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Stay at Home,Stay Safe Orders

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  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Stay at Home,Stay Safe Orders
Posted by Tojo72 on Thursday, March 26, 2020 10:56 AM

As you know most of us at this point are under some sort of stay at home restrictions.What is allowed varies,going to to the grocery,pharmacy,helping relatives or friends,walking dog,and exercising.What I don't understand is that the Mayor of Chicago is clamping down on long walks or runs !!! What difference does it make if you walk around the block or run 10 miles if your alone ??? She says you can find or arrested if you don't comply.Seems like an overreach to me.Am I wrong or am I missing something.

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:07 AM

Well, without a declaration of martial law or war, I don't see the basis for such a move. Just some tin-hat dictators showing how they really feel.  What are they going to do?  Arrest you and throw you in a concentration camp?  Take away your toilet paper supply?  Fear makes bureaucrats do some dispicable things, like round up people of Japanese ancestry and place them in camps as an example.

PS> As another example of bureaucratic stupidity, my sister was diagnosed with Burkitt's Lymphoma back in January.  She has been receiving treatment for cancer, which has not been very successful.  The prognosis is not good.  Sunday, she had to go into the hospital for treatment, where she was promptly placed in ICU.  It was determined she had the Corona virus.  She is on dialysis (because her kidneys are shutting down), a ventilator to help her breath and is sedated to keep her calm.  NO ONE is allowed to visit her, and the only news we get is from the doctor calling her daughter to let her know she is still alive.

Only when they think she is near death will they allow her two children in.  The rest of the family just cannot enter.  This is where I have to say that as an adult it is my responsibility to accept the risk.  They did not think about this situation when they ordered a lockdown.

Gary

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, March 26, 2020 12:08 PM

Tojo72

As you know most of us at this point are under some sort of stay at home restrictions.What is allowed varies,going to to the grocery,pharmacy,helping relatives or friends,walking dog,and exercising.What I don't understand is that the Mayor of Chicago is clamping down on long walks or runs !!! What difference does it make if you walk around the block or run 10 miles if your alone ??? She says you can find or arrested if you don't comply.Seems like an overreach to me.Am I wrong or am I missing something.

 

Just an educated guess on my part, but at worst, the offender will likely receive a citation. Show up in court on such and such date to answer the charges. Which likely will be handled like traffic offenses and result in a fine and/or community service if found guilty and convicted. Law Enforcement in locations that have ordered such actions are not taking real criminals (non violent offenses, think shoplifters and vehicle burglars) to jail, and letting out of jail early other select offenders to reduce the impact of the virus on their jail system. You think street cops are going to arrest and bring in for booking somebody who is sweating, huffing & puffing, etc. from their walk or run? 

 

 

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2011
  • From: Armpit of NY
Posted by MJames70 on Thursday, March 26, 2020 12:31 PM

The US Constitutional legality of the 'shelter in place' and other closure orders is questionable at best, and likely to be challenged more the longer they go on. It's not easy to balance health concerns versus the viability of a society as whole, no doubt. But without community, commerce, opportunity, work, entertainment, etc., what do you have left? And whether you give away your freedoms, or have them taken away, they don't come back easily; usually never without great suffering. 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Thursday, March 26, 2020 12:46 PM

stikpusher

 

 
Tojo72

As you know most of us at this point are under some sort of stay at home restrictions.What is allowed varies,going to to the grocery,pharmacy,helping relatives or friends,walking dog,and exercising.What I don't understand is that the Mayor of Chicago is clamping down on long walks or runs !!! What difference does it make if you walk around the block or run 10 miles if your alone ??? She says you can find or arrested if you don't comply.Seems like an overreach to me.Am I wrong or am I missing something.

 

 

 

Just an educated guess on my part, but at worst, the offender will likely receive a citation. Show up in court on such and such date to answer the charges. Which likely will be handled like traffic offenses and result in a fine and/or community service if found guilty and convicted. Law Enforcement in locations that have ordered such actions are not taking real criminals (non violent offenses, think shoplifters and vehicle burglars) to jail, and letting out of jail early other select offenders to reduce the impact of the virus on their jail system. You think street cops are going to arrest and bring in for booking somebody who is sweating, huffing & puffing, etc. from their walk or run? 

