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Aircraft Trivia Quiz

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  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Monday, January 2, 2006 4:20 PM
The difficulty of trivia quizzes like this is there is no "expert" moderator who holds the answers. Tom even started this quiz stating the difficulties of such endeavours.

Note that I AM NOT saying that Matt90 and RemcoGrob are colluding! Only that Matt90's question was ambiguous.

The Wikipedia link on the He 280 RemcoGrob provided conflicts with another Wikipedia link I found on the Me 262 (which I found BTW in the He 280 link), both of which state they were the first jet fighter. The He 280 clearly shows that only two airframes actually flew, and only one under it's own power, and that the RLM had only ordered 20 pre-production aircraft with a promise of 300 more if the aircraft proved worthy. It did not, and the contract was cancelled for technical and political reasons. My argument is if the contract was cancelled before the pre-production airframes were built then that must mean the 9 airframes in existence (one of which crashed after be towed off the ground!) were pre-pre-production. Clearly making them research or experimental. At least in my mind!!

Whatever. Matt90 got the answer he was looking for, and we should move on. While I clearly like to argue, I am not interested in fighting about this! Tongue [:P]


So long folks!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by wdolson2 on Monday, January 2, 2006 4:23 PM
 RemcoGrob wrote:

So then I can ask a question:

Name two types fighter planes that where used by the french airforce in 1940 and where made by a foreign (a non-french) manufacturer? 

Please note the the types, at least, must have been delivered before the fall of France, so no p-38's or p-39's etc. (which where on order but never deliverd)



The only fighter that comes to mind is the Curtiss Hawk (H-75).  The French did have Douglas Marylands (Model 167) and DB-7s (the ancestor of the A-20), but those are bombers.

Bill
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Edgware, London
Posted by osher on Monday, January 2, 2006 4:36 PM
 Bgrigg wrote:
The difficulty of trivia quizzes like this is there is no "expert" moderator who holds the answers. Tom even started this quiz stating the difficulties of such endeavours.

Note that I AM NOT saying that Matt90 and RemcoGrob are colluding! Only that Matt90's question was ambiguous.

The Wikipedia link on the He 280 RemcoGrob provided conflicts with another Wikipedia link I found on the Me 262 (which I found BTW in the He 280 link), both of which state they were the first jet fighter. The He 280 clearly shows that only two airframes actually flew, and only one under it's own power, and that the RLM had only ordered 20 pre-production aircraft with a promise of 300 more if the aircraft proved worthy. It did not, and the contract was cancelled for technical and political reasons. My argument is if the contract was cancelled before the pre-production airframes were built then that must mean the 9 airframes in existence (one of which crashed after be towed off the ground!) were pre-pre-production. Clearly making them research or experimental. At least in my mind!!

Whatever. Matt90 got the answer he was looking for, and we should move on. While I clearly like to argue, I am not interested in fighting about this! Tongue [:P]


I think the difference here is terminology.  The 'pre-pre-production' aircraft were called prototypes, so it could be accurately said that the He-280 never went beyond prototype stage.  However, it was aimed for production, and was not designed for research.  A research aircraft would be the Gloster Whittle, or the He-178 which were never designed with production in mind, but purely to find research the field, for later aircraft.

Actually, thanks for the links.  I thought the He-280 had entered limited production, but stand corrected!
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Monday, January 2, 2006 4:44 PM
He wasn't just considered one, he WAS an admirer of Hitler and the Nazi Regime. From Wikipedia: Lindbergh's Nazi sympathies. He never did admit he was wrong about the Nazis, even after witnessing the death camps first hand. He was also a vocal white supremist.

He resigned his Army Air Force commission before Pearl Harbour, but tried to get it back and was blocked. Whether by Roosevelt directly or indirectly is lost to history (though I suspect it, Roosevelt was in fact a dirty political fighter). I personally believe Lindbergh would have been one of the best aces (he actually shot down an enemy plane while flying as a "civilian" observor) but I don't think he would have willingly fought in the European theatre. Shame, really, his accomplishments were almost eclipsed by his personal short-comings.

So long folks!

