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Midway (2019)

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  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Boise ID area
Posted by modelcrazy on Monday, November 11, 2019 11:01 PM

The wife and I saw it tonight and other than a few maneuvers that would not happen, it was very good. It follows the history in Shattered Sword very well. It's a shame the battle of Coral Sea was pretty much passed over. The attack on the carriers was a little confusing and you wouldn't really understand what was going on unless you were familiar with the events. I look at it like your watching it from the Japanese point of view. The movie was in constant motion with no love interest other than Lt Best' s wife and daughter.

Bottom line, I enjoyed it very much and would be happy to go again.

It's a war movie like Hollywood used to make before the 70's, besides the CGI. YesYes

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Monday, November 11, 2019 6:16 PM

A good video series is "Air Operations-Battle of Midway", found on Youtube, an 8 part series.  It is based on "Shattered Sword" in part, mostly.

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    September 2013
  • From: San Antonio, Texas
Posted by Marcus McBean on Monday, November 11, 2019 5:06 PM

GMorrison

This bears more discussion, but in Kleiss he suggests that one of his beefs with McClusky (there were many), concerned the attack on Akagi and Kaga.

On pages 198- 200, he descibes his own view of events. Akagi and Kaga sighted along with two other ships, Soryu and Hiryu which were about 10 miles further away.

McClusky"Enemy sighted!"

McClusky "All planes attack".

Here it gets messy because Bombing Six (Best), as the lead squadron and led by the AGC McCluskey, would by doctrine take the further target Akagi off to starboard and Scouting Six (Gallaher) would attack the nearer target to port, Kaga.

But the Air Group Commander, McClusky, banked hard to port ahead of them all and dove on Kaga. His wingmen, who were to remain at altitude and photograph the attack as well as provide cover; went down right behind him and so did  the first section of B-6.

Best then changed plan and took the leading three SBDs of (EDIT) B-6  off towards Akagi without McCluskey. But the rest of  (EDIT)B-6 dove on Kaga.

Best and group scored enough hits on Akagi to cripple her, and then all of B-3 arrived and seventeen SBD's dove in more regular order on her and destroyed her.

So at first there seemd to be divided sections of SBDs from Enterprise going in several different dirrections at once.

Per Japanese records from eye witnesses only three planes attack Akagi.

Indeed, Lt. Best's quick thinking after seeing McClusky's squadron heading in on the Kaga pulled out of his dive but most of his squadron followed McClusky in their dives.  Best and his two wingman who stay with him moved on to the Akagi.  Only these three planes dived on the Akagi. In the book "Shattered Sword" the three dive together in their original V-formation 75 - 100 feet apart. The first missed portside just forward of the island, the second missed just off the portside stern bending up her flight deck and jamming her rudder.  The third hit went through the deck up by the island at the edge of the middle elevator and then exploded in the upper hanger bay.  Lt. Best describes watching CAP fighters taking off during their dive, no one was looking up.  It is believed that Lt. Best bomb was the one that landed in the hanger bay and started the fireworks of exploding bombs, torpedoes and fuel.  All three planes were only carrying 1,000lb general purpose bombs, no armor or semi-armor piercing weapons.  I always wonder if they had armor piercing bombs would they have travel thru both hanger bays and not set off all of those planes in those hangers.

  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by PFJN on Monday, November 11, 2019 4:04 PM

goldhammer

 Final Countdown......carrier is transported bck to Pearl Harbor as the attack is coming in.

 

 
 
Oops, I forgot, there was actually a movie along those lines before Stick out tongue

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    August 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Monday, November 11, 2019 3:44 PM

PFJN

 

 
 
 

 

 

I thought in this version of events the US initially looses the battle but that a group of Super Heroes event a time machine to go back in time to fix things.  Or am I getting my movies mixed up Tongue Tied

 

 

Final Countdown......carrier is transported bck to Pearl Harbor as the attack is coming in.

