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Did Hasegawa make up a Fighter Squadron?

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  • Member since
    May, 2016
  • From: Rapid city SD
Did Hasegawa make up a Fighter Squadron?
Posted by B-1 CrewCheif on Monday, January 07, 2019 4:09 AM

So im building the Hasegawa 1:32 P-40N and using the parrot head on it. Being me i was interested why the squadron used this interesting nose art. When i googled the history of the 502nd Fighter Squadron all i got was links to Hasegawa kit reviews. The closest i can find to the parrot head nose art is that it was used by a graduating class at Napier Field in Alabama but even trying to reaserch the 29th Flying Training Wing was a dead end.

What are all of your thoughts on this?

Tags: 0 , 1:32 , 2 , 29 , 29th , 5 , 502 , 502nd , 9 , Alabama , Field , fighter , Hasegawa , Head , made up , Napier , P-40 , Parrot , Squadron , training , trn , trn sqd

On the Bench: 1:48 F-18F, Kitty Hawk 1:32 P-39Q, Tamiya 1:48 F-16C, and 1:1 B-1B

  • Member since
    January, 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Monday, January 07, 2019 6:18 AM

B-1 CrewCheif

So im building the Hasegawa 1:32 P-40N and using the parrot head on it. Being me i was interested why the squadron used this interesting nose art. When i googled the history of the 502nd Fighter Squadron all i got was links to Hasegawa kit reviews. The closest i can find to the parrot head nose art is that it was used by a graduating class at Napier Field in Alabama but even trying to reaserch the 29th Flying Training Wing was a dead end.

What are all of your thoughts on this?

 

No, Hasegawa did not make up a squadron. I used Bing search using "502nd Squadron" and came up with several hits. Not sure what you did. I don't use Google for my searches.

  • Member since
    May, 2016
  • From: Rapid city SD
Posted by B-1 CrewCheif on Monday, January 07, 2019 6:55 AM

BlackSheepTwoOneFour
 
B-1 CrewCheif

So im building the Hasegawa 1:32 P-40N and using the parrot head on it. Being me i was interested why the squadron used this interesting nose art. When i googled the history of the 502nd Fighter Squadron all i got was links to Hasegawa kit reviews. The closest i can find to the parrot head nose art is that it was used by a graduating class at Napier Field in Alabama but even trying to reaserch the 29th Flying Training Wing was a dead end.

What are all of your thoughts on this?

 

 

 

No, Hasegawa did not make up a squadron. I used Bing search using "502nd Squadron" and came up with several hits. Not sure what you did. I don't use Google for my searches.

 

Could you refer some of the links you found because im still not finding them

On the Bench: 1:48 F-18F, Kitty Hawk 1:32 P-39Q, Tamiya 1:48 F-16C, and 1:1 B-1B

GAF
  • Member since
    June, 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Monday, January 07, 2019 7:08 AM

B-1 CrewCheif

So im building the Hasegawa 1:32 P-40N and using the parrot head on it. Being me i was interested why the squadron used this interesting nose art. When i googled the history of the 502nd Fighter Squadron all i got was links to Hasegawa kit reviews. The closest i can find to the parrot head nose art is that it was used by a graduating class at Napier Field in Alabama but even trying to reaserch the 29th Flying Training Wing was a dead end.

What are all of your thoughts on this?

My thoughts are "hmmmm..."  The decal description lists this as the "502nd FS / 337th FG out of Punta Gorda AB, Florida".

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/hasegawa-09769-p-40n-warhawk-502nd-fighter-squadron--120294

Oddly, these decals list it as being in Nepir in 1942 (odd because the N models didn't start production until 1943).  I think this is a typo, and they meant "Napier", the field in Alabama.

http://printscale.org/product_32.html

However, information for the 337th Fighter Group does not list the 502nd as part of it's contingent.  It's possible they trained at Punta Gorda, but were not a part of the 337th FG.  The 337th was a training group, so this is possible.

http://p40hawksnest.co.nf/Service/USAAF/337FG/337FG.html

So where was the 502nd FS?  Good question.  I'll check some reference books on the P-40 and see if I can find anything.  Once it's daylight here in the states, I'm sure better experts will answer the call.

Gary 

PS> If nothing else, here's some nice photos of the Parrot head hawks at Napier field.

http://p40hawksnest.co.nf/Service/USAAF/Napier.html

 

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Monday, January 07, 2019 8:05 AM

GAF
PS> If nothing else, here's some nice photos of the Parrot head hawks at Napier field. http://p40hawksnest.co.nf/Service/USAAF/Napier.html

4th pic up from the bottom, there's a pic with a line-up. Nearest the camera is the subject of the kit, tail number 2105711.

  • Member since
    March, 2014
Posted by BarrettDuke on Monday, January 07, 2019 8:48 AM

Hey B-1. Interesting marking for sure. I pulled these off of pinterest:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d7/03/19/d7031908d3f1b83da32497245ccdfe35.jpg

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/715790934495726840

Accompanying commentary with the second link says the photos are from a book entitled, Warpath across the Pacific, page 193. Google did not produce the pinterest result, microsoft edge did, though. 

