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My first model and I need help with painting!

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  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Arlington, TX
My first model and I need help with painting!
Posted by Wally75 on Monday, August 07, 2017 2:21 PM

Hi, 

So I recently decided to start model building as a new hobby. I've never done it before and decided to start with an easy one, the 1:48 Spitfire by Revell (like many in the community I want to work on WW2 plane models). I'm painting (hand brush) with Testors enamels and thinner and I have encountered a problem although a few solutions have been suggested on youtube. I'm painting a camo pattern of brown and dark green on it with the brown as the ground color. I let the brown dry for about 48 hours but when I started with green it messed up (removed) the brown undercoat. I guess the thinner in the dark green (thinned to the consistency of milk) is removing the brown undercoat. I actually did it on a piece of plastic for testing purposes so I haven't ruined the paint job on the model yet---I had read comments from people having the same problem. Someone suggested it probably needed longer curing time but I'm not sure that will solve the problem completely. I'm considering trying another thinner (mineral spirits?) as Testors seems fairly strong. Also, I'm assuming that if I paint the green with acrylics it shouldn't be a problem (???). Anyways, I have more questions but this is the main concern right now. 

Thanks for helping!

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, August 07, 2017 2:42 PM

My first thought is that you are over thinning the paint. Its been years since i brush painted a complete model, but even then i never had that issue. I am not familiar with Testors, but most paints can be hand brushed un thinned. That what i tend to do now when painting smal pieces.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Dragon 1/35th Pz II Ausf F

  • Member since
    June, 2013
  • From: Jax, FL
Posted by Viejo on Monday, August 07, 2017 2:42 PM

Try laying down some Future between enamel coats.  it's  acrylic and should protect the layers.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, August 07, 2017 2:46 PM

Curing time is definitely an issue. When I use enamels, I usually go a week between colors. Acrylics a couple of days.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Arlington, TX
Posted by Wally75 on Monday, August 07, 2017 3:06 PM

Bish

My first thought is that you are over thinning the paint. Its been years since i brush painted a complete model, but even then i never had that issue. I am not familiar with Testors, but most paints can be hand brushed un thinned. That what i tend to do now when painting smal pieces.

 

Thanks for the response. So I ran a test with the green over the brown on the test plastic with different amount of thinner and this certainly plays a role here but doesn't seem to solve the problem completely. Also, straight out of the bottle is too thick for large areas and does not self-levels well. For small pieces, I'm painting out of the bottle without a problem. 

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Arlington, TX
Posted by Wally75 on Monday, August 07, 2017 3:11 PM

Viejo

Try laying down some Future between enamel coats.  it's  acrylic and should protect the layers.

Future as in the floor wax, right? Can I use that as a gloss coat in preparation for applying decals as well? i.e. apply some now, paint the green, apply another coat future, apply decals... Also, would a Rust-Oleum clear gloss spray can work instead? or do you think I'm gonna have the same problem with the thinner messing up the enamel clear coat? 

Thanks!

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, August 07, 2017 3:16 PM

Wally75
 
Bish

My first thought is that you are over thinning the paint. Its been years since i brush painted a complete model, but even then i never had that issue. I am not familiar with Testors, but most paints can be hand brushed un thinned. That what i tend to do now when painting smal pieces.

 

 

 

Thanks for the response. So I ran a test with the green over the brown on the test plastic with different amount of thinner and this certainly plays a role here but doesn't seem to solve the problem completely. Also, straight out of the bottle is too thick for large areas and does not self-levels well. For small pieces, I'm painting out of the bottle without a problem. 

 

Interesting, never a problem i have come across when i did used to brush paint whole models. I mainly use Xtracolour enamels and though i use an airbrush, it seems thin enought to brush paint.

As far as future goes, yes, the floor polish. Its been used by model bulders for some time, both to provide a glos coat before decals as well as protect enamels before weathering.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Dragon 1/35th Pz II Ausf F

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Arlington, TX
Posted by Wally75 on Monday, August 07, 2017 3:17 PM

GMorrison

Curing time is definitely an issue. When I use enamels, I usually go a week between colors. Acrylics a couple of days.