  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by PFJN on Monday, November 11, 2019 3:42 PM

Rob Gronovius

I took my 15 year old son with me yesterday and saw it at a matinee. It was a very good movie, enjoyable. I do not know a lot of the actual details of the battle so I don't know what's correct about who did what.

But I do know that the US Navy wins the battle [spoiler alert].

 

I thought in this version of events the US initially looses the battle but that a group of Super Heroes event a time machine to go back in time to fix things.  Or am I getting my movies mixed up Tongue Tied

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, November 11, 2019 1:58 PM

Rob Gronovius

I took my 15 year old son with me yesterday and saw it at a matinee. It was a very good movie, enjoyable. I do not know a lot of the actual details of the battle so I don't know what's correct about who did what.

But I do know that the US Navy wins the battle [spoiler alert].

 

Lol! 

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Monday, November 11, 2019 12:54 PM

I took my 15 year old son with me yesterday and saw it at a matinee. It was a very good movie, enjoyable. I do not know a lot of the actual details of the battle so I don't know what's correct about who did what.

But I do know that the US Navy wins the battle [spoiler alert].

  • Member since
    May 2016
Posted by B-36Andy on Monday, November 11, 2019 9:32 AM

Smithsonian channel doing a Midway history program tonite ( Monday)

Andy

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, November 9, 2019 11:49 AM

Actually it was Best and the first division of VB-6 that dove on Akagi. The rest of VB-6 and all of VS-6, aside from a couple of VS-6 aircraft that ran out of fuel dived on Kaga, in the manner mentioned. VB-6 and VS-6 did dive intermixed in something of a gaggle.

VB-3 dove in an orderly manner on Soryu, although several dove with no bomb due to arming malfunctions.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, November 9, 2019 11:14 AM

This bears more discussion, but in Kleiss he suggests that one of his beefs with McClusky (there were many), concerned the attack on Akagi and Kaga.

On pages 198- 200, he descibes his own view of events. Akagi and Kaga sighted along with two other ships, Soryu and Hiryu which were about 10 miles further away.

McClusky"Enemy sighted!"

McClusky "All planes attack".

Here it gets messy because Bombing Six (Best), as the lead squadron and led by the AGC McCluskey, would by doctrine take the further target Akagi off to starboard and Scouting Six (Gallaher) would attack the nearer target to port, Kaga.

But the Air Group Commander, McClusky, banked hard to port ahead of them all and dove on Kaga. His wingmen, who were to remain at altitude and photograph the attack as well as provide cover; went down right behind him and so did  the first section of B-6.

Best then changed plan and took the leading three SBDs of (EDIT) B-6  off towards Akagi without McCluskey. But the rest of  (EDIT)B-6 dove on Kaga.

Best and group scored enough hits on Akagi to cripple her, and then all of B-3 arrived and seventeen SBD's dove in more regular order on her and destroyed her.

So at first there seemd to be divided sections of SBDs from Enterprise going in several different dirrections at once.

 

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Saturday, November 9, 2019 10:48 AM

Saw it yesterday and was favorably impressed.

Much less of the 'spot the celebrity' action than in the old Charlton Heston version [or maybe I'm just too old and out-of-the-loop to recognize anybody], though both Dennis Quaid as Halsey and Woody Harrelson as Nimitz did well. The over-enthusiastic CG and some lapses in military detail were only to be expected...but I was relieved to see the soap-opera excesses of past modern-era 'epics' were absent, with just enough personal story here and there to ground things well.

Go see it. You'll have fun looking for nits...but I think you'll appreciate this important story still being told by contemporary filmmakers who obviously care about the history.

Greg

 George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, November 9, 2019 10:23 AM

Looking on IMDB the reviews are pretty favorable for the most part. The biggest gripes look to be about the CGI. 

But yes, the doctine was for SBDs to dive in sections or in trail, one after the  next, not en masse. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Katy (Houston), TX
Posted by Aggieman on Friday, November 8, 2019 11:05 PM

I just got home from seeing this movie.

