Bish

. And to not share that info is not only to deny others the benefit of your knowledge, but to give into the extremists.

I know of at least two pretty well-known guys in the modeling world who have this unfortunate tendency, and it irritates me to no end. Honestly, there are SO many incredible modelers these days, you're really not going to get anything over on anybody. lol

Bish

And to not share that info is not only to deny others the benefit of your knowledge, but to give into the extremists.

I'll just say that from personal experience, once provoked they'll follow you all over the www and go after you in every forum you belong to with either the same user name, or even if you've posted the same pics and can be traced in an image search.

One such took the time to download and print hundreds of my posts from this forum, from which he divined a sordid motive on my part to do him harm. We ended up in a mediation room before he would stop. cost me thousands.

I always thought it was a scruffy little creature under my keyboard.

Just look for the meaningless three word post. Usually something like "yes and no..." or something similar. That's usually a strong indication.  

I hadn't known what this was all about. In someways< i still wish I didn't. But, it's really for the best. Irf someone on the forums has a disagreement with me, I may publish my opinion in the best possible terms I can think of, and then I will drop it completely. So, I guess thier not happy with me, are they. Reminds me of the e-mails that are sent to everyone saying they have won a few million dollors and to release that money, they need $800 to release the funds. Whenever I have received these e-mails, I reply saying I authorize them to subract the $800 from the million and send me a check for the rest. no, I never give them my bank information LOL

Well trolls on forums that debate history of politics is one thing. Trolls on a site like this are another. And I find it a real shame that some won't post info because they are concerned about trolls or others who may call them rivet counters. I can't say I have ever come across trolls on here. But I have certainly seen extremists from both sides. But there are a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum, whether it be how to build models both realistically or accurately, or how they piece of equipment was used or looked in the real world. And to not share that info is not only to deny others the benefit of your knowledge, but to give into the extremists.

Actually Doog that is how it is used fairly often these days.

But, it originally started out as a person typing BS or blatantly wrong info to see who "gets caught on the hook",,,,,,just like a fisherman paying a line out the stern of a moving boat (actual real  trolling/trawling)

The Troll name got stuck onto Trollers, and eveyone now thinks of little Gnome-like posters.

I used to be the "biggest fish in the internet sea" when it came to falling for a trolling post,,,,,,now, I realize that I can just shut up and not post a word to give correct info on any subject. Being quiet won't hurt a single model I build,,,and if people would rather believe that "the Marines didn't use JATO in 'Nam" (a real post, once),,,,,then, it doesn't matter to me or my model, I will still build to the photo taken in Chu Lai.

The only damage that a Troll causes that bothers me, is when it affects someone's mental state in real life,(those teen suicides really tick me off, as they would any parent)  or when it gets two people arguing that normally would just say "yeah, okay" and move on.

Being called names because someone disagrees with me,,,,,,,,well, that just makes me laugh,,,,,,I used to get called really mean things by professionals,,,,,and they didn't make me cry, lol.

Rex

Basically, a "troll" is someone who says something that another person strongly disagrees with. It's even worse if the original poster can back up their opinion with facts or a link proving their validity of opinion. The recipient of the information lacks an equally-valid response, and so labels the original poster a "troll" to try to invalidate them.

This is the TRUE definition of "troll".

Then there are always the self appointed defenders of the internet. They need a 55 gallon drum of butt hurt cream to salve their wounded pride every time someone dares to disagree with their sainted opinion, and will then passive-aggressively whine about it for months afterwards.

CN Spots

there is also the financial ramifications of users leaving a site and going elsewhere due to these clowns.  A lot of sites get compensation from advertisers based on the number of visitors.  

On a similar note, an online game I used to play was attacked by a large group of disgruntled users who, on a predetermined time and date, activated thousands of bots (robot ships preprogrammed to perform specific tasks) and unleashed them on every server of that game.  This shut the system down for over 24 hours until the developers weeded out the bots.  At that time there were 97 million registered users. Some of which paid real money for virtual ammo and upgrades.  This was/is a public company so I'm sure that ruffled some feathers.

This is referred to as a Denial of Service or DoS attack. I know of a couple of instances where someone banned from a modeling website or had a large scale disagreement with a number of members from the same website has launched a DoS attack on that site to make it unusable to other members. They also begin creating alternative usernames in order to continue personal attacks if they are removed from the site.