Interesting! I didn't know it could take so long. Are you airbrushing or hand-brushing?

I might use acrylics next to save some time and complete the first few models quickly to at least try to master the basics. 

I'm going out of town for a week so I'll give it a try when I get back. I love the fact that there is so much to learn here and that experimenting seems to be a big part of this hobby. 

Finally, love your avatar. General Turgidson is one of my favorite movie characters and Dr. Strangelove is one of my top 5 movies. 

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Arlington, TX
Posted by Wally75 on Monday, August 07, 2017 3:23 PM

Bish

Interesting, never a problem i have come across when i did used to brush paint whole models. I mainly use Xtracolour enamels and though i use an airbrush, it seems thin enought to brush paint.

As far as future goes, yes, the floor polish. Its been used by model bulders for some time, both to provide a glos coat before decals as well as protect enamels before weathering.

I'm suspecting it might be brand related. Also, I wonder if the paint curing in a fairly hot room has anything to do with it. 

 

I'm glad you mentioned weathering. I bought a bottle of an acrylic wash to use on the panel lines/raised details. So if I wanted to apply this it should be after the gloss coat, right?

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, August 07, 2017 3:43 PM

Avatar? 

Yeah, me too.

If you look at the British model mags, a lot of the modelers handbrush. It's a really good skill to learn. Unfortunately many of us got started the wrong way, with crappy little round brushes that fell apart. My favorite brushes are flats, 1/4" or a little smaller.

What you can do is have a couple- three models going at once. Like a Spitfire, Hurricane and Mosquito. That way it's a lot of the same paint, etc. Work on one alternating every day or so. That'll extend your drying time, along with the other usual distractions like yard work.

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, August 07, 2017 3:51 PM

Wally75
 
Bish

Interesting, never a problem i have come across when i did used to brush paint whole models. I mainly use Xtracolour enamels and though i use an airbrush, it seems thin enought to brush paint.

As far as future goes, yes, the floor polish. Its been used by model bulders for some time, both to provide a glos coat before decals as well as protect enamels before weathering.

 

 

I'm suspecting it might be brand related. Also, I wonder if the paint curing in a fairly hot room has anything to do with it. 

 

I'm glad you mentioned weathering. I bought a bottle of an acrylic wash to use on the panel lines/raised details. So if I wanted to apply this it should be after the gloss coat, right?

 

Climate can have an effect as wel.

Useing acrylic weathering products, you don't need to protect enamel paints. You only need to do that if you are useing oil or enamel washes, which i do on armour.

Basic rule for weathering, opposites don't react. A wash includes a thinner, so if that thinner is what you could use to thin the paint the wash is applied to, thats not good.

For aircraft i use flory wash, and depending on the effect i want will determine if i apply it to a gloss or mat finished. On gloss, its easier to remove excess and leave a cleaner look. For a dirtier look i apply it to a matt finish and this keep hold of more of the wash as i remove it.

I have never used an acrylic wash, so hard to say. Best suggestion i have is to try in on somthing as you have done with the paint.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Dragon 1/35th Pz II Ausf F

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Arlington, TX
Posted by Wally75 on Monday, August 07, 2017 3:55 PM

GMorrison

What you can do is have a couple- three models going at once. Like a Spitfire, Hurricane and Mosquito. That way it's a lot of the same paint, etc. Work on one alternating every day or so. That'll extend your drying time, along with the other usual distractions like yard work.

 

Yeah, that idea crossed my mind and I think I'm gonna do it. I do have another kit (different colors but I have them!) that I can start working on. A Ju 87, which happens to be my favorite WW2 plane. Getting the Mosquito and the Hurricane is a great idea so I don't have to get new colors.

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, August 07, 2017 4:01 PM

Wally75
 
GMorrison

What you can do is have a couple- three models going at once. Like a Spitfire, Hurricane and Mosquito. That way it's a lot of the same paint, etc. Work on one alternating every day or so. That'll extend your drying time, along with the other usual distractions like yard work.

 

 

 

Yeah, that idea crossed my mind and I think I'm gonna do it. I do have another kit (different colors but I have them!) that I can start working on. A Ju 87, which happens to be my favorite WW2 plane. Getting the Mosquito and the Hurricane is a great idea so I don't have to get new colors.

