PFJN

 

 

Rob Gronovius

I took my 15 year old son with me yesterday and saw it at a matinee. It was a very good movie, enjoyable. I do not know a lot of the actual details of the battle so I don't know what's correct about who did what.

But I do know that the US Navy wins the battle [spoiler alert].

 

 

 

 

I thought in this version of events the US initially looses the battle but that a group of Super Heroes event a time machine to go back in time to fix things.  Or am I getting my movies mixed up 

 

There is actually a book trilogy where that is the basic premise, the Axis of Time trilogy.  A multinational naval fleet, including modern German and Japanese ships, from the 2020s is teleported back in time and lands smack in the middle of the American fleet before the battle.

As far as the movie goes, I was pleasantly surprised.  I am very glad they did not wander down the path of Pearl Harbor with extra interpersonal stories.

Just saw it yesterday and I think they got it about 90% right. Has to be a record for Hollywood. Yes; the SBD’s and Zeros did some interesting maneuvers but overall they really keep to the story line without a lot of added distractions. Was surprised and pleased with Woody Harrelson as Nimitz. I was afraid I wouldn’t be able to shake the image of his character in Cheers; but he did an excellent job. Without being a spoiler, my only real disappointment was *** Best’s second dive. Kinda reminded me of Slim Pickens in Dr. Strangelove. If you’ve seen em both you’ll know what I mean. All in all; great movie and I might actually go see it again. Last time I did that was Star Wars; (the 1977 release)!!!

Hmmm, I'm on vacation/holiday but most of what I've heard has been good to great. Really looking forward to seeing it when I get home!

Thanks for the comments guys!!!

Although some jerk gave me spoilers- the USN wins- ...

I saw the movie last night and thought it was entertaining and did well at getting the message of what the war was like at the begining of WW2 to this new generation.  The writing and acting was really good. I was questioning why they completely left out the role of the American fighters.  The special effects, well, some shots of the Enterprise and close ups of the SBDs were really good.  The rest looked like it was left over stock from World of Warships.  In fact, watching the battle scenes made me think I was watching one long World of Warships trailer. The landing scenes were almost cartoonish. The chase through the valley and the divebomb scenes were reminiscent of the attack on the Death Star.  As Best was diving, I was hearing in my head a voice saying " Use the Force Richard, use the Force"!

With my banter aside, I really enjoyed this movie.  

The words murder and execution can be used interchangeably in certain circumstances. And even together on occasion. An individual can be murdered, “execution style”. As opposed to other murder methods that occur. Its something of a technicality in terminology. The person is just as dead as whether they are murdered, or executed by formal means as a result of judicial or non judicial process. 

And a long story short, the Japanese attitude towards prisoners, military, and civilian, as well as the record of their treatment of said prisoners, are well documented. Bushido was not in line with the Geneva and Hague conventions.

To repeat myself, the term "executed" is Kleiss' choice, not mine.

[quote user="the Baron"]

GMorrison

VS-6

Bruno Peter Gaido AMM 1/c Captured 6/4/42, executed 6/15/42

 

More accurate to say that Gaido and his pilot were murdered.

If I remember correctly, the skipper of the destroyer that picked them up would have been tried as a war criminal but he didn't survive.  Or that might have been the skipper of the destroyer that picked up Ensign Osmus, who was also murdered by the Japanese.

[/quote

Not an unusual event with the WW2 Japanese. The destroyer Akikaze atrocity was even worse. From Wikipedia:

“On 18 March 1942 Akikaze was the scene of a war crime. During construction of a seaplane base at Kairiru Island Akikaze evacuated the personnel of the Roman Catholic mission headquarters on that island and also several individuals from Wewak. These included Bishop Joseph Loerks, 38 missionaries (31 of whom were German nationals) including 18 nuns, one New Guinea girl, and two Chinese infants (apparently the children of Wewak storekeeper Ning Hee). The vessel then called at Manus where it picked up 20 others, again mostly Germans, including six missionaries from the Liebenzell Evangelical Mission, three other nuns and three other priests, a European infant, a plantation owner named Carl Muster and plantation overseer Peter Mathies, two Chinese, and apparently four Malays. The ostensible intention was to carry them to internment in Rabaul. "Between Manus and Rabaul each of the adults was strung up by the hands on a gallows in the stern of the vessel, shot dead by rifle or machine-gun fire, and thrown overboard. The two Chinese infants and the European baby were thrown over alive."

And these were mostly Germans, ostensibly Japanese allies.

stikpusher

Certainly far better than Pearl Harbor.

I don't know. I saw Pearl Harbor and I thought it was interesting to see World War Two as interpreted by The Gap.  

stikpusher

 

 

mississippivol

After watching it last Tuesday, (btw I totally enjoyed it), I realized that I hadn't seen a war movie where Halsey was a major character. Am I missing a movie that featured him prominently, beside Robert Michie scratching himself in the Midway 76 movie?

 

 

 

 

Tora! Tora! Tora!, Halsey is played by James Whitmore (Sr.) in that one and has a rather prominent role in that film. 

