones we see flying at US airshows every year), restore them to flying condition and use them in the movie.  And with that expense, they would never be able to accurately depict the fate of Torpedo Squadron 6.

Option B - build a bunch of models like in Star Wars

Option C - use CGI to depict the aircraft involved in the battle.  

B could be a good option, certainly, but I think Hollywood just goes with CGI because it doesn't involve the expense of a model shop.  Not really sure why CGI is so favored as I'm not involved in the business of making movies.

So does the CGI in the preview look real, or not?  I'm really not able to definitely state that the producers have overdone a Dauntless dive bombing on a Jap ship, as I've never done it.  To my eyes it all looks quite good.  The only thing I'd perhaps have some mis-givings over is the shot of Zeros strafing guys on the ground by flying between buildings and beneath power lines and palm trees.  Yeah, I doubt that.  But I'm willing to overlook that if they make a movie that actually presents the battle as it unfolded with more-or-less accurate aircraft.  No F6F Hellcats ditching in the sea as in the original Midway movie (or the even more hilarious F9F Panther nosecone rolling out of the conflagration of Charleton Heston's crash against the carrier deck in a Dauntless).

Count me as seeing this opening weekend (and it's good timing in that the Aggies have a bye week the weekend that this one comes out, so no college football conflicts for me).

You make good points gentlemen. 

To be honest I guess I'm a bit unfairly biased againt Emmerich. He's the guy that directed and wrote the screenplay for Hollywood's 1998 'Godzilla' aka the one with Matthew Broderick. As a kaiju fan I hate this movie. And Emmerich's attitude that Godzilla was stupid and that he was going to reinvent the whole thing rankled me... 

And to clarify I love CGI. The whole idea of using the correct aircraft instead of an abomination of stock footage like the original 'Midway' fills me with glee. The problem is as it was pointed out above with 'Flyboys' is since the aircraft aren't real there is a habit of having them pull off manuvers that no real plane could ever do.

And typical movie excess. King Kong fought a T.rex in the original movie. In Peter Jackson's version he fought three. Why have five Zeros when we can just as easy stick fifty or even five hundred in a scene? 'Star Wars' at most had a dozen spacecraft on the screen at one time and most people would agree that it was better than the prequels and Disney movies with a zillion things zipping around at one time. More stuff on the screen does not make a better movie. 

Anyway, thanks Stikpusher for posting this. I'd not heard about the movie. And Aggieman, I'm going to cross my fingers and hope it's a good film. 

It should be intertaining.

lawdog114

I’m glad they are doing WW2 stuff again on the big screen. Now we need a remake of the Battle of Britain!

I am with you on this Joe. I would love to see a remake of the Battle of Britain. And, and "A Bridge too Far"

The Drifter

 

 

lawdog114

I’m glad they are doing WW2 stuff again on the big screen. Now we need a remake of the Battle of Britain!

 

 

I am with you on this Joe. I would love to see a remake of the Battle of Britain. And, and "A Bridge too Far"

 

No way on Bridge Too Far. They got it right the first time, and any remake would screw it up.... 

stikpusher

No way on Bridge Too Far. They got it right the first time, and any remake would screw it up.... 

I fully agree with you Carlos...it is in my Top 5 WWII movies. I just would like to see something like that remade. I love WWII movies so it would be nice if they made more of them. And I could not agree with you more about today's Directors and Producers remaking classics and absolutely destroying them.

stikpusher

 

 

The Drifter

 

 

lawdog114

I’m glad they are doing WW2 stuff again on the big screen. Now we need a remake of the Battle of Britain!

 

 

I am with you on this Joe. I would love to see a remake of the Battle of Britain. And, and "A Bridge too Far"

 

 

 

 

No way on Bridge Too Far. They got it right the first time, and any remake would screw it up.... 

 

I should post this on favorite movie lines thread

Robert Redford in Bridge too Far

Hail Mary full of grace

Hail Mary full of grace

Hail Mary full of grace

One of my favorite scenes

Hey old fart here- no way on Battle of Britain. Those were real bf-109s, although with different engines. Those were real He-111's.

Real Spitfire.

Oh, and Sue York running around in nothing but an Oxsfordcloth bottundown?

Shadup already.

In the defence of 'Pearl Harbor' it did have a young Kate Beckinsale in '40s era hair and dress... 

Roooowwwwrrrrrrrrrr.............. 

Would post a photo but the FSM staff told us not to post cheesecake so use your own search engine... 

GMorrison

I went to a presentation by "Dusty" Kleiss' (she pronounced it "Kleese") daughter where they showed some video interviews with him.

He really hated McClusky. Kleiss was a career dive bomber pilot, I think enlisted in 1936. McClusky came aboard Enterprise in VF-6, only to later be named to lead SB-6.

Kleiss thought that they went too far at too fast an airspeed to ever return to ship, and were only lucky to find her when they were either ditched or flying dry...

I bet he's grateful he wasn't part of the Hornet's airgroup.

stikpusher

I recently read a book, The Midway Inquest. In that, the author certainly took issue with Shattered Sword and the premise of the Japanese being doomed to fail...

I don't get that as the premise of "Shattered Sword", that the Japanese were doomed to fail.  The authors refute the "incredible victory" premise that Fuchida sold, but they list factors on both sides that contributed to the results, including mistakes, elements of luck, and elements of heroism.  Fate isn't a factor that they cite.

Gamera

In the defence of 'Pearl Harbor' it did have a young Kate Beckinsale in '40s era hair and dress... 

Roooowwwwrrrrrrrrrr..............  

Yeah, if only they had put Susannah York in some 40’s hair for her stockings & suspenders scene in Battle of Britain.... but then again, Longest Day and Tora! Tora! Tora! did the same for their female role hair styles... 

”DONT YOU YELL AT ME, MR. WARRICK!”

From what I’ve read of the movie, Lt Best of Bombing 6 is gonna be one of the central characters. Just a guess, the female shown in the previews is gonna be his wife in base housing at the time of the attack... again, just guessing based off what is in the preview, not a love story per se, but since the Enterprise was at sea at the time of the attack, it’s a way to incorporate the attack into the film.

"From Here To Eternity"- double trouble Deborah Kerr and Donna Reed.

Oh yeah, I really need to go back and rewatch those classics again...

I think I'll pass on Emmerich's "Midway".  I may watch it, once it passes to broadcast.  I just expect there to be too much dramaticization added, for my taste.

And yeah, his "Godzilla" was God-awful.  I wanted to get up and walk out of the theater, but I thought of what Geddy Lee once said-"Ten bucks is ten bucks, eh."  I enjoyed some of the character actors, including Clyde Kusatsu, and even the principals did the best they could with the dreck they were given.  But it's just a bad, bad movie, not worthy to be included in discussions of Godzilla.

Life long Godzilla fan speaking here ... I kid you not, there is a closeup shot of the lizard that I seriously thought looked strikingly like Jay Leno. That movie was not a Godzilla flick; it was a giant lizard movie with a bit of Aliens thrown in at the end.

I love your guys Godzilla passion.   

After GMs comment on the battle of Britain flick I did some IMDb'ing and the trivia section is pretty cool.  GM is spot on.  One note said after all the aircraft acquisitions the studio was the 35th largest airforce in the world and Adolf Galland was the technical advisor!  Great movie.  Sorry for the tangent but it's a great read:  

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0064072/trivia

Thanks.

A couple of comments.

I had a good friend Who bought six of the 109s from the Spanish AF. Never came to much, I think he traded them for a super car.