  • Member since
    March 2003
Posted by rangerj on Monday, January 2, 2006 6:21 PM

Added thoughts;

The A-6 flew in Nam and they are still flying today. So did the A-4, and it is still in service in Brazill. The A-4 began flying in 53 or 54 (production) so it qualifies for the 50 years of service. The C-135 (Boing 707) varients are still flying so they should qualify for the 50 years of service depending on when they were picked up for military use. The U-2 has to be real close to 50 years. I think it started its service career in 1956, but this is a guess. Ike was president when the Gary Powers U-2 was shot down, right.  This is great stuff guys, keep it going.

The Secretary of Defense, Robert MacNanera, wanted aircraft to be usable by both the USAF and the Navy. The F-4 Phantom was a success of this program. An aircraft referred to as the TFX at that time was found to be too heavy for aircraft carier landings. However, the USAF bought it and it turned out to be a phanominal success, after a number of problems were worked out. What was it?

Hint: it was the first to have ground following radar, the first successful variable geometry (swing) wings aircraft, and the first to have an ejection capsule. There are a few other production "firsts" I cannot remember at the moment.

  • Member since
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  • From: New Jersey
Posted by Matt90 on Monday, January 2, 2006 6:53 PM
Jeez....do you really have to give so much about the F-111 away? OK, and I am not colluding with whatshisface. I wanted the He-280 because it was the first GERMAN JET FIGHTER, and I consider the first aircraft prototypes to a full service fighter. We consider the prototype F-107 a jet fighter, even though it never entered service, and only one was built.
''Do your damndest in an ostentatious manner all the time.'' -General George S. Patton
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by wdolson2 on Monday, January 2, 2006 7:28 PM
 Bgrigg wrote:
He wasn't just considered one, he WAS an admirer of Hitler and the Nazi Regime. From Wikipedia: Lindbergh's Nazi sympathies. He never did admit he was wrong about the Nazis, even after witnessing the death camps first hand. He was also a vocal white supremist.

He resigned his Army Air Force commission before Pearl Harbour, but tried to get it back and was blocked. Whether by Roosevelt directly or indirectly is lost to history (though I suspect it, Roosevelt was in fact a dirty political fighter). I personally believe Lindbergh would have been one of the best aces (he actually shot down an enemy plane while flying as a "civilian" observor) but I don't think he would have willingly fought in the European theatre. Shame, really, his accomplishments were almost eclipsed by his personal short-comings.


I wasn't aware of Lindbergh's white supremacy and Nazi leanings.  Everybody has flaws.  Churchill was an alcoholic and he was probably the best world leader of the war.  Lindbergh's flaws were serious (and potentially a serious problem), but he would have made a top fighter pilot.

Bill
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Monday, January 2, 2006 9:00 PM
 Matt90 wrote:
Jeez....do you really have to give so much about the F-111 away? OK, and I am not colluding with whatshisface. I wanted the He-280 because it was the first GERMAN JET FIGHTER, and I consider the first aircraft prototypes to a full service fighter. We consider the prototype F-107 a jet fighter, even though it never entered service, and only one was built.


Sigh. I deliberately said you weren't colluding, and his name is RemcoGrob, not whatshisface. I've already conceded the point that the answer you were looking for was the one RemcoGrob provided. I just don't think Jeebus got "pwned", which is a pretty insulting way to phrase things. As I said, that's the problem with quizzes like this, no unbiased moderators.

However, since you've brought up the F-107, there were actually three built: 55-5118, 55-5119 & 55-5120. 55-5120 experienced an aborted take-off and caught fire and was destroyed, the fuselage used for fire control practice at Shepard AFB. 55-5118 is on display at Pima Air Museum at Tucson and 55-5119 is at the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson in Ohio, as found here and here.

Enjoy your day.


So long folks!

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by hudskit on Monday, January 2, 2006 9:15 PM

Wow- where did all the aircraft go?

On another point- Churchill has been heavily criticized for the complete depletion of england's gold reserves (to pay for the intial part of "lend lease") -when the war had ended England's status as a world power had ended as well.. Please don't forget he was voted out of office in '44- and for at least a decade after the war England lived in a virtual state of economic depression- comparable to the economies of the "defeated" powers of germany and france.

