American Sniper

Gents,

This conversation has gone off track, so it's now closed.

Regards, Aaron

GMorrison,

     I did NOT "get on politics."  And I cannot help but notice that you didn't have anything to say to the first people who brought up Ms Fonda or Mr. Moore.  That you instead choose to say something to me about it.

     As for what I "repeated," it was in a film that was shown in class when I was in school and it was footage of her, not a re-enactment.

     As for what happened between Rex and me, if anyone wishes to discuss it you are free to contact me via the PM subsystem.

"PS- Best keep politics/controversy out of this.  Just want to know how you saw it?  Hollywood-ish? Accurate?  Accurate w/ a side of Hollywood?"  

Hey guys I wrote this at the begging of the thread.  I enjoy an incite about history, politics etc as much as you guys but we just cant do that here.  I really don't want the thread locked.  

DC- You need to get off the politics. It's not welcome here. We all try to get along without resorting to this kind of bad discussion.

Devil Dawg has it pretty much correct.

She's spent the last 40 years dealing with explanations of how that all went, so either you just aren't paying attention or you think the rest of the world isn't.

No where is there any credible record that she said what you repeated from wherever you got it.

"Something to that effect..". Nicely cited quote, sir.

I'm never going to like you or have any use for your contributions here since you pretty much hounded our friend Rex off of the forum. Bully.

Devil Dawg

Just recently read about Jane Fonda (I've forgotten where I read this) offering an apology of sorts for her actions in Viet Nam. It might've been on-line somewhere. Anyways, she said the photo of her on the AAA battery was a set-up. She had no idea they were gonna take a photo of her sitting there. She had asked to sit down, the soldiers guided her over there (she wasn't paying attention to where she was being guided), and before she noticed what she was sitting on, they snapped the picture. Could be true... Maybe not.

DD,

     I remember seeing footage of her in Nam, where I think she might have been at that same AAA battery.  And she was asked "If an American aircraft flew overhead what would you do?"  Or something to that effect, and she responded with "I'd shoot it down."

     IF that is true, it kind of casts doubts on her comment that you're recalling.

     Either way, I as you and others have said, feel that she needs to answer for her actions during Nam.

Devil Dawg

Haven't seem it yet, but from all the comments being made about it in the media, I am definitely gonna see it. I was planning on seeing it anyway, due to it being one of Clint's babies.

I can tell you one thing, though - most (if not all) of the negative comments are coming from people who have never been in combat OR the military. Contrary to popular belief, us military types who have trained for combat KNOW what we're gonna face if we have to go, and we do not want to go to war unless we absolutely have to. All the non-military types who think that we love war, that we just have this over-whelming urge to be in battle, have got it all wrong. I have trained for war, and have been in a combat zone (1st Persian Gulf war), but have never seen combat (thank goodness). But, I would still go if I was needed. I would go to help defend this great nation that we live in, and to keep it great. And all of my fellow Marines, soldiers, sailors, Coast Guardsmen, and airmen, I think, would whole-heartedly agree with me on that.

Rant is over. Hope I didn't get the thread locked for that........

DD,

     I agree, my first Duty Station was Camp Casey, S. Korea which even though it wasn't an active comabt zone I did receive hazzardous duty pay.  Then my next Duty Station was Ft. Riley, Ks, where my Unit came down on orders for Desert Storm/Shield.

     Even though my Unit 1/3 FA came down on orders to go over, I had to stay behind because of needed eye surgery.  Although sadly, I'd heard more than one solider talking about how their parents were telling them not to go, and that they'd "protect" them.

     I'm sorry, but there is no way that "mommy and daddy" could have protected them from a charge of desertion and a dishonorable discharge.

     We signed up to do a job, and that job included the very possiblity that we would not only might have to go to war, but that we'd have to lay down our lives for our country.  As a good friend of mine has said, that is the blank check that we all signed when we enlisted.