I had a good friend at work who was a pilot in 303. His daughter is a close 

Trailer didn’t do much for me. The CGI looked too glossy and then saw who was directing it that explains it. This is one I’ll wait for reviews to come out before committing to watching. I actually hope it turns out to be good as there’s not many movies coming out anymore that I care for.

Armor, in Bridge Too Far, I did not mind the Leopards as panzers. I think it was supposed to be a Panther rather than a Tiger. It sure beat almost every previous war movies Panzer, except for Kelly’s Heroes Tiger and Is Paris Burning‘s? Panther. 

GS, in the previews for both Midway & Dauntless, the CGI looks too glossy. I hope that they take care of that for the actual movie. 

I'll probably go and see it, but might wait till it hits the premium channels.

Aggieman

Life long Godzilla fan speaking here ... I kid you not, there is a closeup shot of the lizard that I seriously thought looked strikingly like Jay Leno. That movie was not a Godzilla flick; it was a giant lizard movie with a bit of Aliens thrown in at the end.

And "Jurassic Park"-the juvenile Godzillas were like raptors.

keavdog

I love your guys Godzilla passion.   

After GMs comment on the battle of Britain flick I did some IMDb'ing and the trivia section is pretty cool.  GM is spot on.  One note said after all the aircraft acquisitions the studio was the 35th largest airforce in the world and Adolf Galland was the technical advisor!  Great movie.  Sorry for the tangent but it's a great read:  

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0064072/trivia 

There are some mistranslations in the subtitles, too.  Or maybe they're better described as typos.

But it's still an enjoyable movie, a good example of historical drama.

Wasn't the Tiger in Kelly's Heroes a T-34 in disguise? Some real Shermans there.

If you ever saw Cross of Iron, there are a bunch of T-34/85s running around.

GMorrison

Wasn't the Tiger in Kelly's Heroes a T-34 in disguise? Some real Shermans there.

If you ever saw Cross of Iron, there are a bunch of T-34/85s running around.

the Baron

 

 

Aggieman

Life long Godzilla fan speaking here ... I kid you not, there is a closeup shot of the lizard that I seriously thought looked strikingly like Jay Leno. That movie was not a Godzilla flick; it was a giant lizard movie with a bit of Aliens thrown in at the end.

 

 

 

And "Jurassic Park"-the juvenile Godzillas were like raptors.

 

That is one of the main things I remember from the movie, it was more a 'Jurassic Park' wantabe than 'Godzilla'. 

That and Jean Reno's Elvis impersonation... 

Oh come on now, Jean Reno is always enjoyable in a movie.... 

stikpusher

Oh come on now, Jean Reno is always enjoyable in a movie.... 

 

Actually I've only seen a few of Reno's movies but the ones I've seen he was a big positive. I liked his Elvis impersonation, a little weird but it was one of the best things in the movie. 

The 2nd trailer for the movie is out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_84EimN2HCg

The CGI is strong in this one!

Gary

Veterans Day, a fitting weekend for this movie to be released.

I'm about to be brutal about my thought of this movie and that second trailer just confirmed that I will not be paying money to see it.  I'll just play a few rounds of World of Warships on my big TV.  Why pay money to see a 2 hr video game with the story line from Peal Harbor.

The story probably goes like this,

Boy enters manhood with flashbacks of his abusive father

Boy meets girl

Boy sleeps with girl while Pearl Harbor gets bombed

Boy bombs Tokyo

Girl is pregnant

Boy comes home wounded

Baby somehow is now 3 yrs old

Boy flies the SBD like its an X-Wing fighter and becomes an ace shooting down all the Zeros that attacked him

Boy doesn't get along with the cigar chomping admiral who swears a lot and seems to prove that the Admiral cannot make any decisions without him

Boy screams and swears a lot

Boy bombs big Japanese carrier

Boy comes home a hero

Baby is not his

It was his best friends who took a bullet for him from a German sniper

Because boy and best friend also fought in the battle of Britian and at Dunkirk, in that order

I want to write for Hollywood, where all I need to do is write 25 minutes worth of dialog so that the rest of the 95 mintues can be reserved for special effect explosions, fighting, swearing, and in bed hanky panky.

At least this time the SBDs are the correct type and not AT6s, and the CG artists replicated Yorktown Class carriers instead using of a digitized picture of a modernized Esssex class.

Woody Harrelson as Chester Nimitz sounds about as bad as Alec Baldwin playing Doolittle.  

For those who haven't seen it yet, there is an excellent youtube video covering the battle  from a japanese perspective. Covers strategy and tactics, with some map animation:

The Battle of Midway 1942: Told from the Japanese Perspective

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bd8_vO5zrjo

It's quite interesting, about 40 minutes long. Unfortunately this is part 1 of 2, and part 2 hasn't been finished yet.

scottrc

I'm about to be brutal about my thought of this movie and that second trailer just confirmed that I will not be paying money to see it.  I'll just play a few rounds of World of Warships on my big TV.  Why pay money to see a 2 hr video game with the story line from Peal Harbor.

The story probably goes like this,

Boy enters manhood with flashbacks of his abusive father

Boy meets girl

Boy sleeps with girl while Pearl Harbor gets bombed

Boy bombs Tokyo

Girl is pregnant

Boy comes home wounded

Baby somehow is now 3 yrs old

Boy flies the SBD like its an X-Wing fighter and becomes an ace shooting down all the Zeros that attacked him

Boy doesn't get along with the cigar chomping admiral who swears a lot and seems to prove that the Admiral cannot make any decisions without him

Boy screams and swears a lot

Boy bombs big Japanese carrier

Boy comes home a hero

Baby is not his

It was his best friends who took a bullet for him from a German sniper

Because boy and best friend also fought in the battle of Britian and at Dunkirk, in that order

I want to write for Hollywood, where all I need to do is write 25 minutes worth of dialog so that the rest of the 95 mintues can be reserved for special effect explosions, fighting, swearing, and in bed hanky panky.

At least this time the SBDs are the correct type and not AT6s, and the CG artists replicated Yorktown Class carriers instead using of a digitized picture of a modernized Esssex class.

Woody Harrelson as Chester Nimitz sounds about as bad as Alec Baldwin playing Doolittle.  

 

I don’t know... having just re read The Big E, I recognize many snippets shown in the previews. It looks like they will be telling the story from the perspective of certain Enterprise aviators, along with that of the Hawaii Intel and Midway base. Yeah, a lot of the CGI looks over the top and more like video games, but hey, it’s not like here is much of the actual ships and planes left in reality. 

Personally I thought Bruce Willis would have been a much better choice to play Doolittle. He bears something of a resemblance to Jimmy Doolittle. I’m hopeful that this will not be the Michael Bay Pearl Harbor goat rope in the way that the Midway story is told. And just maybe these actors can pull off their roles. 

Gamera

 

 

stikpusher

Oh come on now, Jean Reno is always enjoyable in a movie.... 

 

 

 

 

Actually I've only seen a few of Reno's movies but the ones I've seen he was a big positive. I liked his Elvis impersonation, a little weird but it was one of the best things in the movie. 

 

”The Professional” and “Wasabi”!

Real G

 

 

Gamera

 

 

stikpusher

Oh come on now, Jean Reno is always enjoyable in a movie.... 

 

 

 

 

Actually I've only seen a few of Reno's movies but the ones I've seen he was a big positive. I liked his Elvis impersonation, a little weird but it was one of the best things in the movie. 

 

 

 

 

”The Professional” and “Wasabi”!

 

Both waaay better than “Pearl Harbor”.