 

 

Thats what i like to see, another Stuka. Which kit if you don't mind me asking.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Dragon 1/35th Pz II Ausf F

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, August 07, 2017 4:04 PM

Cool, good plan. It's also a nice way to go because any research you get into (modeling for me is an excuse to buy books) gets broadly useful. Like the armor modelers, who happily will build a dozen Shermans.

Now, that said, I'm currently building two 1/350 USN aircraft carriers at once. And I've just about glued the deck of the one on the hull of the other at least twice!

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Arlington, TX
Posted by Wally75 on Monday, August 07, 2017 4:19 PM

Bish

Thats what i like to see, another Stuka. Which kit if you don't mind me asking.

 

I got the Revell (1:48) Ju 87G-1, so the infamous "Kanonenvogel." I know there are much better Stuka kits out there but I'm considering my first two kits as "learn the basics" kits. In all likelihood this won't be the only Stuka kit I'll build. Which one do you recommend?

 

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Arlington, TX
Posted by Wally75 on Monday, August 07, 2017 4:22 PM

GMorrison

Now, that said, I'm currently building two 1/350 USN aircraft carriers at once. And I've just about glued the deck of the one on the hull of the other at least twice!

 

Nice! I look forward to seeing pictures when completed!

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, August 07, 2017 4:31 PM

Wally75
 
Bish

Thats what i like to see, another Stuka. Which kit if you don't mind me asking.

 

 

 

I got the Revell (1:48) Ju 87G-1, so the infamous "Kanonenvogel." I know there are much better Stuka kits out there but I'm considering my first two kits as "learn the basics" kits. In all likelihood this won't be the only Stuka kit I'll build. Which one do you recommend?

 

 

I do like the G. I build 72nd, so hard for me to suggest another scale. But in 72nd, the Academy G's are the best out there, though i have yet to build the new Airfix B kit, so i'll see.

I'm a bit of a Stuka fanatic and have built 5 72nd kits so far, including both the G-1 and G-2, with another 8 in the stash, for now at least. I will be doing the Hasegawa 32nd and 48th G-2's soon, so will gett o see what the larger ones are like.

Will look forward to seeing yours.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Dragon 1/35th Pz II Ausf F

  • Member since
    August, 2013
Posted by Jay Jay on Monday, August 07, 2017 4:39 PM

Welcome Sign to the wonderfull, rewarding, satisfying and frustrating world of modeling. Glad to have you aboard and I guarentee that you'll never be the same  LOL

The good folks here are all willing and able to answer any questions that may arise  so ask away I've been modeling for about 4 years now and I still have many.( Actually I modeled extensively as a kid but that really doesn't count.)

As to the painting question, I usually airbrush paint with acrylics, gloss with Future or Alclad Aqua gloss, apply decals, gloss again ,wash with oils then seal/top coat with Testors flat laquer.  Works for me.

 

 

 

 

 

 I'm finally retired. Now time I got, money I don't.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Arlington, TX
Posted by Wally75 on Monday, August 07, 2017 4:46 PM

Bish

 

I'm a bit of a Stuka fanatic and have built 5 72nd kits so far, including both the G-1 and G-2, with another 8 in the stash, for now at least. I will be doing the Hasegawa 32nd and 48th G-2's soon, so will gett o see what the larger ones are like.

 

 

That's pretty cool! Hans Rudel's book is next in my reading queue.

1:48 seemed to me, for some reason, as a natural choice for a beginner, but I would like to explore other scales as well. Thanks for the recommendation. 

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Arlington, TX
Posted by Wally75 on Monday, August 07, 2017 4:49 PM

Jay Jay

Welcome Sign to the wonderfull, rewarding, satisfying and frustrating world of modeling. Glad to have you aboard and I guarentee that you'll never be the same  LOL

The good folks here are all willing and able to answer any questions that may arise  so ask away I've been modeling for about 4 years now and I still have many.( Actually I modeled extensively as a kid but that really doesn't count.)

As to the painting question, I usually airbrush paint with acrylics, gloss with Future or Alclad Aqua gloss, apply decals, gloss again ,wash with oils then seal/top coat with Testors flat laquer.  Works for me.