     Also anyone who has heard Chyrl Wright's song "The Bumber of My SUV," all of the Soliders, Airmen, Saliors, and Marines had it right.  As did you, we do NOT want war but we are willing to do what is needed to protect our nation and it's freedoms.

     You should see the size of the new MHC that they're building Bay Pines, "my VA."  Mental Health is going to have it's only MULTI floor building.

Agreed I'd like to do that as well!

Finally saw the movie last weekend. Extremely impressive. Gotta read the book now.

HI !

    My Step-Grandfather was in CHOSIN , A place Frozen in many Korean War vets minds .( No Pun intended or given ) .  He positively would NOT speak about it . Then I came back from the little fooferrah in the TONKIN Gulf where my ship was involved .

   Then , he told me what happened there .

His comment was that I had to #$%@ my pants in facing enemy fire , Before I would understand . I think he was right too !    T.B.

OOOOH-RAAH ! !

Saw the movie last night with the wife.  I loved the movie but the extreme violence and language was too much for her.  I asked her ahead of time if she was sure she wanted to go.  I wouldn't advise anyone to bring a girlfriend(she might not talk to you again) or young kids to the movie. It will have an effect on them.

Jim 

Just recently read about Jane Fonda (I've forgotten where I read this) offering an apology of sorts for her actions in Viet Nam. It might've been on-line somewhere. Anyways, she said the photo of her on the AAA battery was a set-up. She had no idea they were gonna take a photo of her sitting there. She had asked to sit down, the soldiers guided her over there (she wasn't paying attention to where she was being guided), and before she noticed what she was sitting on, they snapped the picture. Could be true... Maybe not.

Doog I have no idea what your coordinates are, probably Greece right now.

Rock and Roll.

Listening to Diana Krall on NPR the other day flaking her new album.

What do your kids listen to, jazz?

"Currently they are practicing "Smoke on the Water"!"

I didn't forget Korea, my dad did his service 1950-1954 but was stateside the whole time, a weekend warrior, National Guard units went over first in that conflict and were really carved up, BTW. My father-in-law declined to attend the ceremony for his second Bronze Star in 1952 because he figured he'd be shipped out. Had fought his war in ETO, 4 years there. Adequately served his country I think.

What Jane Fonda stands for or stood for I couldn't say. Married to both Tom Hayden and Ted Turner? Me thinks it's all about the attention. But she's just one person.

MM on the other hand gets it out there with an agenda. Never mind if he's right or wrong; it's obvious the man has a passion and he connects with it.

Coolidge did come up with the love it or leave it quote. Consider though, isn't it better to love it and/or change it?

Nah man.  You dont want to visit.  Too hot.

GMorrison

goldhammer

Have not seen it, but read the book prior to Chris' passing.  Plan on going.

He did a job that has to be done at times, and had the skill set to do it well.

I agree with DD on the ones tearing it down, they have no idea of what service is like, and that I would gladly take up the colors again if asked. 

I can only hope the Moore has space reserved in the same warm room as Fonda, who I will never forgive.

  ...the red diaper doper Michael Moore left wing nut side.

Whaa?? Is there really such a thing?!? lol

Do you have coordinates for my Garmin? ha ha

GMorrison -

I don't plan on taking my son to see American Sniper since it's rated R. However, Unbroken is rated PG-13 so I have no problem taking him if he wishes to see it.

PS - Michael Moore is an idiot anyways.

I will agree whole heartedly on the freedom to disagree, but when that disagreement turn traitorus as in Fonda's case, or is nothing but a continious tirade against everything in this country as in Moore's case, they ought to just get out, renounce their citizenship and never return.  They have gone past the point of disagreement IMO.

And since they have the freedom do do what they do, and I have done the deed, I also have the freedom to express my eternal dislike, and in some cases even more for what they think they stand for.

And you forgot the fourth case load----Korea, and particuarly the Chosin Few.  I am reminded of them every time one vehicle comes into the shop, as the plate on her car was issued to one of the survivors of that march.  And I don't charge her for my time on her car when the boss allows it.

goldhammer

Have not seen it, but read the book prior to Chris' passing.  Plan on going.