But I did enjoy “Midway” back in 1976.  I also watched “Baa Baa Black Sheep” on TV.  I didn’t think it was quality proramming, but I tuned in every week.  I wonder if they did a reboot, would they have an enemy pilot named “Riceball”?

”Having twubble Boy-ing-ton?”

Ah a different time.  Despite being a person of Japanese descent, I found the Hollywood cartoon caricatures hilarious.  My favorite was the mini sub skipper in “Gilligan’s Island” - he was a dead ringer for my neighbor!

I just watched the current Midway trailer, and ugh the kinematics of the CGI is awful. The Zeros streaking down the street looked like it belonged in the John Belushi film “1941”.

G I hear you about the CGI visuals of the aircraft. The gamer boys seem to be running that side of the house. 

But looking at the cast, I am hopeful about the script writing, as most of the names listed are actual historical charecters from the battle. It sure does look to be that most of the avaitors are from the Enterprise. And the inclusion of Cdr Brockman of USS Nautilus is a pleasant surprise.

This is from the Wiki page on the movie.

• Ed Skrein as Lieutenant *** Best
• Patrick Wilson as Lieutenant CommanderEdwin T. Layton
• Luke Evans as Lieutenant Commander Wade McClusky
• Aaron Eckhart as Lieutenant Colonel Jimmy Doolittle
• Nick Jonas as Aviation Machinist Mate Bruno Gaido
• Mandy Moore as Anne Best
• Darren Criss as Lieutenant CommanderEugene Lindsey
• Woody Harrelson as Admiral Chester Nimitz
• Dennis Quaid as Vice Admiral William "Bull" Halsey
• Jake Weber as Rear Admiral Raymond Spruance
• Brennan Brown as Commander Joseph Rochefort
• Alexander Ludwig as Lieutenant Roy Pearce
• Tadanobu Asano as Rear Admiral Tamon Yamaguchi
• Keean Johnson as Chief Aviation Radioman James Murray
• Luke Kleintank as Lieutenant Clarence Earle Dickinson
• Jun Kunimura as Vice Admiral Chuichi Nagumo
• Etsushi Toyokawa as Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
• Brandon Sklenar as Ensign George Gay
• James Carpinello as Lieutenant CommanderWilliam Brockman
• Jake Manley as Ensign Willie West^[2]

Strange, isn't it, that the commander of the entire US task force (Admiral Fletcher) is not listed?

Gary

GAF

Strange, isn't it, that the commander of the entire US task force (Admiral Fletcher) is not listed?

Gary

 

None of the USS Yorktown personalities are listed by name: aviators, ship’s crew, or Fletcher‘s staff. 

stikpusher

G I hear you about the CGI visuals of the aircraft. The gamer boys seem to be running that side of the house. 

But looking at the cast, I am hopeful about the script writing, as most of the names listed are actual historical charecters from the battle. It sure does look to be that most of the avaitors are from the Enterprise. And the inclusion of Cdr Brockman of USS Nautilus is a pleasant surprise.

This is from the Wiki page on the movie.

• Ed Skrein as Lieutenant *** Best
• Patrick Wilson as Lieutenant CommanderEdwin T. Layton
• Luke Evans as Lieutenant Commander Wade McClusky
• Aaron Eckhart as Lieutenant Colonel Jimmy Doolittle
• Nick Jonas as Aviation Machinist Mate Bruno Gaido
• Mandy Moore as Anne Best
• Darren Criss as Lieutenant CommanderEugene Lindsey
• Woody Harrelson as Admiral Chester Nimitz
• Dennis Quaid as Vice Admiral William "Bull" Halsey
• Jake Weber as Rear Admiral Raymond Spruance
• Brennan Brown as Commander Joseph Rochefort
• Alexander Ludwig as Lieutenant Roy Pearce
• Tadanobu Asano as Rear Admiral Tamon Yamaguchi
• Keean Johnson as Chief Aviation Radioman James Murray
• Luke Kleintank as Lieutenant Clarence Earle Dickinson
• Jun Kunimura as Vice Admiral Chuichi Nagumo
• Etsushi Toyokawa as Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
• Brandon Sklenar as Ensign George Gay
• James Carpinello as Lieutenant CommanderWilliam Brockman
• Jake Manley as Ensign Willie West^[2]

 

 I will agree with you in that this movie will depend a lot on the script and directing. That is a lot of talent and interesting characters.  If the script and directing is poor, then this could be a real train wreck.  

I also would like to know why Frank Fletcher is missing from the list.  

scottrc

...  

I also would like to know why Frank Fletcher is missing from the list.  

 

Maybe he will only appear via CGI 

One evening I had the good fortune of having dinner with Gallaher, Kleiss, Gay and a few others. I sure wish I'd taken a tape recorder. It was the first time they had been together since Midway.

I want to see a good SBD dive bombing attack on film--CGI or otherwise. My dad was a dive bomber pilot at the end of WWII.

Andy

GMorrison

Wasn't the Tiger in Kelly's Heroes a T-34 in disguise? Some real Shermans there.

If you ever saw Cross of Iron, there are a bunch of T-34/85s running around.

 

Yep, T-34 chassis with a different turret, you can tell immediately by the tracks/road wheels.  And yeah, Cross of Iron has possibly the BEST use of actual WWII tanks in a  WWII film.

That’s pretty awesome. I would have loved that. Kleiss has a good part in his book about discovering Kaga and Akagi from 10,000 feet with no fighter cover.

He’s no fan of McCluskey, and what happens next is in dispute. But S6 attacks Kaga and Kleiss remembers thinking that all the drama that has led up to this point renders the death and carnage about to occur to be a perfect attack profile.

AHC or History just ran the Midway program the other night.  IIRC, Kleiss is the last surviving US pilot from the battle.  He did some commentary on the program.  Was done about 4-5 years ago I think.

I too would have absolutely loved to have been in on that dinner. Like sitting in the wardroom or ready room with them.

Dusty died in 2016 at the age of 100. His estate reprinted his book "Never Call Me A Hero" in 2017.

I went to a book signing by his daughter Jill earlier this year. She had some good video interviews with her dad.

Thanks for the update GM.  Just ordered out a copy.

scottrc

I'm about to be brutal about my thought of this movie and that second trailer just confirmed that I will not be paying money to see it.  I'll just play a few rounds of World of Warships on my big TV.  Why pay money to see a 2 hr video game with the story line from Peal Harbor.

The story probably goes like this,

Boy enters manhood with flashbacks of his abusive father

Boy meets girl

Boy sleeps with girl while Pearl Harbor gets bombed

Boy bombs Tokyo

Girl is pregnant

Boy comes home wounded

Baby somehow is now 3 yrs old

Boy flies the SBD like its an X-Wing fighter and becomes an ace shooting down all the Zeros that attacked him

Boy doesn't get along with the cigar chomping admiral who swears a lot and seems to prove that the Admiral cannot make any decisions without him

Boy screams and swears a lot

Boy bombs big Japanese carrier

Boy comes home a hero

Baby is not his

It was his best friends who took a bullet for him from a German sniper

Because boy and best friend also fought in the battle of Britian and at Dunkirk, in that order

I want to write for Hollywood, where all I need to do is write 25 minutes worth of dialog so that the rest of the 95 mintues can be reserved for special effect explosions, fighting, swearing, and in bed hanky panky.

At least this time the SBDs are the correct type and not AT6s, and the CG artists replicated Yorktown Class carriers instead using of a digitized picture of a modernized Esssex class.

Woody Harrelson as Chester Nimitz sounds about as bad as Alec Baldwin playing Doolittle.  

 

Yes, looks to have 7 months of elements rolled into it, but going to see it anyway, even if the Midway scenes are only the 15 to 25 minutes.

