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Krakow, Auschwitz & Birkenau

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  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Poland
Posted by Aleksander on Tuesday, July 21, 2015 6:09 PM

@pordoi - thank you for sharing your photos and your thoughts...

As a Pole, I appreciate your feedback and I'm glad that you like Kraków.

History is sometimes difficult to assess, specially from a distance, but the crime should not be forgotten.

Aleksander

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by pordoi on Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:30 PM

fermis

I will be visiting Nuremburg this December.

As much as I want to see these things...there's a part of me that doesn't want to see it at all.

 

Yes, that I understand.  This was my 3rd trip to Krakow; I didn't visit the camps on the first trips because I wasn't sure that I wanted to see what actually happened there.  Regardless of how you feel now, you will come away thinking that nobody should neglect to visit these sites and exhibitions.

 

Don

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by pordoi on Tuesday, July 21, 2015 3:20 PM

murph

On each piece of cardboard was a person's name, where they were from, birth year or date (if known), the year they were murdered and the name of the camp where they were killed.  If you couldn't look at that display and not feel any sense of dispair, you're not human.

There is a similar display at Auschwitz.  After making the initial selection, those who were chosen for entry into the camp were photographed and personal information was recorded, including date of entry.  Later, the date of their death (or execution) was also recorded.  Much of this information was recovered when the camps were liberated , and today, the halls at Auschwitz are lined with hundreds and hundreds of these photos, with names and dates of entry and death attached.  It is a powerful exhibit that associates face and names; the average life span of a prisoner was about 3 months. 

 

Don

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Redcliffe, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Aussie Mick on Sunday, July 19, 2015 1:53 AM

We have seen the enemy,...and he is us!

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, July 19, 2015 12:35 AM

Jeremy, I know what you mean and I already have my spot picked out and paid for.

I have a good friend who is a statistical mathematician for the DoD. Smart guy, three PhD's.

His conclusion is that the easiest place to get lost is the place with the most people.

Unfortunately, if we have an idea of where to go that no one has figured out, it's old news.

He wrote a story that was published in the New Yorker, about how a person longing to get away from it all moves to X, north of Moose's Armpit. Finds a small hunting shop and orders 10,000 rounds of 7.62 Nato.

Sales guy says.. "Third order for that here in a week".

Better to find a nice little town with a good coffee shop, bakery where they call you "Hon".

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: hamburg michigan
Posted by fermis on Saturday, July 18, 2015 9:46 PM

murph

Last fall, my wife and I took a European River cruise.  One of the stops was in Nuremberg.  I went on the historical day trip and saw the outside of the building that held the SS headquarters and the courthouse where the trials were held.  The courtroom is still in use today.  Time constraints did not allow us to enter the buildings.  We also went to the Zeppelin Field where the Nazi Party rallies were held.  I cannot describe the emotions and feelings that overcame me when I stood in the exact spot where the little corporal with the funny moustache stood and reviewed the troops and spewed his tripe.  The group then went to the Documentation Center Museum (Google it) for a 3 hour self guided tour.  The Germans certainly do take ownership of what they did during WWII.  Some of the displays and artifacts were so chilling that I actually saw people in tears.

One of the most poignant displays was set up in an area that resembled a set of train tracks.  There were wooden ties and set on top of the ties were glass rails of neon light.  On the left wall was the names of the death camps; Auschwitz, Belzec, Chelmno, Majdenek, Sobibor and Treblinka.  The 'stones' between the ties were pieces of differently shaded grey cardboard.  On each piece of cardboard was a person's name, where they were from, birth year or date (if known), the year they were murdered and the name of the camp where they were killed.  If you couldn't look at that display and not feel any sense of dispair, you're not human.

When my wife was working in Berlin a few years ago, she and a girlfriend went to the Sachsenhausen concentration camp near Berlin.  She said it was the most depressing and frightening place she has ever visited.

Thank you for posting your photos and sharing your experiences.

Mike

I will be visiting Nuremburg this December.

As much as I want to see these things...there's a part of me that doesn't want to see it at all.

After the trip, I may just move to the middle of Canada, where the wild things are, and never have to deal with the human race again.Tongue Tied

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: West of the rock and east of the hard place!
Posted by murph on Saturday, July 18, 2015 10:51 AM

Last fall, my wife and I took a European River cruise.  One of the stops was in Nuremberg.  I went on the historical day trip and saw the outside of the building that held the SS headquarters and the courthouse where the trials were held.  The courtroom is still in use today.  Time constraints did not allow us to enter the buildings.  We also went to the Zeppelin Field where the Nazi Party rallies were held.  I cannot describe the emotions and feelings that overcame me when I stood in the exact spot where the little corporal with the funny moustache stood and reviewed the troops and spewed his tripe.  The group then went to the Documentation Center Museum (Google it) for a 3 hour self guided tour.  The Germans certainly do take ownership of what they did during WWII.  Some of the displays and artifacts were so chilling that I actually saw people in tears.