I hope this helps. Enjoy the build.

Barrett

 

  • Member since
    January, 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Wednesday, January 09, 2019 9:54 AM

B-1 CrewCheif

 

 
BlackSheepTwoOneFour
 
B-1 CrewCheif

So im building the Hasegawa 1:32 P-40N and using the parrot head on it. Being me i was interested why the squadron used this interesting nose art. When i googled the history of the 502nd Fighter Squadron all i got was links to Hasegawa kit reviews. The closest i can find to the parrot head nose art is that it was used by a graduating class at Napier Field in Alabama but even trying to reaserch the 29th Flying Training Wing was a dead end.

What are all of your thoughts on this?

 

 

 

No, Hasegawa did not make up a squadron. I used Bing search using "502nd Squadron" and came up with several hits. Not sure what you did. I don't use Google for my searches.

 

 

 

Could you refer some of the links you found because im still not finding them

 

 

Ok. I use Bing as my primary search engine. This is the result I got after typing  502nd Fighter Squadron :

 

https://www.bing.com/search?q=502nd+Fighter+Squadron&form=EDNTHT&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=ac83578afb1d46bf84d78442f2d899f2

  • Member since
    May, 2016
  • From: Rapid city SD
Posted by B-1 CrewCheif on Thursday, January 10, 2019 12:13 AM

BlackSheepTwoOneFour
 
B-1 CrewCheif

 

 
BlackSheepTwoOneFour
 
B-1 CrewCheif

So im building the Hasegawa 1:32 P-40N and using the parrot head on it. Being me i was interested why the squadron used this interesting nose art. When i googled the history of the 502nd Fighter Squadron all i got was links to Hasegawa kit reviews. The closest i can find to the parrot head nose art is that it was used by a graduating class at Napier Field in Alabama but even trying to reaserch the 29th Flying Training Wing was a dead end.

What are all of your thoughts on this?

 

 

 

No, Hasegawa did not make up a squadron. I used Bing search using "502nd Squadron" and came up with several hits. Not sure what you did. I don't use Google for my searches.

 

 

 

Could you refer some of the links you found because im still not finding them

 

 

 

 

Ok. I use Bing as my primary search engine. This is the result I got after typing  502nd Fighter Squadron :

 

https://www.bing.com/search?q=502nd+Fighter+Squadron&form=EDNTHT&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=ac83578afb1d46bf84d78442f2d899f2

 

BlackSheep

This is an Air Defense Group and they only had 1 fighter squadron being the 86th.

Also none of the information lines up. The 502nd is said to be under the 337th Fighter Group. The 337th was an actual group that operated training operations out of the South East coast area mainly out of Florida and Georgia. The had 5 Squadrons under them none of them are the 502nd.

I seriously believe Hasegawa made up a squadron but im not that surprised. It wouldnt sell well if you advertised your new markings as a training squadron so they probably made up a squadron number to make it sound cooler.

On the Bench: 1:48 F-18F, Kitty Hawk 1:32 P-39Q, Tamiya 1:48 F-16C, and 1:1 B-1B

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Thursday, January 10, 2019 12:52 AM

To further muddy the waters, I have found references to P-40N's of the 502nd FBS of the 85th FBG based at Punta Gorda AAF (FL) (The Hasegawa kit refers to this location)

Seems there are mistakes and misidentifications out there and perhaps Hasegawa are just perpetuating these rather than simply making them up themselves.

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Towson MD
Posted by gregbale on Thursday, January 10, 2019 8:34 AM

Phil_H

To further muddy the waters, I have found references to P-40N's of the 502nd FBS of the 85th FBG based at Punta Gorda AAF (FL) (The Hasegawa kit refers to this location)

Seems there are mistakes and misidentifications out there and perhaps Hasegawa are just perpetuating these rather than simply making them up themselves.

I think part of the confusion comes from the somewhat chaotic (on paper, at least) organizational structure of the USAAF Training command, before its wholesale reorganization in 1943-44. At one time I believe the Wing Command was actually based in Georgia, while the training locations/bases (and the various detachments using them) were scattered throughout the whole of the mild-weather southern-US.

Historical references sometimes give the 'paper' organizational units, sometimes refer only to bases or detachments, so it's often like 'code-cracking' to figure out just which unit a given a/c 'officially' belonged to.

Greg

 George Lewis:

"Every time you correct me on my grammar I love you a little fewer."

 

"

  • Member since
    February, 2014
  • From: Michigan
Posted by silentbob33 on Thursday, January 10, 2019 11:12 AM

GAF

 

 

PS> If nothing else, here's some nice photos of the Parrot head hawks at Napier field.

http://p40hawksnest.co.nf/Service/USAAF/Napier.html

 

 

According to this website the P-40s at Napier Field were part of the 433rd Southeast Flying Training Squadron (I can't find anything about them either).  I tried looking up the planes by their tail numbers to see if I could find squadron information, but the site I used said all of them were sent to either New Zealand or the USSR.  Obviously those planes were here in the US at one point for training, but then afterwards would they have been sent off?