The persons in these examples were not trolls and began as just regular members such as yourself. Arguments ensued, feelings hurt (also derisively called "butt hurt"), nerd rage mode activated, and attacks begin.

It's one of the reasons why I try to stay out of the off-topic modeling forums. On this site, it's also the reason why I don't answer model related question that require a personal opinion. If you answer the question with an accuracy reason, many people here will call you a rivet counter. If you answer that one kit is easier to build than another, some people will say a real modeler would build it without trouble.

years  ions ago we had trolls on cb radio    when one was physically found  some one would put a pin hole intheir antenna wire with a pin  it would short out their cb radio  putting them out of the trolling business

As Bish, Gmorrison, Gamera & Rob G say.

It is Anonymous Bullying, often intentional, always malicious, calculated to hurt & degrade, and has cost lives in the UK.

Under English law If I say something bad about you to others, that is slander & can be prosecuted IF you can get witnesses to provide a statement. (& IF you can afford the legals)

IF I WRITE something bad (untruthful) about you, it is a published work, & the text is the proof, this is a lot easier to prosecute. This INCLUDES, any printed or written work, a posted letter, newspaper article, a book, etc.

This also includes ALL Electronic Media, SMS/text messaging, e-mails, web-pages, Twitter & Facebook.

The nuances of the above line are what keeps lawyers/barristers in expensive limos & suits!

The damage is the relentless hounding of others by on public media, (Facebook, Twitter, etc).

This has happened when a local residents' group were incited to attack & vandalise a female Pediatrician's house & person,  because the ahem 'person of limited intellectual capability' who incited this couldn't or wouldn't differentiate between a childrens' doctor & ... !    

The 2 year sentence mentioned would be a consequence of elevating the prosecution of offences from the Magistrates' court (roughly eqv. to local/town courts, max sentence 6 months) to Crown Courts, (eqv to State/higher & supreme courts, max sentence 2 years)

You have an expression: "Freedom of Speech, doesn't include the right to shout fire in an auditorium'

An English one is; 'Don't write cheques with your mouth your fists can't cash'

An interim solution would be "Don't feed the Trolls," don't use social media populated by idiots, etc?

Some websites don't allow anonymous registration, & have reporting tools so admins can remove inappropriate comments, posts etc. quickly, which works fine in closed groups like this one.

Others call for the de-anonymising of Facebook/Twitter/social media etc, where you could use a 'handle' but your actual identity details could be quickly determined.

Perhaps a page you have to read & agree to saying anything you write can be used to prosecute you, & by the way we can find out who you really are anyway, so you might as well use your real name....

Click to agree before you write anything, & if you can be called to account for what you say, you are a lot more considered & less brave about what you do say.

That solution has its' own problems, but maybe it's time for the Internet to grow up a little?

Gamera

So this more a cyber-stalking thing? Sorry about the mix-up.

Yes, and Cyber-bullying. And the confusion is very understandable.

there is also the financial ramifications of users leaving a site and going elsewhere due to these clowns.  A lot of sites get compensation from advertisers based on the number of visitors.  

On a similar note, an online game I used to play was attacked by a large group of disgruntled users who, on a predetermined time and date, activated thousands of bots (robot ships preprogrammed to perform specific tasks) and unleashed them on every server of that game.  This shut the system down for over 24 hours until the developers weeded out the bots.  At that time there were 97 million registered users. Some of which paid real money for virtual ammo and upgrades.  This was/is a public company so I'm sure that ruffled some feathers.

So this more a cyber-stalking thing? Sorry about the mix-up.

Spitfire, I think the word troll has changed from its original meaning. The toughening of the law in the UK, the current sentence is up to 6 months, is not aimed at those who might simply try and inflame a discussion. The acts in question have taken place on sites like twitter and facebook and have involved death threats, threats to rape and more.

Those being threatened are often those simply campaigning for justice or out to change certain things. Targets have included the McCann's, who's daughter Madeline went missing 11 years ago. Another victim is a woman who simply campaign to retain a woman on one of our bank notes.

Using the term troll has confused the issue a little and there has been some debate trying to explain the difference between the old fashioned trolls and these individuals.

Spitfire, political correctness isn't the issue.

It's anonymous bullying.