I already know it probably won't be that factual.....Hollyweird will twist it around and take liberties to make something that will supposedly make money. 

Hmm, after watching this, I'll wait for it to come out on Netflix or Redbox.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOXWSSfbNTo

stikpusher

G I hear you about the CGI visuals of the aircraft. The gamer boys seem to be running that side of the house. 

But looking at the cast, I am hopeful about the script writing, as most of the names listed are actual historical charecters from the battle. It sure does look to be that most of the avaitors are from the Enterprise. And the inclusion of Cdr Brockman of USS Nautilus is a pleasant surprise.

This is from the Wiki page on the movie.

• Ed Skrein as Lieutenant *** Best
• Patrick Wilson as Lieutenant CommanderEdwin T. Layton
• Luke Evans as Lieutenant Commander Wade McClusky
• Aaron Eckhart as Lieutenant Colonel Jimmy Doolittle
• Nick Jonas as Aviation Machinist Mate Bruno Gaido
• Mandy Moore as Anne Best
• Darren Criss as Lieutenant CommanderEugene Lindsey
• Woody Harrelson as Admiral Chester Nimitz
• Dennis Quaid as Vice Admiral William "Bull" Halsey
• Jake Weber as Rear Admiral Raymond Spruance
• Brennan Brown as Commander Joseph Rochefort
• Alexander Ludwig as Lieutenant Roy Pearce
• Tadanobu Asano as Rear Admiral Tamon Yamaguchi
• Keean Johnson as Chief Aviation Radioman James Murray
• Luke Kleintank as Lieutenant Clarence Earle Dickinson
• Jun Kunimura as Vice Admiral Chuichi Nagumo
• Etsushi Toyokawa as Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
• Brandon Sklenar as Ensign George Gay
• James Carpinello as Lieutenant CommanderWilliam Brockman
• Jake Manley as Ensign Willie West^[2]

 

That's an interesting cast. Guess I'm not up on modern movies but I haven't heard of any of them other Quaid, Harrelson, Ed Skrein, and Keean Johnson. The latter two were in 'Alita: Battle Angel'. Really interested in seeing Skrein as he grew up in London and has a very heavy British accent. He's not the first guy to fake a US accent but still interested on how he does here.

"Never Call Me A Hero" is really a good book--

He mentions our dinner and I was relieved to hear that our hospitality was well thought of by those pilots. I wondered about that over the years.

The time with them was over a period of 2 days. Lots of kidding and remembering of flight  training. They were very modest about the battle. Lots of advice to us young guys about military flying. All complained of horrible back problems--the dive bomber guys--from the extreme G pullouts. Dusty sat next to me and in reading his book I could hear his voice again to us young guys. 

George Gay spent the most time with us---along with the Gasoline Chief on Enterprise. I wish I could remember exactly who else was there. Several could not come. Gallaher was very freindly to us all. A great bunch of guys.

One of them lived on a farm near Ft Collins but I can't remember who. I really would like to get a list of names of who was in each squadron from each of the carriers and who the leaders were. Could someone help me with this?

Dusty's book is the next best thing to being with them during that time---get the book! 

Andy 

B-36Andy

 I really would like to get a list of names of who was in each squadron from each of the carriers and who the leaders were. Could someone help me with this? 

I know that I have come across the planes and pilots names for the carrier based squadrons somewhere. But I can't remember where off the top my head right now.

But I can name a few of the Squadron Leaders:

VB-3 Max Leslie

VF-3 John Thach

VT-3 Lance Massey

VS-5 Wally Short

VB-6 D ick Best

VF-6 Jim Gray

VT-6 Gene Lindsey

VS-6 Earl Gallaher 

VT-8 John Waldron

VB-8, VS-8, VF-8 -?

Should be rosters of assigned personel somewhere in the records of each squadron on the USN records.  

Might take awhile and don't know what the $$ would be to dig it out on a request to the Navy.

VS-6

Officers:

LT Wilmer Earl Gallaher CO.

LT Clarence Earle Dickinson Jr.

LT Frank Anthony Patriarca

LT Reginald Rutherford

LT Charles Rollins Ware MIA 6/4/42

LT Edward Thorpe Deacon

LTJG Norman Jack Kleiss

LTJG Benjamin Henry Troemel

LTJG John Norman West

ENS Robert Keith Campbell

ENS ames Campbell Dexter

ENS Cleo John Dobson

ENS Thomas F. Durkin Jr.

Ensign William Edward Hall

ENS Alden Wilbur Hanson

ENS Richard Alonzo Jaccard

ENS John Cady Lough MIA 6/4/42

ENS John Reginald McCarthy

ENS Milford Austin Merrill

ENS Vernon Larsen Micheel

ENS Franklin Woodrow O'Flaherty Captured 6/4/42, executed 6/15/42

ENS Carl David Peiffer MIA 6/4/42

ENS John Quincy Roberst KIA 6/4/42

ENS William Robinson Pittman

ENS Horace Irvin Proulx

ENS Eldor Ernst Rodenburg

ENS James Arnold Shelton MIA 6/4/42

ENS Reid Wentworth Stone

ENS Clarence Earl Vammen Jr. KIA 6/6/42

- Kleiss 2017, Appendix

goldhammer

Should be rosters of assigned personel somewhere in the records of each squadron on the USN records.  

Might take awhile and don't know what the $$ would be to dig it out on a request to the Navy.

 

They exist. Along with the aircraft flown and disposition of aircrew and aircraft.

VS-6

Enlisted Sailors

Thomas Edward Merritt, ACRM

Floyd Delbert Adkins, AMM 2/c

Erwin G. Bailey, AMM 3/c

William Hart Bergin, RM 1/c

Thomas James Bruce, Sea 2/c

Milton Wayne Clarke, AMM 2/c KIA 6/6/42

David Bruce Craig, RM 3/c MIA 6/4/42

Ferdinand Joseph Cupples, RM 1/c

John Dewey Dance, RM 3/c

Joseph Ferdinand DeLuca, RM 1/c

Bruno Peter Gaido AMM 1/c Captured 6/4/42, executed 6/15/42

Louis Dale Hanson, RM 3/c MIA 6/4/42

Donald Hoff, RM 3/c

Earl Edward Howell, RM 2/c

Roy L. Hoss, RM 3/c

Frederick Charles Jeck, RM 3/c MIA 6/4/42

Porter William Pixley, RM 3/c

John Warren Snowden, RM 3/c

William Henry Stambaugh, RM 1/c MIA 6/4/42

Alfred R. Stitzelberger, RM 2/c

Thurman Randolph Swindell, AOM 1/c KIA 6/4/42

-Kleiss 2017, Appendix

Thanks guys---

At this Midway reunion there were 15-20 in attendance.

Andy

stikpusher

 

 

goldhammer

Should be rosters of assigned personel somewhere in the records of each squadron on the USN records.  

Might take awhile and don't know what the $$ would be to dig it out on a request to the Navy.

 

 

 

 

They exist. Along with the aircraft flown and disposition of aircrew and aircraft.

 

The After Action Reports for both Midway and Coral Sea are available online.  Just google for them.

GMorrison

VS-6

Bruno Peter Gaido AMM 1/c Captured 6/4/42, executed 6/15/42

More accurate to say that Gaido and his pilot were murdered.

If I remember correctly, the skipper of the destroyer that picked them up would have been tried as a war criminal but he didn't survive.  Or that might have been the skipper of the destroyer that picked up Ensign Osmus, who was also murdered by the Japanese.

