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Need help with fuselage covering

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Bis
  • Member since
    April, 2018
Need help with fuselage covering
Posted by Bis on Tuesday, June 12, 2018 5:40 PM

Hi all  it was suggested that I post my question here instead of under paper models. So here I am.

I am about to start covering my P51 fuselage with tissue paper. My question is since the sides of the fuselage are flat and a solid sheet of wood do I apply glue to the entire surface or just outline the fuselage with glue.

 If I cover the entire side, then I won't be able to shrink the paper so it better go on right the first time. 

If I glue the outline of the fuselage,  do I glue the paper where the wing spars go into the fuselage ?

 I hope all this makes sense,  thanks for any help you can offer.

From, Crockett Texas.

 

  • Member since
    March, 2005
Posted by philo426 on Tuesday, June 12, 2018 8:12 PM

Can you post pics of the model?

  • Member since
    July, 2012
  • From: Douglas AZ
Posted by littletimmy on Tuesday, June 12, 2018 9:56 PM

I can't remember the last time I did a "Stick and Tissue" Airplane.... ( 1977 ? )

I seem to recall that I Outlined the Fusalage with glue and then applyed the Tissue. Apply the glue "SPARINGLY" or you will end up with gummy paper on the framework. ( It will Ooze everywhere and wont dry for day's.) If the Tissue absorb's too much glue , it won't be smooth when it dry's . This will lead to lumpy paint later. And the tissue will eventually tear.

I didn't glue paper where the Wing Spars went in. It will be a stronger bond without the paper "Sandwiched" in the joint.

 Dont worry about the thumbprint, paint it Rust , and call it "Battle Damage".

  

 

    

Bis
  • Member since
    April, 2018
Posted by Bis on Tuesday, June 12, 2018 10:16 PM

Philo426- I just spent the last hour trying to figure out how to post a picture with no luck. To say the least, I am computer illiterate. I view the grandkids as computer support , tomorrow I will see them and see if they can help.

From, Crockett Texas.

 

Bis
  • Member since
    April, 2018
Posted by Bis on Tuesday, June 12, 2018 10:28 PM

Littletimmy- thanks for the reply. The last time for me was about 1960. Sounds like I glue the outside edges of the fuselage then cutout the outline of the wing and glue the edges of the paper. A photo would make life a lot easier.

From, Crockett Texas.

 

  • Member since
    March, 2005
Posted by philo426 on Tuesday, June 12, 2018 11:34 PM

I used to use Aerogloss Fuelproorf dope back in the 70s but I do not know if it is still available as it smells really nasty !More recently,I Made a Guillows Dehavilid Beaver.Instead of tissue,I used Monokote which is a plastic film that you apply with a Hanger 9 sealing iron.Works well but it is heavier than tissue so not really suited to a rubber powered flying model.(Meant for electric or gas powered flight).Frankie Day has a tutorial on YouTube on how  to apply tissue with diluted white glue.

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 8:26 AM

What brand is the kit. You say it has sheet balsa sides?  With stringers and formers on the top and bottom?  If so, whether you cover the sides over the sheet balsa is optional.  You can just  cover the top and bottom, extending the covering around the edge of the sheet for about a sixteenth or an eighth of an inch.  You can cover the sides if you want with a seperate sheet of tissue.  If so, you do not use glue- you use clear dope.  Paint the side with one coat of clear dope, immediately lay down a sheet of tissue cut to size, and brush on a second coat of dope.  The dope will soak through the tissue and connect with the dope already hardening on the wood.  Immediately smooth out any wrinkles.  When I cover a fuselage on a model with sheet sides like that, I cover the sides first, then the top and bottom.

If the model does not have sheet sides, I still cover sides first, top and bottom later.  Depending on the curves and bumps, you may want to cover tops and bottoms with several pieces of tissue each.  the smaller the pieces you use, the easier it gets.

Also, when gluing, put the glue on the wood, not the tissue.  Whether using white glue or dope, I use a paint brush to apply the glue or dope to the wood.

There is also a technique, called wet covering, where you slightly wet  with water each piece of tissue just before you put it down on framework.  I suggest you put this off until you get a few planes under your belt using the tissue dry.  The wet tissue shrinks up better than dry, avoiding wrinkles, but is a messy, somewhat tricky job.  The wet tissue tears very easily.

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    November, 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 8:43 AM

Gosh it's been ages since mentioning stick and tissue!

Why not use Monokote instead or any current self adhesive covering material. It shrinks easy and goes down smooth. That fuel proof dope is nasty on one's lungs. Ick!

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    July, 2016
  • From: Malvern, PA
Posted by WillysMB on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 11:23 AM

Sounds like the smaller Guillows Mustang, that series all have the slab sides. Guillows has a pretty active forum at balsamodels.com For questions just like this, some pretty astounding models there too.

Bis
  • Member since
    April, 2018
Posted by Bis on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 2:45 PM

Philo426 thanks for the I put, next week I'm going to make the ninety  mile trip to the hobby store with a shopping list of what you folks have suggested and see what they have. This bird will not fly, I'm building it for a static display. Just wish they included a 4 blade prop, the 2 blade prop will look a little funny .

From, Crockett Texas.

 

Bis
  • Member since
    April, 2018
Posted by Bis on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 3:05 PM

Don Stauffer- the model is made by Guillows, kit no. 905.

 The sides are probably 70% wood with holes cut here and there, I presume for lighting. The top and bottom front half are stringer. 

  I think I'll give your way a try. I'm just not up to the wet tissue just yet.

 Thanks for the input.

From, Crockett Texas.