If you have any interest whatsoever in WWII US Naval action, go see this one.  I've read Shattered Sword, as well as a couple of other books on Midway, and as far as my amateur historian self can tell, this movie is as accurate as one can expect out of Hollywood.  Now, there are always rivet counters who will claim that a Devastator would not be fitted out with both a torpedo and the two wing-mounted bombs.  Probably so, but something like that should not impact one's enjoyment of the film.

The G3M Nell bombers come in February 1942 when the USN attacked an island in the Marshalls.  That sequence was not rubbish.  They do depict the airman who the Japanese executed.  And the movie covers a lot of ground - from Pearl Harbor to Midway.  It's the first time I recall seeing a movie with anything regarding Coral Sea being depicted.  Not a long sequence, but more to set the stage for the coming battle at Midway, with the USN losing the original Lexington there and the Yorktown heavily damaged.

I think the depiction of the Dauntless dive bombing was probably incorrect, as I believe they did not all dive en masse (I do stand to be corrected here), and I'm doubting that the Japanese could put up the heavy AA fire as depicted.  But visually, it is quite fantastic.  Think of the original Star Wars when the X-Wings dove into the trench; they managed to capture that same pit-of-your-stomach feel for the many dives the US took on the Japanese carriers.

I really enjoyed the movie, and now seriously want to build a Dauntless or even a Devastator (but unfortunately, I have two Monogram B-29s on my bench right now, so there is no room for anything else; heck, there is not really room for both those Superforts either).

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, October 25, 2019 4:13 PM

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Boise ID area
Posted by modelcrazy on Friday, October 25, 2019 4:03 PM

stikpusher

 

 
richs26

One of the trailers I saw shows Japanese twin engined aircraft bombing and going kamikaze on a US carrier which is complete rubbish.

 

 

 

That occurred during one of the early 1942 raids in the Gilberts & Marshall's. Bruno Gaido jumped into the gunners mount on a tied down SBD and fired on the bomber which then just missed the ship and clipped off the tail of the SBD. He was credited with saving Enterprise from actually being hit by the bomber.

 

 

The bomber was a G3M Nell, the predecessor to the G4M Betty.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, October 25, 2019 3:51 PM

GMorrison

That sounds like it fits into the story arc of the movie.

 

Exactly. The previews lead me to think it's gonna show events from Pearl Harbor to Midway mainly from the Enterprise perspective, using actual historical personages. The 1976 film concentrated more from the Yorktown perspective for the USN at sea scenes, and came up with fictitous characters to do so. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, October 25, 2019 3:16 PM

the Baron

 

 
GMorrison

VS-6

Bruno Peter Gaido AMM 1/c Captured 6/4/42, executed 6/15/42

 

 

More accurate to say that Gaido and his pilot were murdered.

Not really. I'm quoting from the book, and either way he was killed by the Japanese.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, October 25, 2019 3:13 PM

That sounds like it fits into the story arc of the movie.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, October 25, 2019 2:41 PM

richs26

One of the trailers I saw shows Japanese twin engined aircraft bombing and going kamikaze on a US carrier which is complete rubbish.

 

That occurred during one of the early 1942 raids in the Gilberts & Marshall's. Bruno Gaido jumped into the gunners mount on a tied down SBD and fired on the bomber which then just missed the ship and clipped off the tail of the SBD. He was credited with saving Enterprise from actually being hit by the bomber.

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Friday, October 25, 2019 2:04 PM

One of the trailers I saw shows Japanese twin engined aircraft bombing and going kamikaze on a US carrier which is complete rubbish.

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Friday, October 25, 2019 2:01 PM

Here is an excellent 8 part documentary on Midway based on Shattered Sword:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHhlR-Cxheg&list=PLw9X_X7UNQvLPMGkOFCAxD9o5JZzOt9Z5

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Friday, October 25, 2019 1:36 PM

GMorrison

VS-6

Bruno Peter Gaido AMM 1/c Captured 6/4/42, executed 6/15/42

More accurate to say that Gaido and his pilot were murdered.