Here is an excellent 8 part documentary on Midway based on Shattered Sword:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHhlR-Cxheg&list=PLw9X_X7UNQvLPMGkOFCAxD9o5JZzOt9Z5

One of the trailers I saw shows Japanese twin engined aircraft bombing and going kamikaze on a US carrier which is complete rubbish.

richs26

One of the trailers I saw shows Japanese twin engined aircraft bombing and going kamikaze on a US carrier which is complete rubbish.

 

That occurred during one of the early 1942 raids in the Gilberts & Marshall's. Bruno Gaido jumped into the gunners mount on a tied down SBD and fired on the bomber which then just missed the ship and clipped off the tail of the SBD. He was credited with saving Enterprise from actually being hit by the bomber.

That sounds like it fits into the story arc of the movie.

the Baron

 

 

GMorrison

VS-6

Bruno Peter Gaido AMM 1/c Captured 6/4/42, executed 6/15/42

 

 

 

More accurate to say that Gaido and his pilot were murdered.

GMorrison

That sounds like it fits into the story arc of the movie.

 

Exactly. The previews lead me to think it's gonna show events from Pearl Harbor to Midway mainly from the Enterprise perspective, using actual historical personages. The 1976 film concentrated more from the Yorktown perspective for the USN at sea scenes, and came up with fictitous characters to do so. 

stikpusher

 

 

richs26

One of the trailers I saw shows Japanese twin engined aircraft bombing and going kamikaze on a US carrier which is complete rubbish.

 

 

 

 

That occurred during one of the early 1942 raids in the Gilberts & Marshall's. Bruno Gaido jumped into the gunners mount on a tied down SBD and fired on the bomber which then just missed the ship and clipped off the tail of the SBD. He was credited with saving Enterprise from actually being hit by the bomber.

 

 

The bomber was a G3M Nell, the predecessor to the G4M Betty.

Here is the tale of that incident...

https://usnhistory.navylive.dodlive.mil/2017/04/24/toughness-aviation-machinist-mate-first-class-amm1c-bruno-peter-gaido/

 Not rubbish at all...

I just got home from seeing this movie.

If you have any interest whatsoever in WWII US Naval action, go see this one.  I've read Shattered Sword, as well as a couple of other books on Midway, and as far as my amateur historian self can tell, this movie is as accurate as one can expect out of Hollywood.  Now, there are always rivet counters who will claim that a Devastator would not be fitted out with both a torpedo and the two wing-mounted bombs.  Probably so, but something like that should not impact one's enjoyment of the film.

The G3M Nell bombers come in February 1942 when the USN attacked an island in the Marshalls.  That sequence was not rubbish.  They do depict the airman who the Japanese executed.  And the movie covers a lot of ground - from Pearl Harbor to Midway.  It's the first time I recall seeing a movie with anything regarding Coral Sea being depicted.  Not a long sequence, but more to set the stage for the coming battle at Midway, with the USN losing the original Lexington there and the Yorktown heavily damaged.

I think the depiction of the Dauntless dive bombing was probably incorrect, as I believe they did not all dive en masse (I do stand to be corrected here), and I'm doubting that the Japanese could put up the heavy AA fire as depicted.  But visually, it is quite fantastic.  Think of the original Star Wars when the X-Wings dove into the trench; they managed to capture that same pit-of-your-stomach feel for the many dives the US took on the Japanese carriers.

I really enjoyed the movie, and now seriously want to build a Dauntless or even a Devastator (but unfortunately, I have two Monogram B-29s on my bench right now, so there is no room for anything else; heck, there is not really room for both those Superforts either).

Looking on IMDB the reviews are pretty favorable for the most part. The biggest gripes look to be about the CGI. 

But yes, the doctine was for SBDs to dive in sections or in trail, one after the  next, not en masse. 

Saw it yesterday and was favorably impressed.

Much less of the 'spot the celebrity' action than in the old Charlton Heston version [or maybe I'm just too old and out-of-the-loop to recognize anybody], though both Dennis Quaid as Halsey and Woody Harrelson as Nimitz did well. The over-enthusiastic CG and some lapses in military detail were only to be expected...but I was relieved to see the soap-opera excesses of past modern-era 'epics' were absent, with just enough personal story here and there to ground things well.

Go see it. You'll have fun looking for nits...but I think you'll appreciate this important story still being told by contemporary filmmakers who obviously care about the history.

This bears more discussion, but in Kleiss he suggests that one of his beefs with McClusky (there were many), concerned the attack on Akagi and Kaga.

On pages 198- 200, he descibes his own view of events. Akagi and Kaga sighted along with two other ships, Soryu and Hiryu which were about 10 miles further away.

McClusky"Enemy sighted!"

McClusky "All planes attack".

Here it gets messy because Bombing Six (Best), as the lead squadron and led by the AGC McCluskey, would by doctrine take the further target Akagi off to starboard and Scouting Six (Gallaher) would attack the nearer target to port, Kaga.

But the Air Group Commander, McClusky, banked hard to port ahead of them all and dove on Kaga. His wingmen, who were to remain at altitude and photograph the attack as well as provide cover; went down right behind him and so did  the first section of B-6.

Best then changed plan and took the leading three SBDs of (EDIT) B-6  off towards Akagi without McCluskey. But the rest of  (EDIT)B-6 dove on Kaga.

Best and group scored enough hits on Akagi to cripple her, and then all of B-3 arrived and seventeen SBD's dove in more regular order on her and destroyed her.

So at first there seemd to be divided sections of SBDs from Enterprise going in several different dirrections at once.

Actually it was Best and the first division of VB-6 that dove on Akagi. The rest of VB-6 and all of VS-6, aside from a couple of VS-6 aircraft that ran out of fuel dived on Kaga, in the manner mentioned. VB-6 and VS-6 did dive intermixed in something of a gaggle.

VB-3 dove in an orderly manner on Soryu, although several dove with no bomb due to arming malfunctions.

Smithsonian channel doing a Midway history program tonite ( Monday)

Andy

I took my 15 year old son with me yesterday and saw it at a matinee. It was a very good movie, enjoyable. I do not know a lot of the actual details of the battle so I don't know what's correct about who did what.

But I do know that the US Navy wins the battle [spoiler alert].

Rob Gronovius

I took my 15 year old son with me yesterday and saw it at a matinee. It was a very good movie, enjoyable. I do not know a lot of the actual details of the battle so I don't know what's correct about who did what.

But I do know that the US Navy wins the battle [spoiler alert].

 

Lol! 

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

Rob Gronovius

I took my 15 year old son with me yesterday and saw it at a matinee. It was a very good movie, enjoyable. I do not know a lot of the actual details of the battle so I don't know what's correct about who did what.

But I do know that the US Navy wins the battle [spoiler alert].

 

I thought in this version of events the US initially looses the battle but that a group of Super Heroes event a time machine to go back in time to fix things.  Or am I getting my movies mixed up 

PFJN

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought in this version of events the US initially looses the battle but that a group of Super Heroes event a time machine to go back in time to fix things.  Or am I getting my movies mixed up 

 

Final Countdown......carrier is transported bck to Pearl Harbor as the attack is coming in.

goldhammer

 Final Countdown......carrier is transported bck to Pearl Harbor as the attack is coming in.

 

Oops, I forgot, there was actually a movie along those lines before 

GMorrison

This bears more discussion, but in Kleiss he suggests that one of his beefs with McClusky (there were many), concerned the attack on Akagi and Kaga.

On pages 198- 200, he descibes his own view of events. Akagi and Kaga sighted along with two other ships, Soryu and Hiryu which were about 10 miles further away.

McClusky"Enemy sighted!"