 

 

 

 

Yes,the article said citations would be if you were defiant,and arrest if it got confrontational,but again,how is a long walks or run unsafe as opposed to a dog walk around the block.Dont know why they are making this distinction.Same thing in NJ.com

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, March 26, 2020 12:47 PM

Maybe the guardhouse lawyers here (Stik you get guard duty) might weigh your concerns against the scientific fact that not engaging in social distancing will cause a lot moreAmericans to die, and a lot of sick people out on the street do not a strong economy make. The President told me so. He sees a limit on the duration and while he may be a little overly optomistic, I think we all pretty much agree that the time will come.

Hang in there and model, guys.

A section of the Executive Order from the IL Gov."

"c. For outdoor activity. To engage in outdoor activity, provided the individuals comply with Social Distancing Requirements, as defined below, such as, by way of example and without limitation, walking, hiking, running, or biking. Individuals may go to public parks and open outdoor recreation areas. However, playgrounds may increase spread of COVID-19, and therefore shall be closed"

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, March 26, 2020 1:02 PM

I’ll chime in more on this when I get back from my socially distant outdoor walk in a land of freedom Wink

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, March 26, 2020 1:27 PM

If you see a Javelina, stay 6 ft away...

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Thursday, March 26, 2020 1:36 PM

GMorrison

Maybe the guardhouse lawyers here (Stik you get guard duty) might weigh your concerns against the scientific fact that not engaging in social distancing will cause a lot moreAmericans to die, and a lot of sick people out on the street do not a strong economy make. The President told me so. He sees a limit on the duration and while he may be a little overly optomistic, I think we all pretty much agree that the time will come.

Hang in there and model, guys.

A section of the Executive Order from the IL Gov."

"c. For outdoor activity. To engage in outdoor activity, provided the individuals comply with Social Distancing Requirements, as defined below, such as, by way of example and without limitation, walking, hiking, running, or biking. Individuals may go to public parks and open outdoor recreation areas. However, playgrounds may increase spread of COVID-19, and therefore shall be closed"

 

Yea,but the mayor doubled down 

Chicago cracks down over coronavirus, tells residents donhttps://www.foxnews.com/politics/chicago-cracks-down-over-coronavirus-tells-residents-dont-go-on-long-runs-or-bike-rides

 

  • Member since
    May 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Thursday, March 26, 2020 2:34 PM

GMorrison

If you see a Javelina, stay 6 ft away...

 

Smile

-Greg

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, March 26, 2020 2:56 PM

Tony, the mayor can say whatever, but it’s the street cops who decide how they will do their job. Until this virus situation kicked in, Chicago was on the way to having another year of high numbers of gun shot victims. I’m curious how this has affected that situation. And perhaps they are using this excuse to tamp down on that. But that aside, each state has different laws for crimes, and levels of severity for them as well.

In CA, were someone being contacted regarding their outdoor activities to become confrontational, it would fall under Obstruct, Resist, or Delay a Peace Officer in the course of duties, a violation of 148(a) P.C., a misdemeanor. Basicly somebody with a mouth can talk their way into jail if the officer is good with articulating their facts in the report. If numnuts goes hands on in the confrontation, well that is a whole different set of charges, and usually a trip to the E.R. as well. I’m sure all the other states have their own versions of these laws. In almost every case, it is the citizen‘s attitude and demeanor that sets and raises the tone of the encounter.

 

 

I can only speak from California experience, and the closest thing I can compare this situation to is the 1992 Rodney King riots where emergency powers were invoked and curfew declared for a short time during the event, and only for specific areas, not statewide. The national guard and active military were called in and deployed to assist in restoring and maintaining order. And the affected area was only a portion of Los Angeles county, not the whole county, let alone the state.