One of the most poignant displays was set up in an area that resembled a set of train tracks.  There were wooden ties and set on top of the ties were glass rails of neon light.  On the left wall was the names of the death camps; Auschwitz, Belzec, Chelmno, Majdenek, Sobibor and Treblinka.  The 'stones' between the ties were pieces of differently shaded grey cardboard.  On each piece of cardboard was a person's name, where they were from, birth year or date (if known), the year they were murdered and the name of the camp where they were killed.  If you couldn't look at that display and not feel any sense of dispair, you're not human.

When my wife was working in Berlin a few years ago, she and a girlfriend went to the Sachsenhausen concentration camp near Berlin.  She said it was the most depressing and frightening place she has ever visited.

Thank you for posting your photos and sharing your experiences.

Mike

Retired and living the dream!

  • Member since
    August 2008
Posted by tankerbuilder on Wednesday, July 1, 2015 9:18 AM

Although this is staggering ;

  There is a fact that remains hidden , except to the most astute history student concerning the Attrocities .When in danger of losing , the Leadership started killing officers and enlisted in all branches of their services , that the Gestapo said were Not of the Leadership's party .

     If there was such doubt of their convictions or beliefs they were summarily shot down in the streets and elsewhere . Suprisingly many were not Jewish either ! The Madman was determined if he couldn't lead it , the " Reich " would , as well as GERMANY herself  cease to exist !

They almost achieved that goal . Humans can be the most brutal to others because of poisoned minds and hearts .I have been to those places and my Blood runs cold when I see the same thing happening in the name of a belief system .

    You all know I love my adopted country ,  I got it as a birthday gift from my adoptive , New citizen parents. Now that's a gift to beat all isn't it ? I didn't even know until my dad told me on my 12th birthday !

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: hamburg michigan
Posted by fermis on Saturday, June 6, 2015 11:01 AM

pordoi

Scribings on the stone walls of the barracks:

Makes me wonder if I see any brick that were laid by my uncles. 

My moms mom was sent here in 1923, her brothers stayed in Poland. They ended up as forced labor (brick layers) at a couple "camps".

I didn't find this out until after I became a brick layer...my Gramma..."My brothers were brick layers too...the Germans took them and made them work on the buildings at Auschwitz and some other places", she casually mentioned...."strange thing is, we are Catholics, not Jews".

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Wednesday, June 3, 2015 8:02 PM

No problems Pordoi,just commenting on sad state of world affairs You echo my hopes though for the future.

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Wednesday, June 3, 2015 7:41 PM

Sad that the fanatics in the Middle East still denies to this day that the Holocaust never really happened.

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Posted by pordoi on Wednesday, June 3, 2015 6:10 PM

the doog

Tojo72

A noble sentiment which we all can agree with,but sadly the beat goes on,perhaps in lesser scale,but no end in sight.Check this out :

www.genocidewatch.org/.../genocidespoliticides.html

not to mention the genocide of Christians in Syria/Iraq at the hands of ISIS

I am not making a political statement of any kind against any group in general,but the diversity of this list speaks against human nature in this matter.

 

Oh,and it looks like a great trip and great pics.

I was going to say the same thing. It hasn't ended; it's just not on such a grand scale.

I agree though; great pics.

Tojo and Karl,

      There is no doubt that this kind of atrocity is still occurring, and is unacceptable on any scale.  My trip happened to coincide with Memorial Day and I thought that it was fitting to remember all who were involved in the conflict 70 years ago.  Hopefully, by visiting this exhibit, more and more will become aware of these actions, both in the past and present, and act to prevent.  I'm a bit more optimistic about human nature than Tojo...

 

I'm certainly not trying to make a politicial statement either, but our guide said that the number of visitors to these camps has been increasing dramatically in recent years.  Maybe the younger generation is getting the message?? 

 

As an aside, some of the guides have been doing these tours for over 35 years!  Think of that... and the political climate in Poland over that time span.  These are an amazing people.

 

Don

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, June 3, 2015 9:49 AM

en.wikipedia.org/.../David_Irving

Worth reading the wiki article.

One thing I get from this is that sometimes it's human nature to get so boxed into a corner that it becomes all about the debate, not the reality.

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    March 2004
  • From: Spartanburg, SC
Posted by subfixer on Wednesday, June 3, 2015 9:40 AM

What kind of person can deny this? I just can't wrap my head around it. It is kind of like the conspiracy theorists that deny the moon landings, is it so hard to believe that humans are capable of this?