McClusky "All planes attack".

Here it gets messy because Bombing Six (Best), as the lead squadron and led by the AGC McCluskey, would by doctrine take the further target Akagi off to starboard and Scouting Six (Gallaher) would attack the nearer target to port, Kaga.

But the Air Group Commander, McClusky, banked hard to port ahead of them all and dove on Kaga. His wingmen, who were to remain at altitude and photograph the attack as well as provide cover; went down right behind him and so did  the first section of B-6.

Best then changed plan and took the leading three SBDs of (EDIT) B-6  off towards Akagi without McCluskey. But the rest of  (EDIT)B-6 dove on Kaga.

Best and group scored enough hits on Akagi to cripple her, and then all of B-3 arrived and seventeen SBD's dove in more regular order on her and destroyed her.

So at first there seemd to be divided sections of SBDs from Enterprise going in several different dirrections at once.

Per Japanese records from eye witnesses only three planes attack Akagi.

Indeed, Lt. Best's quick thinking after seeing McClusky's squadron heading in on the Kaga pulled out of his dive but most of his squadron followed McClusky in their dives.  Best and his two wingman who stay with him moved on to the Akagi.  Only these three planes dived on the Akagi. In the book "Shattered Sword" the three dive together in their original V-formation 75 - 100 feet apart. The first missed portside just forward of the island, the second missed just off the portside stern bending up her flight deck and jamming her rudder.  The third hit went through the deck up by the island at the edge of the middle elevator and then exploded in the upper hanger bay.  Lt. Best describes watching CAP fighters taking off during their dive, no one was looking up.  It is believed that Lt. Best bomb was the one that landed in the hanger bay and started the fireworks of exploding bombs, torpedoes and fuel.  All three planes were only carrying 1,000lb general purpose bombs, no armor or semi-armor piercing weapons.  I always wonder if they had armor piercing bombs would they have travel thru both hanger bays and not set off all of those planes in those hangers.

A good video series is "Air Operations-Battle of Midway", found on Youtube, an 8 part series.  It is based on "Shattered Sword" in part, mostly.

The wife and I saw it tonight and other than a few maneuvers that would not happen, it was very good. It follows the history in Shattered Sword very well. It's a shame the battle of Coral Sea was pretty much passed over. The attack on the carriers was a little confusing and you wouldn't really understand what was going on unless you were familiar with the events. I look at it like your watching it from the Japanese point of view. The movie was in constant motion with no love interest other than Lt Best' s wife and daughter.

Bottom line, I enjoyed it very much and would be happy to go again.

It's a war movie like Hollywood used to make before the 70's, besides the CGI.

We went to see it Sunday with our WWII living history group. These guys (and gals) are knowledgable and usually pretty brutal, but the consensus was that it was a very well done movie. Good attention to detail in uniforms, civilian wear, and vehicles. Minimal Hollywood, and good use of CGI. There are errors (e.g., late model B-25s for the Doolittle raiders, Enterprise crew watching the Hornet launch the raiders), but they didn't detract from the movie at all. The 2.5 hrs passed very quickly indicating content that held the attention. Well worth seeing.

Went to see it with my family and a couple of friends Sunday night and have to say that I was impressed. Lovelife drama was kept out of it and there was no hating. They let us see the war from both sides and took us inside their ships during attacks to show the truest carnage possible that war causes on both sides. There were inaccuracies but that would be nitpicky to point them out I feel. Good history lesson for everybody to watch as we tend to have short memories in regards to that it seems.

My friends and I saw it twice. The first time it seemed to suck us into the times and WWII. Movie seemed like it was 20 min long. Great attention to detail. Seemed like you were really there.

Only problem I had ( there were many problems but they didn't detract too much) was that the movie centered on just 2 or 3 pilots and made them the heros.

Those guys of Scouting 6 that I knew personaly would have been very disappointed in this as they all said it was a team effort with no one person standing out, They did it together as a single group---some guys hit their targets others missed but it was no one person that was highlighted! 

According to Dusty they practiced so much that the squadron functioned as one man. "It was the practice that got us through."

Andy

Did anyone else catch the small detail of Yamamoto's fingers?   In the early scenes, the dinner/meeting with Layman and Yamamoto,  it appears that several of Yamamoto's fingers are missing. 
During the Russo-Japanese War, Yamamoto, then a junior officer,  was injured at the Battle of Tushima resulting in the loss of this index and middle fingers on his left hand.  

I enjoyed the film

I just saw it last night and I really liked it,   I was comparing it to the heston version and I think the earlier film was better in one respect, that they showed alot more detail on where the task forces were in relation to each other, who was doing what.

there was no mention at all the scout palne activity, maybe I'm nit picking but if I didn't know anything about the 3-4 battles that were shown (dolittle, coral sea) I would be confused as too what was going on and how things got to where they are.

Hopefully I'm not to far off the mark.

John

Since the critics hated it, and so many here liked it, I am going to see it tonight.  I'm excited, we need a good movie.

I went and saw it last night. To me, it was good but could have been better. Certainly far better than Pearl Harbor. Compared to the 1976 Midway movie each has its’ own plusses and minuses compared to the other. Each included or omitted details that would help the narrative. And each has its own gaffes. But definitely worth seeing on the big screen. If you’re well read on the battle, you’ll most likely enjoy the film. And look for those hidden easter eggs of historical bits such as the above mentioned missing fingers on Yamamoto’s hand. 

But yeah, Hollywood needs some better technical advisors for the CGI folks tighten up their shot grouping. 

I saw it last Friday. Overall I would say I enjoyed the film and would recommend it. Yes to me there were a lot of CGI issues but certainly better than Pearl Harbor. Kate Beckinscale not withstanding. My main beef was the speed of the planes.  I'm sure the CGI guys can slow things down. Also was disappointed not to see some wildcats. Plus if Japanese AA was like that nothing would get through. It did make me feel young. Not only was the original midway the first war movie that I saw in the theater but at 56 I was by far the youngest at this one. Most I would guess were in their 70's to 80's

The Gallant Hours is the movie with James Cagney playing Halsey. It's about him  reminiscing just before he "retires" from the Navy (5 Stars don't officially retire). It's somewhat interesting, but don't look for any exciting combat. It's more of a behind the scenes accounting. As I recall, he spent most of it talking to his enlisted aide. 

Just saw it with my good friends Modelcrazy & Lewbud and loved it! I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to the history of the Pacific theater so I didnt have any expectations other than it being jam packed with action.  And was it ever! 

Rotorhead13

The Gallant Hours is the movie with James Cagney playing Halsey. It's about him  reminiscing just before he "retires" from the Navy (5 Stars don't officially retire). It's somewhat interesting, but don't look for any exciting combat. It's more of a behind the scenes accounting. As I recall, he spent most of it talking to his enlisted aide. 

 

I'll look for that. Cagney as Halsey...it fits 

mississippivol

After watching it last Tuesday, (btw I totally enjoyed it), I realized that I hadn't seen a war movie where Halsey was a major character. Am I missing a movie that featured him prominently, beside Robert Michie scratching himself in the Midway 76 movie?

 

Tora! Tora! Tora!, Halsey is played by James Whitmore (Sr.) in that one and has a rather prominent role in that film. 