And by the way in my opinion most complaints about an over abundance of political correctness are an excuse for rude behavior.

But back to the topic; trolls do damage. They incite angry conversations, tempers flare, threads get locked and members get banned.

The term comes from their habit of trolling random websites in which they have no investment, causing trouble and moving on. I've been here 6 years and have had to change my user ID because of a troll who turned into a stalker.

Wow... 2 years for being a internet troll? Simple way to deal with internet troll is to get a grip and let it over your head. Not worth the aggravation - not to mention money, to send a violator to prison for such a ridiculous offense.

A 'troll' to me at least is someone that adds nothing to a discussion. Like the guy who comes a Camaro forum and posts 'MUSTANG RULEZ, YOU SUCK, HAHAHAHAHAHA' Having a disagreement is fine but a troll just seems to be out to start an argument. Frankly I think most of these people are narcissists, the only way they can get anyone to pay attention to them is start arguments so I  just ignore these sad, childish people.

This whole making it a fine-able or jail-able offence to me is horrible. These people are jerks, plain and simple, but we really don't need to get to the point of sending people to prison for being an a-hole. Ban them from the forum yes, but that's going way over the line.

I used to participate on some of those public forums discussing current events and so forth but don't any more simply cause of the reaction you get from some of these trolls or just plain uneducated mental midgets that think they know it all and spew insults and expletives at you.

Now I just read the article and see what ridiculous comments are posted and laugh. No need to aggravate yourself.  

So then what we're really talking about here is when something crosses over from just a fair debate on a topic, to going to the ridiculous?

I don't participate much in these on line things, I just have this forum because it's a hobby I enjoy and have learned a lot from people here, and another sports one following my favorite football team.  I have read people making comments on that site and referring to someone as a 'troll'.  However what I've seen there is a reasonable debate about say who the QB should be, and we all know that can spark debate, I read a back and forth on it between a couple people, one guy made a really good point that the other guy obviously disagreed with, so he makes a post something like 'you're just a troll'.

What is potentially disturbing to me in all this, is sort of the general direction things are going with all this political correctness and lets not offend anyone nonsense.  It's like the minute someone says something that someone disagrees with and can't come up with an intelligible response, they pull out the old 'that's offensive' card.  It's like the wind changes direction and someone gets offended these days.

There are various flavors of internet trolls. Tojo gives a good example of one. Another sort is a "flamer" who will ridicule anyone with very harsh words in order to provoke a battle of words called "a flame war".

Some people will respond to trolls, taking the bait and entering into the flame wars. Other people will warn them "not to feed the trolls". This happens when you think you can reason with the troll and he will change his evil ways if you can just get him to see the light. Of course, you're already hooked because we all know that the troll is just doing this to get under your skin and it's worked.

Most successful trolls can get two unsuspecting people like you and another to begin fighting between yourselves and silently extricate himself out of the fight. You now have an online enemy and he's giggling like a monkey at the two of you.

Sci-fi modelers tend to be very tech savvy and a smaller niche group among modelers. When they have flame wars it's normally so bad that some modelers will leave the web site and find a new modeling home. The flamers will stalk/follow/hound the departing modelers at other web sites until they get bored or feel they have sufficiently defeated their opponent. Even the sleepy sci-fi modeling forum here has been a stopping point in an epic sci-fi modeling flame war.

It is a form of bullying and internet trolls have caused suicides in some instances.

As a lawyer, you know the Bill of Rights says that Congress shall pass no laws preventing freedom of speech. But modeling forums are more like sports bars. You may have the right to say whatever you want, but the owners of the bar also have the right to toss you out for what you say. Nothing stopping you from standing on a soapbox in a public square. Nothing stopping you from creating your own web page and spouting out whatever "keyboard courage"* your fingers type.

*Keyboard courage is a term used to describe the phenomenon that many people can say to others due to the anonymity of the internet that they would never dare to say to someone in person.

They are also sometimes called flamers.  To me, the distinction is the flamer may kind of anti-social or not understand polite conventions, maybe does not realize his post may be inflamatory, while the troll is intentionally trying to start a fight.

From what I seen on various forums,Internet Trolls usually post a delibertly provactive answer or a outrageous post just to get reaction and blow up a topic.Could be hateful comments or off topic.

Not sure beyond that. Here is a online definition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)