He did a job that has to be done at times, and had the skill set to do it well.

I agree with DD on the ones tearing it down, they have no idea of what service is like, and that I would gladly take up the colors again if asked. 

I can only hope the Moore has space reserved in the same warm room as Fonda, who I will never forgive.

Isn't the whole point of defense to allow everyone to be able to express an opinion? The irony here confuses me. Better to let folks tie their shoe laces together when they get up in the morning and do a face plant than wish them I'll. And just to be clear, the criticism isn't just from the red diaper doper Michael Moore left wing nut side. I haven't seen it but don't plan to, simply because I believe it's well made and sounds to be sincere and honest, but would deeply disturb my already fragile grip on trying to be positive about anything anymore. I do think the outing if you will of the pervasiveness of PTSD is long long overdue and can only bring good to the world. I've lived through a society that has dealt with the last three major case loads- WW2; Vietnam and now the Gulf Wars. It's very clear to me that the perception has gone from cowardice to a feeling that folks couldn't handle it; to a real concern about what the consequences of extreme violence can be. And I question the wisdom of taking an 11 year old to see it.

Heh - doog, my wife wants to see it as well as I. She and my 11 year old son even wants to see Unbroken too.

I saw it and it's an outstanding film. Very true to life. I had a knot in my stomach most of the film.

Acting is outstanding!!!

Don't believe negative hype I learned long ago not to trust the "Red Diaper Doper Baby" types. This film gives good account of what our troops undergo to protect us.. I have had the "privilege"  to work with vets during my medical training I have very deep respect for them.

See the film!!!

To paraphrase Pappy..." If this story was to have a moral, just name a hero, and I'll prove he's a bum"

Real heroes truly are complex charecters, not black and white cut outs.

Yup they are a very necessary asset to their fellow squad and others too.  

One thing I didn't mention was the audio and visuals for the weapons/damage were very good.  No ridiculous explosions and guns that sound like 22's.  

It's got a lot of bad press. I'll reserve comment till I've seen it.but snipers are a necessary evil in combat

People seem too eager to assume that war hero = good & noble person. You don't have to look back very far to another case that had much closer ties to the hobby industry, based on the number of 'Showtime 100' models that used to get made....

Randall "Duke' Cunningham served his country courageously and skillfully in Vietnam, including the mission where 3 MiGs were downed. Years later, in another position of public trust as a U.S. Congressman, he betrayed that trust to a degree that is still shocking.

Before all the flag wavers go off on me as just another hero bashing post to tear people down, serving the country in the military is a fine and noble pursuit. I have a friend's son who as a Navy Corpsman is in Liberia working to contain Ebola. I couldn't be more proud of what he is doing. But military service is not a free pass to other bad behavior. Just like anyone else, service members come in all stripes. It is entirely possible that Chris Kyle was both a war hero, and a liar. One does not excuse the other....

A lot of the criticism that I've seen pertained to the historical aspects of the film and the context that the conflict was presented in, rather than criticism against the men and women who were called to serve.  The critics make some valid points but seem to ignore the artistic license that is usually present in these types of films.  I've not yet seen anybody claim that the film was fully historically accurate, or intended to be.  Afterall, it's Hollywood and the business is entertainment. 

Don

I can see females and even guys too that may find it pretty intense.  You could tell many couples came for a date night.  I wouldn't suggest that.  The taliban/civi operations and encounters are pretty intense and brutal.  There is a part that is portraying the barbarity of the Taliban upon the villagers in the towns.  Wont say what happens other than it was....  yeah

But yeah saw a lot of couples there.   Some fairly young.  The girls looked teary and and upset.  Us dudes just looked stunned as we left.

the doog

Haven't seen it; the boss said "no"; din't seem like her kinda movie. I'll probably rent it at some point when she's away for the weekend on a girl's weekend.

Boy that sounds familiar... 

Cody,thanks for some well thought out comments.I look forward to seeing it also.