While looking forward to this movie, I had reservations about it that were gone within the first 15 minutes of the movie. I saw it with Modelcrazy and Mopar Madness, and as we were walking past the theater after dinner, I wondered which one of the movies had the volume cranked up as you could hear explosions outside the theater. Steve said that it was Midway and I replied I didn't recall it being that loud and he said that was because you were into it, and he was right. I'm not sure I would have included the homefront footage, but it added to the story and didn't detract from it. I thought the incidents involving Gaido at the Coral Sea and his execution were cinematic additions, but in reading previous posts, I found out that they were actual events. I didn't remember John Ford being at Midway, but a quick use of my Googlefu confirmed that he was and made an award winning documentary about the battle of Midway.While it was fairly easy to keep up with the American personell, some help by the way of subtitles (like they did in the 1976 movie) would have helped with the Japanese.  While shown in the movie, no mention is made of Ens. Gay (lone survivor of Torpedo 8). I thought Woody Harrelson did a good job as Nimitz (plus it made this Texas boy's day to see a Texan playing a Texan hero). After seeing this, I need to add Layton's book to my library along with Shattered Sword (read a borrowed copy).  

stikpusher

 

 

mississippivol

After watching it last Tuesday, (btw I totally enjoyed it), I realized that I hadn't seen a war movie where Halsey was a major character. Am I missing a movie that featured him prominently, beside Robert Michie scratching himself in the Midway 76 movie?

 

 

 

 

Tora! Tora! Tora!, Halsey is played by James Whitmore (Sr.) in that one and has a rather prominent role in that film. 

 

Thanks, man. I couldn't say how long since I'd seen that movie, but I found a copy at Barnes and Nobles this evening to watch again.

stikpusher

Certainly far better than Pearl Harbor.

I don't know. I saw Pearl Harbor and I thought it was interesting to see World War Two as interpreted by The Gap.  

[quote user="the Baron"]

GMorrison

VS-6

Bruno Peter Gaido AMM 1/c Captured 6/4/42, executed 6/15/42

 

More accurate to say that Gaido and his pilot were murdered.

If I remember correctly, the skipper of the destroyer that picked them up would have been tried as a war criminal but he didn't survive.  Or that might have been the skipper of the destroyer that picked up Ensign Osmus, who was also murdered by the Japanese.

[/quote

Not an unusual event with the WW2 Japanese. The destroyer Akikaze atrocity was even worse. From Wikipedia:

“On 18 March 1942 Akikaze was the scene of a war crime. During construction of a seaplane base at Kairiru Island Akikaze evacuated the personnel of the Roman Catholic mission headquarters on that island and also several individuals from Wewak. These included Bishop Joseph Loerks, 38 missionaries (31 of whom were German nationals) including 18 nuns, one New Guinea girl, and two Chinese infants (apparently the children of Wewak storekeeper Ning Hee). The vessel then called at Manus where it picked up 20 others, again mostly Germans, including six missionaries from the Liebenzell Evangelical Mission, three other nuns and three other priests, a European infant, a plantation owner named Carl Muster and plantation overseer Peter Mathies, two Chinese, and apparently four Malays. The ostensible intention was to carry them to internment in Rabaul. "Between Manus and Rabaul each of the adults was strung up by the hands on a gallows in the stern of the vessel, shot dead by rifle or machine-gun fire, and thrown overboard. The two Chinese infants and the European baby were thrown over alive."

And these were mostly Germans, ostensibly Japanese allies.

To repeat myself, the term "executed" is Kleiss' choice, not mine.

The words murder and execution can be used interchangeably in certain circumstances. And even together on occasion. An individual can be murdered, “execution style”. As opposed to other murder methods that occur. Its something of a technicality in terminology. The person is just as dead as whether they are murdered, or executed by formal means as a result of judicial or non judicial process. 

And a long story short, the Japanese attitude towards prisoners, military, and civilian, as well as the record of their treatment of said prisoners, are well documented. Bushido was not in line with the Geneva and Hague conventions.

I saw the movie last night and thought it was entertaining and did well at getting the message of what the war was like at the begining of WW2 to this new generation.  The writing and acting was really good. I was questioning why they completely left out the role of the American fighters.  The special effects, well, some shots of the Enterprise and close ups of the SBDs were really good.  The rest looked like it was left over stock from World of Warships.  In fact, watching the battle scenes made me think I was watching one long World of Warships trailer. The landing scenes were almost cartoonish. The chase through the valley and the divebomb scenes were reminiscent of the attack on the Death Star.  As Best was diving, I was hearing in my head a voice saying " Use the Force Richard, use the Force"!

With my banter aside, I really enjoyed this movie.  

Hmmm, I'm on vacation/holiday but most of what I've heard has been good to great. Really looking forward to seeing it when I get home!

Thanks for the comments guys!!!

Although some jerk gave me spoilers- the USN wins- ...

Just saw it yesterday and I think they got it about 90% right. Has to be a record for Hollywood. Yes; the SBD’s and Zeros did some interesting maneuvers but overall they really keep to the story line without a lot of added distractions. Was surprised and pleased with Woody Harrelson as Nimitz. I was afraid I wouldn’t be able to shake the image of his character in Cheers; but he did an excellent job. Without being a spoiler, my only real disappointment was *** Best’s second dive. Kinda reminded me of Slim Pickens in Dr. Strangelove. If you’ve seen em both you’ll know what I mean. All in all; great movie and I might actually go see it again. Last time I did that was Star Wars; (the 1977 release)!!!

PFJN

 

 

Rob Gronovius

I took my 15 year old son with me yesterday and saw it at a matinee. It was a very good movie, enjoyable. I do not know a lot of the actual details of the battle so I don't know what's correct about who did what.

But I do know that the US Navy wins the battle [spoiler alert].

 

 

 

 

I thought in this version of events the US initially looses the battle but that a group of Super Heroes event a time machine to go back in time to fix things.  Or am I getting my movies mixed up 

 

There is actually a book trilogy where that is the basic premise, the Axis of Time trilogy.  A multinational naval fleet, including modern German and Japanese ships, from the 2020s is teleported back in time and lands smack in the middle of the American fleet before the battle.

As far as the movie goes, I was pleasantly surprised.  I am very glad they did not wander down the path of Pearl Harbor with extra interpersonal stories.

I just got back from seeing the movie. I found it to be rather good and enjoyed it immensely. Good accuracy and detail. I'd strongly recommend it.

My wife and I just came back from seeing it.  I agree with all the obsevations here.  

Finally got a chance to see this and what a great movie! Yeah, there the CGI planes did come off a little Star Warish in their handling but over-all loved the film!

My apologies to Mr. Emmerich. I take back (most) of the bad stuff I said about him. Still don't like the '90s Hollywood 'Godzilla' though...

Ed Skrein was a great leading man. Still impressed that someone from London could do a pretty darn good 'Jersey accent. And having Keean Johnson as his gunner made me grin.

I finally saw Midway tonight, but still noted the nitpicking inaccuracies.  The SBD's from the -2 through to the -3's should have had spinners, especially the new -3's which B-6 and S-6 were mostly equipped with.  The squadron markings were screwed up from the beginning on December 7th up to probably after thge Coral Sea.  The B-25's had the proper US insignia.  It looked like Lindsey's TBD's dropped bombs rather than torpedoes.  And the torpedoes should have been equipped with the plywood boxes over the fins.  The most outrageous part was the B-26 attack.  Lt. Muri and Capt. Collins would be spinning in their graves over the depiction of their attack.  There were only 4 B-26's used at Midway and they dropped torpedoes, not bombs from a high altitude.  Lt. Muri and Lt. Pren Moore were the ones who flew down the deck of the Akagi to escape the flak and Zeroes.  B-17's dropped bombs at a high altitude on the Japanese fleet.

Gamera

Hmmm, I'm on vacation/holiday but most of what I've heard has been good to great. Really looking forward to seeing it when I get home!

Thanks for the comments guys!!!