Nothing's really ever simple, Keith

This whole workin' for a living thing does get in the way of so many things....
  • Member since
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Posted by hudskit on Monday, January 2, 2006 9:19 PM

And to get back to the aircraft-since there seem to be a few Luftwaffe fans out there- what was the only japanese aircraft design that the Nazi's purchased the manufacturing rights to?

(but they never made any)

This whole workin' for a living thing does get in the way of so many things....
  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: Left forever
Posted by Bgrigg on Monday, January 2, 2006 10:32 PM
I know dreck about Japanese aircraft, a flaw I will attempt to correct!

Was it the Nakajima E4N2 seaplane?

So long folks!

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by wdolson2 on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 1:45 AM
 hudskit wrote:

Wow- where did all the aircraft go?

On another point- Churchill has been heavily criticized for the complete depletion of england's gold reserves (to pay for the intial part of "lend lease") -when the war had ended England's status as a world power had ended as well.. Please don't forget he was voted out of office in '44- and for at least a decade after the war England lived in a virtual state of economic depression- comparable to the economies of the "defeated" powers of germany and france.

Nothing's really ever simple, Keith



I thought there was a vote of no confidence right after VE Day in Europe?

England's status as a world power was really spent by the end of WW I.  They were able to keep up appearances because the US didn't step into the vacuum after the war and they were able to put down unrest in the colonies as well as tacking on a few new territories from the Ottoman Empire.  After WW II the end f the British Empire was too obvious to ignore.

No matter who was PM, the UK would have exhausted their treasury fighting the war. 

After WW II every country who was involved, winner or loser had a decade or more of hard times, except the US.  The US was the only major combattant that came out of the war with a stronger economy than when the war started.

Bill
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Utereg
Posted by Borg R3-MC0 on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 2:51 AM
 wdolson2 wrote:
 RemcoGrob wrote:

So then I can ask a question:

Name two types fighter planes that where used by the french airforce in 1940 and where made by a foreign (a non-french) manufacturer? 

Please note the the types, at least, must have been delivered before the fall of France, so no p-38's or p-39's etc. (which where on order but never deliverd)



The only fighter that comes to mind is the Curtiss Hawk (H-75).  The French did have Douglas Marylands (Model 167) and DB-7s (the ancestor of the A-20), but those are bombers.

Bill

The H-75 is half of the correct anwser, but there was another foreign fighter.....

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Utereg
Posted by Borg R3-MC0 on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 2:57 AM
 hudskit wrote:

And to get back to the aircraft-since there seem to be a few Luftwaffe fans out there- what was the only japanese aircraft design that the Nazi's purchased the manufacturing rights to?

(but they never made any)

I think it's the mitsubishi Ki-46 Dinah.

  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by Matt90 on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 6:00 AM
Oh, I just read this last night: the H81A export P-40.
''Do your damndest in an ostentatious manner all the time.'' -General George S. Patton
  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Utereg
Posted by Borg R3-MC0 on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 7:34 AM

 Matt90 wrote:
Oh, I just read this last night: the H81A export P-40.

mmmmhh, that wasn't the one that I meant. Are you sure that it was delivered?

I think we should have to look this anwser up....

  • Member since
    September 2004
  • From: Utereg
Posted by Borg R3-MC0 on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 8:34 AM

Sorry Matt90, but as far as I can tell, the french P-40's weren't deliverd.

So you must continue your search.....

 

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/AC/aircraft/Curtiss-P40/p40_info/p-40_info.htm

  • Member since
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  • From: Edgware, London
Posted by osher on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 12:46 PM
Wasn't the French Air Force given some Hurricane's?
  • Member since
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  • From: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted by T_Terrific on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 1:01 PM

 Bgrigg wrote:
He wasn't just considered one, he WAS an admirer of Hitler and the Nazi Regime. From Wikipedia: Lindbergh's Nazi sympathies. He never did admit he was wrong about the Nazis, even after witnessing the death camps first hand. He was also a vocal white supremist.

He resigned his Army Air Force commission before Pearl Harbour, but tried to get it back and was blocked. Whether by Roosevelt directly or indirectly is lost to history (though I suspect it, Roosevelt was in fact a dirty political fighter). I personally believe Lindbergh would have been one of the best aces (he actually shot down an enemy plane while flying as a "civilian" observor) but I don't think he would have willingly fought in the European theatre. Shame, really, his accomplishments were almost eclipsed by his personal short-comings.