 

  • Member since
    March, 2005
Posted by philo426 on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 3:05 PM

Sure!by the way,is it the Guillows P51 in a green box with a combat scene on the box?I have that one but have not built it.I think it is 1/32 so a Monogram 4 bladed prop and spinner may work.You should be able to get one on the bay

Bis
  • Member since
    April, 2018
Posted by Bis on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 3:08 PM

Plasticjunkie- I'll check out momokote when I hit the hobby store.

Thanks

From, Crockett Texas.

 

Bis
  • Member since
    April, 2018
Posted by Bis on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 3:19 PM

 WillysMB yes it's a Guillows kit. Thanks for the info on the balsamodels fotum.

From, Crockett Texas.

 

Bis
  • Member since
    April, 2018
Posted by Bis on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 3:24 PM

WillysMB- yes it's a Guillows kit . Thanks for the info on the balsa forum.

From, Crockett Texas.

 

Bis
  • Member since
    April, 2018
Posted by Bis on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 3:31 PM

philo426-you are exactly right, if you look at the fuselage you will see what I'm talking about. Thanks for the info on the props.

 Sure wish I could figure out how to post a picture, it would have saved a lot of typing. 

From, Crockett Texas.

 

  • Member since
    March, 2005
Posted by philo426 on Wednesday, June 13, 2018 3:34 PM

okay,go to postimage.org and sign up.from there you can upload your pics and share them.

  • Member since
    March, 2005
Posted by philo426 on Thursday, June 14, 2018 12:04 AM

Yes not a fan of the flat sides,might be a misguided attempt to make the kits simpler to build.    

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, June 14, 2018 12:37 AM

If that's the same kit, I'd seriously cosider laminating a flat piece of sumpin' over those holes. A thin piece of cardboard folder material would probably work fine.

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Thursday, June 14, 2018 8:34 AM

If you want it to fly, I would not use Monocoat- it is heavier than tissue. It is meant more for larger RC craft than that little Mustang.  For display, Monocoat is okay. In fact there is a polished aluminum color in those iron-on coverings.  Note, however, that iron-on coverings take a certain skill set that takes as long to learn as tissue covering.  With either, however, using smaller pieces helps.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    March, 2005
Posted by philo426 on Thursday, June 14, 2018 10:02 AM

I like the Monokote,easy to work with and you can melt sections together if you have a light touch.

  • Member since
    July, 2016
  • From: Malvern, PA
Posted by WillysMB on Thursday, June 14, 2018 11:43 AM

On the Guillows site there is a nice thread on building and flying this kit. These are made to be simple flyers, not display pieces really. On the same site are a couple threads about impressive display builds using balsa in filling. Look for posts by heywoood.

Bis
  • Member since
    April, 2018
Posted by Bis on Thursday, June 14, 2018 9:10 PM

Thank you all for the inputs. I must say that things have gotten more complicated since the 1960's. I didn't get to work on the bird today, all day at the VA for checkups. Saturday I hope to get to the hobby shop.

Signed up on the Guillow's forum, but it seems that someone has to approve new people and email me something. In the mean time I can only look at the newer post and none of the pictures.

GMorrison- I have some .005 film that might work for covering the holes. It reacts to gel CA so it should bond to the wood.

 Again thank for all the great inputs and any more you might think of.

From, Crockett Texas.

 

  • Member since
    March, 2005
Posted by philo426 on Thursday, June 14, 2018 9:59 PM

Same kit as in the photo I posted?

Bis
  • Member since
    April, 2018
Posted by Bis on Thursday, June 14, 2018 10:32 PM

philo426- I'm sorry, yes that's the kit, I'm sorry I thought I had confirmed it. This is an old kit. It doesn't have  decals, it has a sheet of paper that has printed blue and white stars and bars. Also there are no notches in any of the wing ribs for the wing spars. 

From, Crockett Texas.

 

  • Member since
    March, 2005
Posted by philo426 on Thursday, June 14, 2018 10:39 PM

Mine has a full set of waterside decals.Since I have two of these kits,I will send you a set free of charge to help out if you wish.

  • Member since
    March, 2005
Posted by philo426 on Thursday, June 14, 2018 10:42 PM

Bis
  • Member since
    April, 2018
Posted by Bis on Friday, June 15, 2018 8:48 AM

Philo426- that would be great, thank you. I'll see if I can figure out how to pm you.

From, Crockett Texas.

 

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Friday, June 15, 2018 8:53 AM

WillysMB

On the Guillows site there is a nice thread on building and flying this kit. These are made to be simple flyers, not display pieces really. On the same site are a couple threads about impressive display builds using balsa in filling. Look for posts by heywoood.

 

I have found stiff but thin plastic coated cardstock makes a great covering for scale planes that you do not intend to fly. It holds its curvature just like thin metal, and is much easier to do than carving balsa block inserts.  And the plastic coating means it primes well.

The ideal cardboard is old IBM punch cards (remember those?).  When I discovered this fact, I bought or collected all I could find.  My supply is getting pretty sparse though.  They also are useful in detailing plastic models.  I have removed thick gun shields on model ships and other similar models and replaced them using the stuff.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, June 15, 2018 9:03 AM

I was permanently 86'd from the Computer Lab at Poly. I was building a model of a building that required a lot of perforated "metal" sunscreens, so I had the idea of setting the card punch machine (Keypunch) to punch every hole in a deck of cards. 

Well it pretty much destroyed the machine and I never did get my cards.

I see they can be had on eBay, and no they are not cheap.

Since this is not a flying model, I can see no reason why you wouldn't take the approach of reskinning all of the easy to do surfaces with cardstock. Save the investment in dope, monocote and whatever for another project. It'd look a whole lot better.

 

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