I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

  • Member since
    January 2007
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, June 3, 2015 9:28 AM

Tojo72

A noble sentiment which we all can agree with,but sadly the beat goes on,perhaps in lesser scale,but no end in sight.Check this out :

www.genocidewatch.org/.../genocidespoliticides.html

not to mention the genocide of Christians in Syria/Iraq at the hands of ISIS

I am not making a political statement of any kind against any group in general,but the diversity of this list speaks against human nature in this matter.

 

Oh,and it looks like a great trip and great pics.

I was going to say the same thing. It hasn't ended; it's just not on such a grand scale.

I agree though; great pics.

  • Member since
    December 2013
Posted by CodyJ on Saturday, May 30, 2015 2:04 AM

Thank you so much for sharing.  Really very interesting!

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Saturday, May 30, 2015 1:11 AM

A beautiful city considering all the horrors attached to it. Thanks for sharing your pictures.

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Corpus Christi, Tx
Posted by mustang1989 on Wednesday, May 27, 2015 9:45 PM

Thanks for posting that Don. What a powerful exhibit that is. My wife and I went to the Holocaust Museum in Dallas about 17 years ago. The entrance into the museum was through an original section of a boxcar that the Germans used to transport prisoners to the camps. Eerie feeling being inside that thing. I can't imagine being in the actual camp. Like the hair you mentioned there were dentures, gold teeth, jewelry and some other items on display that would send chills down a guys spine. I think were all hopeful that this kind of history never repeats itself.

                   

 Forum | Modelers Social Club Forum (proboards.com) 

  • Member since
    September 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Wednesday, May 27, 2015 9:35 PM

Thanks for posting these.  Some chilling photos among the beauty of the city.

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Tuesday, May 26, 2015 9:27 AM

A noble sentiment which we all can agree with,but sadly the beat goes on,perhaps in lesser scale,but no end in sight.Check this out :

www.genocidewatch.org/.../genocidespoliticides.html

not to mention the genocide of Christians in Syria/Iraq at the hands of ISIS

I am not making a political statement of any kind against any group in general,but the diversity of this list speaks against human nature in this matter.

 

Oh,and it looks like a great trip and great pics.

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Tuesday, May 26, 2015 8:55 AM

If anyone ever takes the Band of Brothers Tour, there is a package deal where it does take you to the concentration camps. Here's the link:

www.beyondbandofbrothers.com/itineraries

This is something I've always wanted to do with my sister since we're both WW2 and BoB junkies.

  • Member since
    February 2010
  • From: Maine
Posted by Stage_Left on Monday, May 25, 2015 1:46 PM

Thanks for posting, Don. A warning indeed, one that we should never forget. At the other end of human capacity, Krakow certainly does look like a beautiful city!

Dave

  • Member since
    June 2013
  • From: Jax, FL
Posted by Viejo on Monday, May 25, 2015 10:57 AM
NEVER again.

  • Member since
    January 2013
Posted by jibber on Monday, May 25, 2015 7:36 AM

It's difficult to imagine what one human can do to another, we should never forget.

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: East Bethel, MN
Posted by midnightprowler on Monday, May 25, 2015 5:33 AM

And some deny it ever happened. Sad. Thanks for sharing!

Hi, I am Lee, I am a plastiholic.

Co. A, 682 Engineers, Ltchfield, MN, 1980-1986

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 1 Corinthians 15:51-54

Ask me about Speedway Decals

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Louisville, KY
Krakow, Auschwitz & Birkenau
Posted by pordoi on Sunday, May 24, 2015 3:39 PM

     I just returned from a business trip to Krakow, Poland and had the opportunity to visit the Auschwitz/Birkenau sites one afternoon.  In my opinion, this is something everyone should do once.  The sites are set up with excellent tour guides for groups, but can also be toured by individuals.  Several exhibits really illustrate the magnitude of the camp, such as the room that contains 3000 kilograms of human hair that was found at the site when it was liberated by the Russians.  For this exhibit and several others, the taking of photographs was prohibited, but the guides allowed and encouraged photography elsewhere in the camp.  Here are a few shots:

The main gate to Auschwitz;  Arbeit Macht Frei:

Some of the reconstructed barracks; each held several hundred individuals:

Scribings on the stone walls of the barracks:

An electrified barbed wire fence and guard tower:

The main gate into Birkenau:

Part of the Memorial exhibit:

The numbers are hard to comprehend:

Krakow itself is a very nice city with an excellent Old Town that is full of sites, shops and restaurants.  Certainly worthy of a few days to explore.

Here is the view down Florianska St to the Cathedral:

The Wawel Castle:

The Market Square:

and one of the many churches in Old Town:

Thanks for looking and I hope you enjoyed.

 

Don

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