Sign - Off Topic!! [#offtopic]

Actually Lindbergh's politics were a subject of controversy, but at that time, the politics were not as clearly "black-and-white" as they became after we got into the war.

The Wikipedia article "Lindbergh's Nazi sympathies" is merely that author's opinions.

Actually I believe that Lindbergh was fortunate to not be able to re-enter the USAAF since later on Joe Kennedy, John's brother in the USAAF, and a potential political threat to the Roosevelt dynasty, was "accidentally killed" when he was sent on an unusual and dangerous mission, where the B-24 he was flying was fully loaded with explosives as a "one-way mission", similar to the Luftwaffe's Mistel's, only he was to bale out before the giant flying bomb hit its' target. You see, the plane he was flying "mysteriously blew up", killing all aboard.

Lindberg was mainly criticized for his pre-war assessment of the Luftwaffe (as a formidable force to deal with), where he was personally allowed to inspect the German air force before the war in great detail since he led them to believe he "was on their side". You see, had he declared himself a foe or leveled criticism in any sense, they would not have allowed it.

On the other hand, in Roosevelt's cabinet were card-carrying Communists, and at that time the two party's were at each other's throats, no more so then in Europe, so that alone could get him "black-balled" by his administration. Maybe they were also sore since Communists were candidates for the camps along with Jews and people with disabilities.Wink [;)]

Don't forget that before war broke out, Roosevelt himself hailed Hitler as a great leader and a political and economic genius. Confused [%-)]

Do not forget that the JU-88 was in fact designed by some Amerrican engineers on "loan "in Germany before the war broke out.

When the Hindenberg burned down in Lakehurst, New Jesey, the U.S. agents investigating the scene were literally ordered to "find no one at fault", so evidently the pieces of a time bomb discovered in the wreakage were "ignored". This was later revealed under the "Freedom of Information Act" in the '60s.

Since such were the politics of the time, and since Roosevelt was as guilty of "ignoring" the death camps as anyone else (they referred to them as "the Jewish problem" during the Malta conference), I wouldn't go too hard on either Lindbergh or Patton for seeing the Nazi party as a legitimate political party at the time. They were in fact going along with former political statements of the President. You see, had he publicly acknowledged them, he would have to had to admit responsibility for doing nothing about them. You see, that was eventually left to Truman and Eisenhour to deal with. Wink [;)]

Tom TCowboy [C):-)]

 

Tom TCowboy

“Failure is the opportunity to begin again more intelligently.”-Henry Ford

"Except in the fundamentals, think and let think"- J. Wesley

"I am impatient with stupidity, my people have learned to live without it"-Klaatu: "The Day the Earth Stood Still"

"All my men believe in God, they are ordered to"-Adolph Hitler

  • Member since
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  • From: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted by T_Terrific on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 1:10 PM
 hudskit wrote:

Wow- where did all the aircraft go?

As I understand from some friends of mine in the UK, England literally dumped them into the ocean to avoid paying for them

Tom TCowboy

“Failure is the opportunity to begin again more intelligently.”-Henry Ford

"Except in the fundamentals, think and let think"- J. Wesley

"I am impatient with stupidity, my people have learned to live without it"-Klaatu: "The Day the Earth Stood Still"

"All my men believe in God, they are ordered to"-Adolph Hitler

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by rudy_102 on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 1:20 PM

 Bgrigg wrote:
I personally believe Lindbergh would have been one of the best aces (he actually shot down an enemy plane while flying as a "civilian" observor) but I don't think he would have willingly fought in the European theatre. Shame, really, his accomplishments were almost eclipsed by his personal short-comings.

 

Actually, Lindbergh flew Corsairs on bombing missions in the Pacific, according to the December 2005 issue of Flight Journal, flying with VMF 331, Group 31, off Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands.

  • Member since
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  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by rudy_102 on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 1:27 PM
 wdolson2 wrote:

After WW II every country who was involved, winner or loser had a decade or more of hard times, except the US.  The US was the only major combattant that came out of the war with a stronger economy than when the war started.