If I remember correctly, the skipper of the destroyer that picked them up would have been tried as a war criminal but he didn't survive.  Or that might have been the skipper of the destroyer that picked up Ensign Osmus, who was also murdered by the Japanese.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Friday, October 25, 2019 12:58 PM

stikpusher

 

 
goldhammer

Should be rosters of assigned personel somewhere in the records of each squadron on the USN records.  

Might take awhile and don't know what the $$ would be to dig it out on a request to the Navy.

 

 

 

They exist. Along with the aircraft flown and disposition of aircrew and aircraft.

 

The After Action Reports for both Midway and Coral Sea are available online.  Just google for them.

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    May 2016
Posted by B-36Andy on Friday, October 25, 2019 12:10 PM

Thanks guys---

At this Midway reunion there were 15-20 in attendance.

Andy

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, October 25, 2019 10:05 AM

VS-6

Enlisted Sailors

Thomas Edward Merritt, ACRM

Floyd Delbert Adkins, AMM 2/c

Erwin G. Bailey, AMM 3/c

William Hart Bergin, RM 1/c

Thomas James Bruce, Sea 2/c

Milton Wayne Clarke, AMM 2/c KIA 6/6/42

David Bruce Craig, RM 3/c MIA 6/4/42

Ferdinand Joseph Cupples, RM 1/c

John Dewey Dance, RM 3/c

Joseph Ferdinand DeLuca, RM 1/c

Bruno Peter Gaido AMM 1/c Captured 6/4/42, executed 6/15/42

Louis Dale Hanson, RM 3/c MIA 6/4/42

Donald Hoff, RM 3/c

Earl Edward Howell, RM 2/c

Roy L. Hoss, RM 3/c

Frederick Charles Jeck, RM 3/c MIA 6/4/42

Porter William Pixley, RM 3/c

John Warren Snowden, RM 3/c

William Henry Stambaugh, RM 1/c MIA 6/4/42

Alfred R. Stitzelberger, RM 2/c

Thurman Randolph Swindell, AOM 1/c KIA 6/4/42

-Kleiss 2017, Appendix

 

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, October 25, 2019 9:54 AM

goldhammer

Should be rosters of assigned personel somewhere in the records of each squadron on the USN records.  

Might take awhile and don't know what the $$ would be to dig it out on a request to the Navy.

 

They exist. Along with the aircraft flown and disposition of aircrew and aircraft.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, October 25, 2019 9:53 AM

VS-6

Officers:

LT Wilmer Earl Gallaher CO.

LT Clarence Earle Dickinson Jr.

LT Frank Anthony Patriarca

LT Reginald Rutherford

LT Charles Rollins Ware MIA 6/4/42

LT Edward Thorpe Deacon

LTJG Norman Jack Kleiss

LTJG Benjamin Henry Troemel

LTJG John Norman West

ENS Robert Keith Campbell

ENS ames Campbell Dexter

ENS Cleo John Dobson

ENS Thomas F. Durkin Jr.

Ensign William Edward Hall

ENS Alden Wilbur Hanson

ENS Richard Alonzo Jaccard

ENS John Cady Lough MIA 6/4/42

ENS John Reginald McCarthy

ENS Milford Austin Merrill

ENS Vernon Larsen Micheel

ENS Franklin Woodrow O'Flaherty Captured 6/4/42, executed 6/15/42

ENS Carl David Peiffer MIA 6/4/42

ENS John Quincy Roberst KIA 6/4/42

ENS William Robinson Pittman

ENS Horace Irvin Proulx

ENS Eldor Ernst Rodenburg

ENS James Arnold Shelton MIA 6/4/42

ENS Reid Wentworth Stone

ENS Clarence Earl Vammen Jr. KIA 6/6/42

- Kleiss 2017, Appendix

 

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Friday, October 25, 2019 9:51 AM

Should be rosters of assigned personel somewhere in the records of each squadron on the USN records.  

Might take awhile and don't know what the $$ would be to dig it out on a request to the Navy.

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