Just like medical personnel, law enforcement had to triage and prioritize their responses to incidents. Especially in the first 36-48 hours before the military actually deployed to the streets in strength. Curfew violators were warned and advised because there were many more bigger fish to catch. In the legal system afterwards, a lot of cases were dismissed “in the interest of justice” due to the courts being swamped. Of course part of this also depended upon the courthouse and courtroom- some believe in catch and release, others are “hanging courts” consistently handing  stiff sentencing. Only time will tell how this all plays out. 

Bill, no Javelinas out there today, just lots of Dove and Quail. At least if things go truly apocalyptic, I know that there is that local food source.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Thursday, March 26, 2020 3:54 PM

Oh My!

   I guess it's no worse than L.A's mayor using the utilities as a bludgeon . We here in TEXAS are behaving ourselves. New Braunfels has a Stay in Place, REQUEST in place. Grocery runs, Doctors Visits and Social Distancing are working here. I have heard only a few older than me, Curmudgeons, Complain. I am cleaning my shop and work area and trying to think how to pack big ship model parts and pieces to Alabama.

       I've got that underway so I believe tonight, I will start the C-123 provider! I do really love he big planes in 1/144! Got more room for them. 

  • Member since
    August 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Thursday, March 26, 2020 3:58 PM

I've never had a bad encounter with any LEO.  If you treat them with respect and keep cool, they will respond the same way, after all they are professionals and try to keep confrontations down. Things have a way of ending on a way better note than otherwise.  It's where the old "reap and sow" adage comes home to roost.

If you go all "street punk" on them, well, all I can say is I hope you have numbers they can call to notify someone where they can visit at.

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: State of Mississippi. State motto: Virtute et armis (By valor and arms)
Posted by mississippivol on Thursday, March 26, 2020 4:38 PM

Wait til the end of the song...Wink

  • Member since
    October 2018
Posted by familyman on Thursday, March 26, 2020 5:10 PM

It just seems prudent and safe NOT to be by yourself in Chicago. 

Mike

"An honest man's pillow is his peace of mind"

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, March 26, 2020 7:35 PM

So I just got home and have had a chance to catch up.

I only advance this to try to calm this down, not start a fight.

I went and read the Fox article cited and the connected CBS story. If you've ever worked with a major news organization or know folks who do, they operate on several levels. There are reporters who write the story, and a whole separate effort that writes the headlines. Writers often say what the heck when they see what the headline of their story is. Fox, CNN, all the same. They have readers who scan headlines and readers who read the whole story. I'm sure we all read the whole story.

The Mayor expressed her opinion about long runs/ rides. It's her opinion, in the larger context of all mayors dealing with the problem that people continue to congregate in public. Further down the page, she restated that people will be cited/ fined/ arrested if they continue to congregate in public. So the two get conflated.

But the City simultaneously issued a policy ctatement that matched that of the Governor. No mention of citation for length of run/ bike. You'll get cited for congregating in public, whether you've run 100 yards or 100 miles.

People stick their foot in their mouth in front of the mike on a regular basis; politicians are no exception.

Stik, I'm going to fire up the smoker on Saturday and cook up some BBQ, Arizona style. Pork ribs. I'll send you a pic. Pico de Gallo will be involved.

  • Member since
    July 2013
  • From: Chicago area
Posted by modelmaker66 on Thursday, March 26, 2020 10:23 PM

[quote user="stikpusher"]

Tony, the mayor can say whatever, but it’s the street cops who decide how they will do their job. Until this virus situation kicked in, Chicago was on the way to having another year of high numbers of gun shot victims. I’m curious how this has affected that situation. 

I live in the Chicago area. The virus has caused shootings to dorp dramatically. Go figure!Stick out tongue

  • Member since
    April 2019
  • From: Earth, Milky Way Galaxy
Posted by John 3:16 KJV on Thursday, March 26, 2020 11:30 PM

GAF

PS> As another example of bureaucratic stupidity, my sister was diagnosed with Burkitt's Lymphoma back in January.  She has been receiving treatment for cancer, which has not been very successful.  The prognosis is not good.  Sunday, she had to go into the hospital for treatment, where she was promptly placed in ICU.  It was determined she had the Corona virus.  She is on dialysis (because her kidneys are shutting down), a ventilator to help her breath and is sedated to keep her calm.  NO ONE is allowed to visit her, and the only news we get is from the doctor calling her daughter to let her know she is still alive.

