Disturbing bit of data

This thread is now locked.

AT6

I once heard a radio commentator say that in less than fifty years the dictionary will define freedom as an archaic notion. From the looks of the little pukes being turned out by the system, it will be twenty, not fifty years if even that long. God help our nation because the next generation isn't worth the price of a bullet.

I hope this thread dries out, and I'm blowing out too.

jtilley

My suggestion: let us all acknowledge what (I hope) all can agree upon: that 9/11 was a horrible, tragic event of vital historical and geopolitical importance, which every American should know something about. Beyond that, let's agree that, though there are plenty of places on the web for discussion of the issues connected with 9/11, the FSM Forum isn't one of them. With that, I bow out too.

My suggestion: let us all acknowledge what (I hope) all can agree upon: that 9/11 was a horrible, tragic event of vital historical and geopolitical importance, which every American should know something about. Beyond that, let's agree that, though there are plenty of places on the web for discussion of the issues connected with 9/11, the FSM Forum isn't one of them. With that, I bow out too.

jtilley

Gentlemen, I have to tell you I'm getting uncomfortable about the way this thread is developing. I realize that my having started it gives me no authority whatsoever to dictate its content, but if it goes much further in this direction I'm afraid the moderators may lock it.

As I said earlier, I had no intention of starting a political argument. I was just moaning about a state of affairs whose causes are many and complicated.

wolfhammer1

I will apologize for using the term Socialism.  Please suggest an alternate.

As a short answer, I would say that the term you're looking for is "Neo-Feudalism".

I will apologize for using the term Socialism.  Please suggest an alternate.

Gentlemen, I have to tell you I'm getting uncomfortable about the way this thread is developing. I realize that my having started it gives me no authority whatsoever to dictate its content, but if it goes much further in this direction I'm afraid the moderators may lock it.

As I said earlier, I had no intention of starting a political argument. I was just moaning about a state of affairs whose causes are many and complicated.

I once heard a radio commentator say that in less than fifty years the dictionary will define freedom as an archaic notion. From the looks of the little pukes being turned out by the system, it will be twenty, not fifty years if even that long. God help our nation because the next generation isn't worth the price of a bullet.

wolfhammer1

 If ever we were being made into sheep, it is now, and it is a Socialist's dream condition.

wolfhammer1

Sad.  Their parents, the schools, the media, and our entire society is to blame for these children being ignorant.  I blame our narrow, biased way of getting information these days.  Everything is customized to our narrow view, to reinforce our blinders, not expand our horizons.  Bookstores, hobby shops and video stores are being replaced with online stores that track our selections and suggest things they think we would like.  Our ability to choose for ourselves is gradually being eroded by not having to choose for ourselves and being replaced with others choosing for us.  I ever we were being made into sheep, it is now, and it is a Socialist's dream condition.

Sad.  Their parents, the schools, the media, and our entire society is to blame for these children being ignorant.  I blame our narrow, biased way of getting information these days.  Everything is customized to our narrow view, to reinforce our blinders, not expand our horizons.  Bookstores, hobby shops and video stores are being replaced with online stores that track our selections and suggest things they think we would like.  Our ability to choose for ourselves is gradually being eroded by not having to choose for ourselves and being replaced with others choosing for us.  I ever we were being made into sheep, it is now, and it is a Socialist's dream condition.

The parents must indeed bear some of the blame. But what sort of lifestyle must these kids live? Stuff about 9/11 is everywhere around us. It seems like anybody who reads newspapers, or watches TV news occasionally, would know at least a little bit about 9/11.

I tell my museum studies classes that the average American teenager is interested in precisely six subjects: rock music, automobiles, beer, marijuana, sex, and sex.

Bish

What are the parents of these kids doing.

And some say it was a inside job.

How quickly people forget such a day like 9/11. I remember exactly where I was and what I was doing when my wife called me on the cell phone. I remember driving to a daycare around the corner and telling the lady at the front office to turn on the tv cause something terrible was happening. She did and we were left speechless as we watched the reports. A sad day NEVER to be forgotten.

Was it over when the Germans bombed pearl harbor ? He'll no.

Don is on target as usual. It appears, in fact, that the concept of liberal arts education is dying in American universities. (A lot of people don't know what the term means. They think it has something to do with political liberalism.) A few years ago the dean of our college of arts and sciences tried to get the term "liberal arts" written into the university's mission statement. He got voted down.

There's reason to think that, within the next decade or two, the traditional format for college teaching - students in small classes listening to lectures and engaging in dialogues with the instructors - is going to die out. Students will do everything online, picking courses (which will have enrollments in the hundreds or even thousands) from online menus tailored precisely to their intended careers.

Some of my colleagues think "distance learning" courses are fine things. Maybe so. But at this point in my life and career I want nothing to do with them.

In any case, though, shouldn't EVERYBODY know what happened on 9/11/01? Shouldn't every VOTER know?

The number of subjects students question why they need to study is quite long.  Many seem to feel that the only thing they need to study is the profession they want to enter.

Okay, I was a tech guy.  Many of my friends in late 50s and early 60s felt same way, so it is not a new thing.  I always felt sad for those guys.  My profs used to really get on my case about wasting precious electives taking that liberal arts crap, but I sure do not regret my choices!

Proff;

     Now you know why I retired when I did . I couldn't stand the idea that an engineering grad knew nothing about slide rules or how drafting tools are used . Good question was asked once . " Sir , why do we have to wear linen gloves to examine these prints ? " The prints ? The over fifty year old ,ink on linen prints of the San Fransisco Bay Bridge .( the originals ,from state archives ! ) " Why don't they make some copies from these ? "

      I have a love for old documents , like Frank Lloyd Wright's plans of Taleiasin West . To suggest that old documents are nothing but paper , made my bile rise ! So I retired . I build models to keep my curiosity alive .      T.B.

I didn't start this thread as a discussion of the defects of the news media - which are indeed considerable. I started it as a pointless howl of despair from the depths of the college culture. And I wouldn't take this particular piece of data seriously if I didn't, on the basis of personal experience, find it so believable.

Back when I was teaching freshman-level US history, I used to hand out a survey on the first day of each semester. The questions included, "which side, north or south, did the US support in the Vietnam conflict?" Typically half the students in a class of forty would miss that question, and between two thirds and three quarters of the class would get most of the survey questions wrong.

Good time to retire.

Being only 13 years ago and so not something I would yet pass to the history books, this is shocking, but indeed not surprising. What are the parents of these kids doing.

TV news is a shadow of its former self... Objectivity, fact checking, and impartiality, are seldom seen. Every mainstream outlet has an obvious bias to the left or right...

Let's take a deep breath here folks and relax.

The " study" was conducted by the Young Americas Foundation, a deeply political and religiously affiliated organization, ie not exactly non aligned.

They polled thirty students at George Washington University, where there are high standards for education

In a nutshell; piffle.

BTW Tilley, don't watch tv news for anything other than entertainment. In particular Fox, but NBC really is no better. Pure garbage.

Disturbing? Yes Surprised? No. Sad? You betcha. Kids nowadays don't care anymore about history. I wear a 9/11 t-shirt every year on the anniversary of Sept. 11th.

That would not surprise me... Unless they have a relative who died that day most families have left today in the past. The spirit that went thru the nation in the immediate aftermath is long gone. The fair weather patriots put away their flags. Most of the nation today is more concerned with nothingness... Fantasy football and celebrity antics...  It's straight out of Fahrenheit 451...

On the basis of forty years' dealing with college students, I'm confident in taking an educated guess about those twenty-seven young people: not only do they not know what happened on 9/11. They don't care.

Yeah, the country has only been at war for 13 years now...