 

Thanks, man. I couldn't say how long since I'd seen that movie, but I found a copy at Barnes and Nobles this evening to watch again.

While looking forward to this movie, I had reservations about it that were gone within the first 15 minutes of the movie. I saw it with Modelcrazy and Mopar Madness, and as we were walking past the theater after dinner, I wondered which one of the movies had the volume cranked up as you could hear explosions outside the theater. Steve said that it was Midway and I replied I didn't recall it being that loud and he said that was because you were into it, and he was right. I'm not sure I would have included the homefront footage, but it added to the story and didn't detract from it. I thought the incidents involving Gaido at the Coral Sea and his execution were cinematic additions, but in reading previous posts, I found out that they were actual events. I didn't remember John Ford being at Midway, but a quick use of my Googlefu confirmed that he was and made an award winning documentary about the battle of Midway.While it was fairly easy to keep up with the American personell, some help by the way of subtitles (like they did in the 1976 movie) would have helped with the Japanese.  While shown in the movie, no mention is made of Ens. Gay (lone survivor of Torpedo 8). I thought Woody Harrelson did a good job as Nimitz (plus it made this Texas boy's day to see a Texan playing a Texan hero). After seeing this, I need to add Layton's book to my library along with Shattered Sword (read a borrowed copy).  

mississippivol

After watching it last Tuesday, (btw I totally enjoyed it), I realized that I hadn't seen a war movie where Halsey was a major character. Am I missing a movie that featured him prominently, beside Robert Michie scratching himself in the Midway 76 movie?

 

Tora! Tora! Tora!, Halsey is played by James Whitmore (Sr.) in that one and has a rather prominent role in that film. 

Rotorhead13

The Gallant Hours is the movie with James Cagney playing Halsey. It's about him  reminiscing just before he "retires" from the Navy (5 Stars don't officially retire). It's somewhat interesting, but don't look for any exciting combat. It's more of a behind the scenes accounting. As I recall, he spent most of it talking to his enlisted aide. 

 

I'll look for that. Cagney as Halsey...it fits 

Just saw it with my good friends Modelcrazy & Lewbud and loved it! I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to the history of the Pacific theater so I didnt have any expectations other than it being jam packed with action.  And was it ever! 

The Gallant Hours is the movie with James Cagney playing Halsey. It's about him  reminiscing just before he "retires" from the Navy (5 Stars don't officially retire). It's somewhat interesting, but don't look for any exciting combat. It's more of a behind the scenes accounting. As I recall, he spent most of it talking to his enlisted aide. 

I saw it last Friday. Overall I would say I enjoyed the film and would recommend it. Yes to me there were a lot of CGI issues but certainly better than Pearl Harbor. Kate Beckinscale not withstanding. My main beef was the speed of the planes.  I'm sure the CGI guys can slow things down. Also was disappointed not to see some wildcats. Plus if Japanese AA was like that nothing would get through. It did make me feel young. Not only was the original midway the first war movie that I saw in the theater but at 56 I was by far the youngest at this one. Most I would guess were in their 70's to 80's

I went and saw it last night. To me, it was good but could have been better. Certainly far better than Pearl Harbor. Compared to the 1976 Midway movie each has its’ own plusses and minuses compared to the other. Each included or omitted details that would help the narrative. And each has its own gaffes. But definitely worth seeing on the big screen. If you’re well read on the battle, you’ll most likely enjoy the film. And look for those hidden easter eggs of historical bits such as the above mentioned missing fingers on Yamamoto’s hand. 

But yeah, Hollywood needs some better technical advisors for the CGI folks tighten up their shot grouping. 

Since the critics hated it, and so many here liked it, I am going to see it tonight.  I'm excited, we need a good movie.

I just saw it last night and I really liked it,   I was comparing it to the heston version and I think the earlier film was better in one respect, that they showed alot more detail on where the task forces were in relation to each other, who was doing what.

there was no mention at all the scout palne activity, maybe I'm nit picking but if I didn't know anything about the 3-4 battles that were shown (dolittle, coral sea) I would be confused as too what was going on and how things got to where they are.

Hopefully I'm not to far off the mark.

John

Did anyone else catch the small detail of Yamamoto's fingers?   In the early scenes, the dinner/meeting with Layman and Yamamoto,  it appears that several of Yamamoto's fingers are missing. 
During the Russo-Japanese War, Yamamoto, then a junior officer,  was injured at the Battle of Tushima resulting in the loss of this index and middle fingers on his left hand.  

I enjoyed the film

My friends and I saw it twice. The first time it seemed to suck us into the times and WWII. Movie seemed like it was 20 min long. Great attention to detail. Seemed like you were really there.

Only problem I had ( there were many problems but they didn't detract too much) was that the movie centered on just 2 or 3 pilots and made them the heros.

Those guys of Scouting 6 that I knew personaly would have been very disappointed in this as they all said it was a team effort with no one person standing out, They did it together as a single group---some guys hit their targets others missed but it was no one person that was highlighted! 