Only when they think she is near death will they allow her two children in.  The rest of the family just cannot enter.  This is where I have to say that as an adult it is my responsibility to accept the risk.  They did not think about this situation when they ordered a lockdown.

Gary

 

Gary, wow! That is an awful situation! May the Lord Jesus heal your sister, and may you be reunited soon! 

     “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

     For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”  - John 3:16-17

 

 

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Friday, March 27, 2020 7:59 AM

John 3:16 KJV

Gary, wow! That is an awful situation! May the Lord Jesus heal your sister, and may you be reunited soon! 

Thank you.  All prayers are appreciated as that's all we have right now.

Gary

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, March 27, 2020 8:04 AM

Gary;

 From another Gary. Hey ,You and the family stay safe. All the folks on here are always on my prayer lists for everyday. Don't go to church, but My belief is unshakeable!!

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Friday, March 27, 2020 12:28 PM

Tanker-Builder

Gary;

 From another Gary. Hey ,You and the family stay safe. All the folks on here are always on my prayer lists for everyday. Don't go to church, but My belief is unshakeable!!

TB,

Thank you.  Take care of yourself also.  These are trying times for everyone.

Gary

PS> Someday we'll have to do a "Gary Group Build" where we build anything that has a "Gary" in it, such as a U2 flown by Francis Gary Powers.  Big Smile

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • From: Close to Chicago
Posted by JohnnyK on Friday, March 27, 2020 12:55 PM

Tojo72

As you know most of us at this point are under some sort of stay at home restrictions.What is allowed varies,going to to the grocery,pharmacy,helping relatives or friends,walking dog,and exercising.What I don't understand is that the Mayor of Chicago is clamping down on long walks or runs !!! What difference does it make if you walk around the block or run 10 miles if your alone ??? She says you can find or arrested if you don't comply.Seems like an overreach to me.Am I wrong or am I missing something.

 

Yeah, you are missing something!!! I was born in Chicago 70 years ago. I currently live in a suburb of Chicago and I greatly admire Lori Lighfoot. Let me also get something else staight, she is not a tin can dictator. She is not clamping down on individuals exercising outdoors. Chicago has some of the most beautiful beach paths in the world and she was forced to close  them  and the 606 trail because early this week large groups of Chicago residents were congregating together outside. She told people to not do that last week, but people ignored her. She had no choice. She did the right thing and she will continue to do the things that are necessary to keep the people of Chicago safe.

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Friday, March 27, 2020 1:02 PM

JohnnyK

 

 
Tojo72

As you know most of us at this point are under some sort of stay at home restrictions.What is allowed varies,going to to the grocery,pharmacy,helping relatives or friends,walking dog,and exercising.What I don't understand is that the Mayor of Chicago is clamping down on long walks or runs !!! What difference does it make if you walk around the block or run 10 miles if your alone ??? She says you can find or arrested if you don't comply.Seems like an overreach to me.Am I wrong or am I missing something.

 

 

 

Yeah, you are missing something!!! I was born in Chicago 70 years ago. I currently live in a suburb of Chicago and I greatly admire Lori Lighfoot. Let me also get something else staight, she is not a tin can dictator. She is not clamping down on individuals exercising outdoors. Chicago has some of the most beautiful beach paths in the world and she was forced to close  them  and the 606 trail because early this week large groups of Chicago residents were congregating together outside. She told people to not do that last week, but people ignored her. She had no choice. She did the right thing and she will continue to do the things that are necessary to keep the people of Chicago safe.

 

 

No need to get snippy with me,was asking a question.