On my bench: 1/48 Academy F-5E Lightning

  • Member since
    September, 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Thursday, January 10, 2019 2:07 PM

I DuckDuckGo'd "502nd fighter squadron" and the first link returned is the Wikipedia article on the 502d Air Defense Group.

 

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

GAF
  • Member since
    June, 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Thursday, January 10, 2019 2:49 PM

the Baron

I DuckDuckGo'd "502nd fighter squadron" and the first link returned is the Wikipedia article on the 502d Air Defense Group.

Yes, The 502nd Air Defense Group was formed shortly after VE day at the end of WWII, so could not be the squadron referenced by Hasegawa.

Let's summarize:  The "parrot-headed" P-40s belonged to a Single-Engined Flying Training Squadron (SEFTS) numbered 433rd based out of Napier Field, Alabama (just north of Dothan).  It seems to have been the only squadron using P-40s (of that group).

Meanwhile, there was a 337th Fighter GROUP (as noted on the Hasegawa box) that was based in Florida, and they did fly P-40s (as seen in this series of photos).

http://p40hawksnest.co.nf/Service/USAAF/337FG/337FG.html

But no "parrot-heads" to be seen, and no 502nd Fighter Squadron.

Having checked the list of Air Force Squadrons,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_Air_Force_squadrons

the only 502nd squadron I could find flying during WWII was a bombardment squadron, who flew B-17s and B-24s.  Not sure if its pilots were trained at Napier Field, but the squadron was actually a "training" squadron operating out of Dyersburg AAF in Tennessee.

Essentially, it appears that Hasegawa has made some sort of mistake in their listing.

Gary

  • Member since
    January, 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Thursday, January 10, 2019 5:48 PM

B-1 CrewCheif

 

 
BlackSheepTwoOneFour
 
B-1 CrewCheif

 

 
BlackSheepTwoOneFour
 
B-1 CrewCheif

So im building the Hasegawa 1:32 P-40N and using the parrot head on it. Being me i was interested why the squadron used this interesting nose art. When i googled the history of the 502nd Fighter Squadron all i got was links to Hasegawa kit reviews. The closest i can find to the parrot head nose art is that it was used by a graduating class at Napier Field in Alabama but even trying to reaserch the 29th Flying Training Wing was a dead end.

What are all of your thoughts on this?

 

 

 

No, Hasegawa did not make up a squadron. I used Bing search using "502nd Squadron" and came up with several hits. Not sure what you did. I don't use Google for my searches.

 

 

 

Could you refer some of the links you found because im still not finding them

 

 

 

 

Ok. I use Bing as my primary search engine. This is the result I got after typing  502nd Fighter Squadron :

 

https://www.bing.com/search?q=502nd+Fighter+Squadron&form=EDNTHT&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=ac83578afb1d46bf84d78442f2d899f2

 

 

 

BlackSheep

This is an Air Defense Group and they only had 1 fighter squadron being the 86th.

Also none of the information lines up. The 502nd is said to be under the 337th Fighter Group. The 337th was an actual group that operated training operations out of the South East coast area mainly out of Florida and Georgia. The had 5 Squadrons under them none of them are the 502nd.

I seriously believe Hasegawa made up a squadron but im not that surprised. It wouldnt sell well if you advertised your new markings as a training squadron so they probably made up a squadron number to make it sound cooler.

 

I highly doubt Hasegawa or any other brand kit would “make up” a squadron for sake of selling a kit because you believe it would look “cooler”. Sorry, I don’t buy your theory and assumption. Just saying...

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Friday, January 11, 2019 12:58 AM

Take it with a grain of salt cos the source is Wikipedia, but I did find the following under the entry for the 85th Group. (originally 85th Bombardment Group, but redesignated 85th Fighter bomber Group)

308th Bombardment Squadron (later 502d Fighter-Bomber Squadron), 10 February 1942 – 1 May 1944
Located at Punta Gorda AAF, Florida after 3 December 1943 (detached to 337th Fighter Group)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/85th_Group#Operational_Components

A search on the specific "parrot head" aircraft's serial number, 42-105711 finds an incident report here: 

https://www.aviationarchaeology.com/src/AARmonthly/Jan1945S.htm

which suggests that the aircraft in question belonged to "C" Squadron, 2116 AAFBU at Napier Field.

Looks like we're getting closer...

GAF
  • Member since
    June, 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Friday, January 11, 2019 1:50 AM

Thanks for the info, Phil!

It's interesting that the 502nd FBS, 85th FG was transferred to Punta Gorda in early December detached to the 337th FG.  Did they have "parrothead" P-40s?

Still the aircraft serial number and incident report seems to indicate it was still at Napier Field, Alabama.  Well, they did move around a lot.  As for "C" squadron -

"Early in 1944, under a general reorganization, the numbered SEFTS outfits gave way to the lettered squadrons of the 2116th Army Air Forces Base Unit."

Maybe we'll run across an image of this aircraft at Punta Gorda sometime, mislabeled perhaps...

Gary

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