Bill

wdolson, sweden provided bofors guns to germany and the allies, so they also gained from the war because their netrality allowed them to buy and sell from both sides

  • Member since
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  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by rudy_102 on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 1:35 PM

 osher wrote:
Wasn't the French Air Force given some Hurricane's?

we havent gotten to oshers answer yet

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted by T_Terrific on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 1:36 PM

Well, RemcoGrob, you going to give us a hint at this "mysterious plane" you seem to be referring to, or do we just figure you are "making things up as you go along" as it appears you are doing, and let someone with a question the average scale modeler can answer go ahead now?

If you can't ask a question we can reasonably answer, I vote we go ahead with someone else's question.

 

 

Tom TCowboy

“Failure is the opportunity to begin again more intelligently.”-Henry Ford

"Except in the fundamentals, think and let think"- J. Wesley

"I am impatient with stupidity, my people have learned to live without it"-Klaatu: "The Day the Earth Stood Still"

"All my men believe in God, they are ordered to"-Adolph Hitler

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted by T_Terrific on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 1:38 PM
 rudy_102 wrote:

we havent gotten to this guys answer yet

Is "this guy" on the level?Confused [%-)]

Tom TCowboy

“Failure is the opportunity to begin again more intelligently.”-Henry Ford

"Except in the fundamentals, think and let think"- J. Wesley

"I am impatient with stupidity, my people have learned to live without it"-Klaatu: "The Day the Earth Stood Still"

"All my men believe in God, they are ordered to"-Adolph Hitler

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by rudy_102 on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 1:42 PM
 T_Terrific wrote:
 rudy_102 wrote:

we havent gotten to this guys answer yet

Is "this guy" on the level?Confused [%-)]

ya, he was answering to the question someone asked about the 2 foreign fighters france used during ww2.

 

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted by T_Terrific on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 1:45 PM
 rudy_102 wrote:

Actually, Lindbergh flew Corsair on bombing missions in the Pacific, according to the December 2005 issue of Flight Journal, flying with VMF 331, Group 31, off Kwajalein Atoll in the Marshall Islands.

I read he participated in that also, but wasn't that where they "unoficially" "patched him in" as a "civilian advisor"and he could not technically take credit for them? Confused [%-)]

Tom TCowboy

“Failure is the opportunity to begin again more intelligently.”-Henry Ford

"Except in the fundamentals, think and let think"- J. Wesley

"I am impatient with stupidity, my people have learned to live without it"-Klaatu: "The Day the Earth Stood Still"

"All my men believe in God, they are ordered to"-Adolph Hitler

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: Ontario, Canada
Posted by rudy_102 on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 1:50 PM
o, 1 thing guys. i have 2 flight sims, IL-2 Sturmovik: Forgotten Battles and Pacific Fighters (both published by Ubisoft; http://www.pacificfighters.com/en/) that are great resources for models, cover vast amounts of ww2 aircraft in tamiya-like detail. just felt like bringing it up. each is $20. i got FB at future shop and PF at zellers
  • Member since
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  • From: 40 klicks east of the Gateway
Posted by yardbird78 on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 6:33 PM
 RemcoGrob wrote:

So then I can ask a question: Name two types fighter planes that where used by the french airforce in 1940 and where made by a foreign (a non-french) manufacturer?  Please note the the types, at least, must have been delivered before the fall of France, so no p-38's or p-39's etc. (which where on order but never deliverd)

Gentlemen, please, let's leave out the discussions of politics about Lindbergh, Hitler, Roosevelt, Churchill, etc and concentrate on the original theme of this thread, ie, aircraft trivia questions.

In reference to the above question by RemcoGrob,

France operated 98 of the US made Curtis 75 Hawk and 50 of the Dutch made Koolhaven FK.58.

Darwin, O.F. Alien [alien]

Koolhaven FK-58                                                                                                                           

Curtis Hawk 75

 ,,

The B-52 and me, we have grown old, gray and overweight together.

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, January 3, 2006 6:56 PM
 Political discussion over??? Hope so.


 Whos turn to ask a question or should we just jump in now that this thread was blown to hell. I gotta good one but will wait for my turn when I can answer one.


 And yes the French got some Hurricanes that the brits prompty took away when germany took over.
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