According to Dusty they practiced so much that the squadron functioned as one man. "It was the practice that got us through."

Andy

Went to see it with my family and a couple of friends Sunday night and have to say that I was impressed. Lovelife drama was kept out of it and there was no hating. They let us see the war from both sides and took us inside their ships during attacks to show the truest carnage possible that war causes on both sides. There were inaccuracies but that would be nitpicky to point them out I feel. Good history lesson for everybody to watch as we tend to have short memories in regards to that it seems.

We went to see it Sunday with our WWII living history group. These guys (and gals) are knowledgable and usually pretty brutal, but the consensus was that it was a very well done movie. Good attention to detail in uniforms, civilian wear, and vehicles. Minimal Hollywood, and good use of CGI. There are errors (e.g., late model B-25s for the Doolittle raiders, Enterprise crew watching the Hornet launch the raiders), but they didn't detract from the movie at all. The 2.5 hrs passed very quickly indicating content that held the attention. Well worth seeing.

The wife and I saw it tonight and other than a few maneuvers that would not happen, it was very good. It follows the history in Shattered Sword very well. It's a shame the battle of Coral Sea was pretty much passed over. The attack on the carriers was a little confusing and you wouldn't really understand what was going on unless you were familiar with the events. I look at it like your watching it from the Japanese point of view. The movie was in constant motion with no love interest other than Lt Best' s wife and daughter.

Bottom line, I enjoyed it very much and would be happy to go again.

It's a war movie like Hollywood used to make before the 70's, besides the CGI.

A good video series is "Air Operations-Battle of Midway", found on Youtube, an 8 part series.  It is based on "Shattered Sword" in part, mostly.

GMorrison

This bears more discussion, but in Kleiss he suggests that one of his beefs with McClusky (there were many), concerned the attack on Akagi and Kaga.

On pages 198- 200, he descibes his own view of events. Akagi and Kaga sighted along with two other ships, Soryu and Hiryu which were about 10 miles further away.

McClusky"Enemy sighted!"

McClusky "All planes attack".

Here it gets messy because Bombing Six (Best), as the lead squadron and led by the AGC McCluskey, would by doctrine take the further target Akagi off to starboard and Scouting Six (Gallaher) would attack the nearer target to port, Kaga.

But the Air Group Commander, McClusky, banked hard to port ahead of them all and dove on Kaga. His wingmen, who were to remain at altitude and photograph the attack as well as provide cover; went down right behind him and so did  the first section of B-6.

Best then changed plan and took the leading three SBDs of (EDIT) B-6  off towards Akagi without McCluskey. But the rest of  (EDIT)B-6 dove on Kaga.

Best and group scored enough hits on Akagi to cripple her, and then all of B-3 arrived and seventeen SBD's dove in more regular order on her and destroyed her.

So at first there seemd to be divided sections of SBDs from Enterprise going in several different dirrections at once.

Per Japanese records from eye witnesses only three planes attack Akagi.

Indeed, Lt. Best's quick thinking after seeing McClusky's squadron heading in on the Kaga pulled out of his dive but most of his squadron followed McClusky in their dives.  Best and his two wingman who stay with him moved on to the Akagi.  Only these three planes dived on the Akagi. In the book "Shattered Sword" the three dive together in their original V-formation 75 - 100 feet apart. The first missed portside just forward of the island, the second missed just off the portside stern bending up her flight deck and jamming her rudder.  The third hit went through the deck up by the island at the edge of the middle elevator and then exploded in the upper hanger bay.  Lt. Best describes watching CAP fighters taking off during their dive, no one was looking up.  It is believed that Lt. Best bomb was the one that landed in the hanger bay and started the fireworks of exploding bombs, torpedoes and fuel.  All three planes were only carrying 1,000lb general purpose bombs, no armor or semi-armor piercing weapons.  I always wonder if they had armor piercing bombs would they have travel thru both hanger bays and not set off all of those planes in those hangers.

goldhammer

 Final Countdown......carrier is transported bck to Pearl Harbor as the attack is coming in.

 

Oops, I forgot, there was actually a movie along those lines before 

PFJN

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I thought in this version of events the US initially looses the battle but that a group of Super Heroes event a time machine to go back in time to fix things.  Or am I getting my movies mixed up 

 

Final Countdown......carrier is transported bck to Pearl Harbor as the attack is coming in.

Rob Gronovius

I took my 15 year old son with me yesterday and saw it at a matinee. It was a very good movie, enjoyable. I do not know a lot of the actual details of the battle so I don't know what's correct about who did what.

But I do know that the US Navy wins the battle [spoiler alert].

 

I thought in this version of events the US initially looses the battle but that a group of Super Heroes event a time machine to go back in time to fix things.  Or am I getting my movies mixed up 

Rob Gronovius

I took my 15 year old son with me yesterday and saw it at a matinee. It was a very good movie, enjoyable. I do not know a lot of the actual details of the battle so I don't know what's correct about who did what.

But I do know that the US Navy wins the battle [spoiler alert].

 

Lol! 

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?