 

 

Awesome! Thanks!

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 1:47 AM

Wally75

 

 
Bish

 

I'm a bit of a Stuka fanatic and have built 5 72nd kits so far, including both the G-1 and G-2, with another 8 in the stash, for now at least. I will be doing the Hasegawa 32nd and 48th G-2's soon, so will gett o see what the larger ones are like.

 

 

 

 

That's pretty cool! Hans Rudel's book is next in my reading queue.

1:48 seemed to me, for some reason, as a natural choice for a beginner, but I would like to explore other scales as well. Thanks for the recommendation. 

 

I did read it many years ago, need to get a new copy and re-visit it. 3 of the Stuka's i built were done early this year along with a 190 as part of a Rudel build involving 10 kits. I know he is rather controversal, but for me that doesn't take away his skills as a Stuka pilot.

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/2/t/173863.aspx

 

72nd has been my scale of chouce for many years now. Apart from the range, as i mostly build dio's, i find it much easier in this scale due to less size and bigger range of accesories. But i do have a small collection of 32nd and the odd 48th, mostly that people have given me. Doesn't hurt to try other things.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Dragon 1/35th Pz II Ausf F

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by laskdjn on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 9:04 AM

Bish

 

 
Wally75
 
Bish

Interesting, never a problem i have come across when i did used to brush paint whole models. I mainly use Xtracolour enamels and though i use an airbrush, it seems thin enought to brush paint.

As far as future goes, yes, the floor polish. Its been used by model bulders for some time, both to provide a glos coat before decals as well as protect enamels before weathering.

 

 

I'm suspecting it might be brand related. Also, I wonder if the paint curing in a fairly hot room has anything to do with it. 

 

I'm glad you mentioned weathering. I bought a bottle of an acrylic wash to use on the panel lines/raised details. So if I wanted to apply this it should be after the gloss coat, right?

 

 

 

Climate can have an effect as wel.

Useing acrylic weathering products, you don't need to protect enamel paints. You only need to do that if you are useing oil or enamel washes, which i do on armour.

Basic rule for weathering, opposites don't react. A wash includes a thinner, so if that thinner is what you could use to thin the paint the wash is applied to, thats not good.

For aircraft i use flory wash, and depending on the effect i want will determine if i apply it to a gloss or mat finished. On gloss, its easier to remove excess and leave a cleaner look. For a dirtier look i apply it to a matt finish and this keep hold of more of the wash as i remove it.

I have never used an acrylic wash, so hard to say. Best suggestion i have is to try in on somthing as you have done with the paint.

 

 

I've tried using the Vallejo washes.  And they're finicky.  If you try to use them on Future, it will stain the future underneath the wash and leave tide marks.  Naturally, this should be obvious as Future is an acrylic resin.  However, if you use Vallejo's Clear Gloss Varnish, the washes work fine.  Personally, since I really like to use Future, I just switched the MIG enamel washes.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Arlington, TX
Posted by Wally75 on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 11:12 AM

Bish

Surprise blown away! I'll read the whole thread carefully when I get back to town next week and before I start working on the Stuka kit.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
  • From: Arlington, TX
Posted by Wally75 on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 11:21 AM

laskdjn

I've tried using the Vallejo washes.  And they're finicky.  If you try to use them on Future, it will stain the future underneath the wash and leave tide marks.  Naturally, this should be obvious as Future is an acrylic resin.  However, if you use Vallejo's Clear Gloss Varnish, the washes work fine.  Personally, since I really like to use Future, I just switched the MIG enamel washes.

 

Thanks, this helps too. What I'm thinking about doing is applying the future on the brown enamel background color,  apply the green enamel over,  and maybe use an enamel gloss before and after decals.  After that the acrylic wash.  Does it seems too make sense?

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by laskdjn on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 11:30 AM

Yup.  acrylic wash on enamel gloss clear coat

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 2:08 PM

Wally75
 
Bish

 

Surprise blown away! I'll read the whole thread carefully when I get back to town next week and before I start working on the Stuka kit.