Although some jerk gave me spoilers- the USN wins- ...

 

But nobody told you how the USN actually won.

Captain America and the Transformers intercepted Godzilla

scottrc

 

 

Gamera

Hmmm, I'm on vacation/holiday but most of what I've heard has been good to great. Really looking forward to seeing it when I get home!

Thanks for the comments guys!!!

Although some jerk gave me spoilers- the USN wins- ...

 

 

 

 

 

But nobody told you how the USN actually won.

Captain America and the Transformers intercepted Godzilla

 

ROTFL!!!

I thought Chuck Norris punched Godzilla out???

Yeah, I could nit-pick the movie but over-all I was really impressed. The scenes of Pearl Harbor I thought did a great job of capturing the utter chaos and sheer living hell of the surprise attack.

If they Hollywooded up the battles it's to be expected, I still loved the film. I'm buying the Blu-Ray as soon as it goes on sale.

I saw it the other evening.  As a personal observation, I thought it was merely okay.  I found it in the same vein as that turd ball known as 'Pearl Harbor' with Affleck, although not that bad.  Although I am no expert, it was impressive to watch airplanes jink around the sky without ailerons, rudders of elevators moving or see aircraft wingtips take a good touch of the water and not cartwheel, butt over tea kettle.  Were some things a little far fetched?  Absolutely.  Was it what I expected?  No.  In my opinion, it was the kind of movie where you park your brain at the door for a couple of hours, sit back, watch a movie and enjoy a box of popcorn.  I guess I was expecting more after seeing the original Midway - In Sensurround! - in the mid 70's.

Saw the movie yesterday.  I think I still like the original better.  That earlier version covered more of the activities at PH ops, more Nimitz and stuff.  I like that top down view a lot.

The computer graphics were horrid!  It is not enough to make the plane look like the real thing- it must fly like the real thing.  The idea of dive bombers diving in close formation, even in a line abreast formation, looked silly.  While level bombers, especially at altitude did fly in close formation, the idea of fighters in combat staying in close formation was dead by 1940.  Those shots of planes flying between ships moored side by side at deck level was ridiculous.  And the super high G pullups dead stick were really hokey.  If CGI guys are going to model aircraft in flight, they need to learn some dynamics also.  The CGI flying was as bad as the Pearl Harbor movie.  Sound was great, though!

Finaly saw it yesterday at a midday/senior/early bird discount...$6.75. Well worth it and generally better than I expected. As Don and others have said, the flying was less than reallistic and way too Death Star attack. Reasonably historically accurate, in a Readers' Digest abridged way. My biggest gripe was the lo-viz subdued national insignia on the navy aircraft. The standards called for an insignia blue roundel with a white star. Period photographs clearly show the contrast between the roundel and the fuselage and star. Wht was portrayed was a light grey roundel with an off white star. 

ajlafleche

...The standards called for an insignia blue roundel with a white star. Period photographs clearly show the contrast between the roundel and the fuselage and star. Wht was portrayed was a light grey roundel with an off white star. 

 

  Yes, I noticed that.  Guess that color film they used "faded".  There's an excuse for ya, they added Realisim!

      So much is wrong with the Air Action/Aircraft in the CGI that I think I'll recommend closing one eye and looking thru a Toilet paper tube to see just 1 plane-n-1 ship at a time, for the next viewing.  Yes, I liked The Heston/Fonda/Mifune Midway best for the background History and story-telling but they used new "Rivets" (angled-deck Essex class).   Back in '76 I wanted to see what a Japanese Carrier looked like .  I got that in the new flick.

     I would love to see the edited-out footage...  and some F4F's. 

     Nino

P.S.  The 1976 Midway movie was released 2 days before Joe Rochefort passed away.

The 1976 movie used the training carrier, USS Lexington for both US and Japanese carriers, where filming was done in the Gulf of Mexico.  It was also used for Pearl Harbor while tied up to the dock.

Don Stauffer

The computer graphics were horrid! 

I finally viewed this movie and in my opinion its as Don said, the CGI is horrid. At times I thought I was watching a computer game. And as usual, the aircraft seem to defy rational logic. I thought the acting was less than stellar as well. There wasn't much that I could hang my hat on with this movie other than it killed a few hours while offering some visual stimulation. 

I really hate the current state of Hollywood movies. Everything is overly processed, predictable, and sterile. 

Disappointed. 

Bakster

 Don Stauffer

The computer graphics were horrid! 

 Bakster

 

"...the aircraft seem to defy rational logic...     I really hate the current state of Hollywood movies. Everything is overly processed, predictable, and sterile."

 

 Ditto and Ditto.  Remember, my plan is to watch it again thru the cardboard from a roll of Toilet Paper.   True tunnel vision.  And although that will make me a more Subjective viewer, (I like Objective people), it will get me that One plane/ One ship view that adds realism in my mind. 

(And then I won't worry 'bout all those planes in the sky having a Mid-Air.)

   Jim

Nino

 

 

Bakster

 Don Stauffer

The computer graphics were horrid! 

 Bakster

 

"...the aircraft seem to defy rational logic...     I really hate the current state of Hollywood movies. Everything is overly processed, predictable, and sterile."

 

 

 

 

 Ditto and Ditto.  Remember, my plan is to watch it again thru the cardboard from a roll of Toilet Paper.   True tunnel vision.  And although that will make me a more Subjective viewer, (I like Objective people), it will get me that One plane/ One ship view that adds realism in my mind. 

(And then I won't worry 'bout all those planes in the sky having a Mid-Air.)

   Jim

 

 We are all wired differently and I'm glad for the people that liked the movie. 

Say what you will about the movie...

Now this is pure awesomeness. For the movie, the film makers built a full scale replica of a TBD for filming purposes. That prop is now going to be displayed onboard USS Midway in San Diego as part of the museum. They already have a F4F and SBD. It’s not a real TBD, but until one can be recovered and restored, it’s a one of a kind display. 

A TBD has not been on a US carrier hangar deck since 1942

I'll have to check that out after all this is over.  Couple the tour with a nice dinner in the gasslamp if the restaurants reopen. 

That is awesome. Thanks for the heads-up.

Bill

That's totaly cool Stick

For those that haven't seen it (like me, never made it to our local theater) it is showing on HBO tonight at 8.

Watched it last night on HBO.  I must admit it left me underwhelmed.  The acting was "wooden" and the CGI was something out of a game.  If you thought "Pearl Harbor" was bad, this one told that movie to hold it's beer!  It was one of those movies that you think "oh, it must get better further on" but never does.

I managed to sit through the entire thing, but was never engaged by any of the action.  The only scene that caught my attention was Rear Admiral Tamon Yamaguchi, together with the ship's captain, Tomeo Kaku, electing to go down with their ship.

I understand others may hold a different opinion, but mine is the only one that matters in the long run.  "Midway (2019)" is not a movie I'll be adding to my video collection.

Gary

I was kind of underwhelmed by it, but may add it to the motorhome disc collection.

Were photos of your loved ones in a cockpit a real thing or is it a Hollywood thing? Cougar in Top Gun has them and Maverick has Gooses's dog tags. There may be more moovies where I think they appear. Wouldn't they be a distraction? Are they allowed?

I think of the Isreali Skyhawk pilot in beginning of Sum of All Fears,I believe he had a picture in the pit.

Not sure if its a real thing though

   Given the high maneuverability of the F-14 the stuff in Top Gun is completely hollywood. The picture wouldn't cause much of a problem but the dog tags made of aluminium could case all kinds of bad things if dropped into a floorboard then wrap around throttle or other flight control systems.