Break up and police the large groups and leave individuals alone

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sonora Desert
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, March 27, 2020 2:05 PM

It is a legit question. Because of the stupidity of a few, the responsable people who do go outside and stay socially distant lose their ability to do so in those locales now. 
I say this as a former cop and strong constitutionalist. There has to be a balance between safety and constitutional rights. Just like my former boss was trying to have gun stores closed as non essential businesses. United States Supreme Court case law is that firearms are allowed for home defense as a right. Period. That is the law of the land, not outweighed by any lesser jurisdiction. Now to shut down a citizens ability to exercise that right is certainly an infringement of that, and legally quite questionable on so many levels. Fortunately that order was rescinded quickly. 
Without trying to get political, it does appear that there are more than a few elected officials looking to take advantage of the current situation.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • From: Close to Chicago
Posted by JohnnyK on Friday, March 27, 2020 2:29 PM

Tojo72
 

 

No need to get snippy with me,was asking a question.

Break up and police the large groups and leave individuals alone

 

I have every right to get "snippy". Chicago has a population of 2.7 million people. It needs to deal with the virus in a much different manner than a small town. Everyone needs to understand that. I don't know where you got that informatioin regarding Chicago. But it is just wrong. 

Large groups are made up of individuals. One individual that does not follow the rules spoils it for the large group. 

  • Member since
    June 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Friday, March 27, 2020 2:44 PM

It is unfortunate that the stupidity of the few impact the many. This is especially true in larger areas as the more people, the more villiage idiots. The vast majority who are adhearing with city, State, and Federal recommendations have to become more restricted because of the few who tend to want to buck the system. 

I am in a smaller town but we still end up with similar issues. IMHO all we "normal" people need to do is try and exercise a larger dose of understanding for those fellow "normal" people who have to enforce State, Federal, CDC restrictions. 

Those who choose to ignore thier social and moral responsibilities will most likely have thier day. I just aviod them and exercise my coping abilities. 

As for all of us, stay strong, responsible, healthy. Watch over your families and take the necessary precautions. We will make it though this......

Ben

I am a Veteran; to all other Veterans thank you for your service. Retired now and living well

PROJECTS:

- 1/350 USS Alabama (GB) - WIP

- 1/24 Lola T89 - DONE

- 90mm Greek Hoplite Resin Figure - Done

 

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Friday, March 27, 2020 2:45 PM

JohnnyK

 

 
Tojo72
 

 

No need to get snippy with me,was asking a question.

Break up and police the large groups and leave individuals alone

 

 

 

I have every right to get "snippy". Chicago has a population of 2.7 million people. It needs to deal with the virus in a much different manner than a small town. Everyone needs to understand that. I don't know where you got that informatioin regarding Chicago. But it is just wrong. 

 

Large groups are made up of individuals. One individual that does not follow the rules spoils it for the large group. 

 

Whatever,enjoy yourself and have a great day and stay safe Big Smile

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • From: Close to Chicago
Posted by JohnnyK on Friday, March 27, 2020 2:48 PM

I still think that there are people in this country that do not understand the severity of the Coronavirus. I am not making refernece to anyone on this forum. 80,000 Americans are sick from this virus and 1,000 have died. The numbers keep rising with no end in sight, and  people continue to not practice social distancing. Because of that, the government is required to temporarly limit our social freedoms in order to keep the majority safe. This is not a constitutional issue. It is an American issue.

  • Member since
    March 2015
  • From: Close to Chicago
Posted by JohnnyK on Friday, March 27, 2020 2:49 PM

Tojo72

 

 
JohnnyK

 

 
Tojo72
 

 

No need to get snippy with me,was asking a question.

Break up and police the large groups and leave individuals alone

 

 

 

I have every right to get "snippy". Chicago has a population of 2.7 million people. It needs to deal with the virus in a much different manner than a small town. Everyone needs to understand that. I don't know where you got that informatioin regarding Chicago. But it is just wrong. 

 

Large groups are made up of individuals. One individual that does not follow the rules spoils it for the large group. 

 

 

 

Whatever,enjoy yourself and have a great day and stay safe Big Smile

 

I agree, please stay safe yourself Big Smile

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, March 27, 2020 2:50 PM

Does Don Jr. have to self quarantine if he flies down to Florida for the weekend?

Seriously.

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