 

Thanks. I should be starting on the 32nd kit in a week or so, once i have finished my current build.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

  

On the bench: Dragon 1/35th Pz II Ausf F

  • Member since
    March, 2013
Posted by patrick206 on Tuesday, August 08, 2017 2:50 PM

Hi, Wally - In your original post you stated that you had thinned to "the consistency of milk." That expression applies to thinning for airbrushing, when your first coat of paint got messed up by the next coat, I'm thinking it was due to the high content of the thinner.

It's no longer available, but when I hand painted I had great results with Polly Scale acrylic. Now there is Vallejo Model Color acrylic, I haven't used it much for brushing, but it seems to be pretty much like the Polly Scale. Worth a try, if you have it locally available.

Patrick 

  • Member since
    January, 2014
Posted by Silver on Friday, August 11, 2017 11:43 AM

Start using acrylic's and use a good quality real sable style of assorted brushes.Brush lightly then return again in dry areas then return again until completely covered.Enamels soon will be a thing of the past.Easy clean up and a better assortment of colors.

  • Member since
    March, 2005
  • From: Lancaster, South Carolina
Posted by Devil Dawg on Saturday, August 12, 2017 3:19 PM

Wally75

Hi, 

So I recently decided to start model building as a new hobby. I've never done it before and decided to start with an easy one, the 1:48 Spitfire by Revell (like many in the community I want to work on WW2 plane models). I'm painting (hand brush) with Testors enamels and thinner and I have encountered a problem although a few solutions have been suggested on youtube. I'm painting a camo pattern of brown and dark green on it with the brown as the ground color. I let the brown dry for about 48 hours but when I started with green it messed up (removed) the brown undercoat. I guess the thinner in the dark green (thinned to the consistency of milk) is removing the brown undercoat. I actually did it on a piece of plastic for testing purposes so I haven't ruined the paint job on the model yet---I had read comments from people having the same problem. Someone suggested it probably needed longer curing time but I'm not sure that will solve the problem completely. I'm considering trying another thinner (mineral spirits?) as Testors seems fairly strong. Also, I'm assuming that if I paint the green with acrylics it shouldn't be a problem (???). Anyways, I have more questions but this is the main concern right now. 

Thanks for helping! 

Hi, Wally! Hope this advice helps:

When I brush-paint enamels, I pour some paint into a gum blister pack (or whatever you use to mix paints - the blister packs that chewing gum (or over-the-counter meds) comes in work great for me, as there are usually 15-20 blisters on each pack that you can use), then put just a couple of drops of the appropriate thinner in the paint, then mix it up thoroughly. The small amount of thinner thins the paint just enough to allow the paint to level (get rid of the brush strokes) and spread more consistently. It will still look, and be, thicker than air-brush-ready paint. Also, clean your brush after every 5 - 6 applications of paint - this keeps the paint from drying in the brush while you're still painting. Once you clean the brush, let it dry for a few minutes to keep the cleaner/thinnner from affecting the next application of paint.

When I brush paint the exterior of a model (which is rare, except for cockpits and wheelwells occasionally), I never paint the entire model with one color - I will draw the demarcation lines with a pencil (the thinner the lead, the better), then paint the appropriate colors within those lines. That way, you're not overpainting one color with another, which avoids the issues that you're having. Once you apply the paint, the paint will cover the pencil lines, and they're gone for good.

To fix or prevent what you're experiencing now, I would go with the suggestions that have already been made - coat with Future (or any good clear-coat), wait a few days to allow that clear-coat to cure, then paint the next color.

 

Good Luck with this! Always let these errors be a learning experience!

Regards,

Gary Mason

 

Devil Dawg

On The Bench: 1/48th Academy Sikorsky CH-53E Super Stallion; 1/48th Hasegawa A-7 Corsair II; 1/48th Hasegawa F/A-18F Super Hornet; 1/48th Eduard Fokker Dr. 1 Triplane; 1/48th Eduard/Hasegawa Ultimate Sabre with "MiG Mad Marine" markings; 1/48th Monogram Douglas TBD-1 Devastator; 1/48th Monogram Pro-Modeler A-26B Invader

Build one at a time? Hah! That'll be the day!!

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