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I'm confused and I need help

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  • Member since
    September, 2018
I'm confused and I need help
Posted by MikeTheMediocreModeller on Monday, June 10, 2019 4:01 PM

So , I've seen in videos that before using an enamel wash / tamiya's panel line accent , you must first put a gloss coat to protect the paint job and then remove excess with enamel thinner. But that's for using enamel paints 

I use acrylics as base color  , and a guy told me I can work with enamel washes without putting a coat but I must seal everything afterwards. 

I'm super confused , please help me clear things out 

Also what's the difference between a gloss coat, a varnish and a Matt coat

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, June 10, 2019 4:08 PM

An enamel or oil wash can be used straight onto acrylic paint. But these washes are generally best used on a gloss surface. Also, if you are doing the wash after decals, these should be sealed in before the wash. A gloss coat and matt coat are both varnish, which is simply a clear coat.

''I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so''

On the bench: ICM 1/35th Sd.Kfz 251/1 Ausf A

  • Member since
    September, 2018
Posted by MikeTheMediocreModeller on Monday, June 10, 2019 4:27 PM
But will the paint be removed if I use enamel thinner to remove excess?
  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Mansfield, TX
Posted by EdGrune on Monday, June 10, 2019 4:28 PM

If you were to look at a micro cross section of a panel from a model which is painted in a matte or flat finish you would see many inclusion in the paint.  These inclusions break up the light reflection and result in a matte/flat finish.    Back in the olden days [geez alert] when only paint we had was the little square bottles of gloss Testors or Pactra we used to add some talc to make the colors flat.  Satin paint is same process, just fewer particle inclusions.

Now when you add a wash over top of the matte/flat paint some of the wash pigment gets trapped among the flattening particles.  It is more difficult to remove the pigment from the flat coat.    The resulting surface has a shadowy or cloudy appearance where the wash was applied.

Using a gloss coat before washing allows you to remove more of the wash pigments without them getting trapped.

Bryant Dunbar of Grex Airbrushes had a good set of handouts at his hands-on seminar at last year's IPMS Nat show that showed this.  He also demonstrated why you should use gloss for your pre-shade panel lines -- again its a pigment inclusion thing.  If you're going to Chattanooga try to find him.   I think his seminars ar already sold out.

 

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Monday, June 10, 2019 4:47 PM

MikeTheMediocreModeller
But will the paint be removed if I use enamel thinner to remove excess?
 

If the gloss acrylic paint or the gloss acrylic basecoat is properly cured,then the enamel wash will have no effect on it.

  • Member since
    September, 2018
Posted by MikeTheMediocreModeller on Monday, June 10, 2019 5:08 PM
Gloss acrylic paint?
  • Member since
    July, 2018
  • From: The Deep Woods
Posted by Tickmagnet on Monday, June 10, 2019 5:18 PM

Paint mules are the best tool in the box for learning.

 

 

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Monday, June 10, 2019 5:33 PM

MikeTheMediocreModeller
Gloss acrylic paint?
 

Yes,for example,Tamiya's X colors are gloss as opposed to their XF line

  • Member since
    September, 2018
Posted by MikeTheMediocreModeller on Monday, June 10, 2019 11:22 PM
I use vallejo
  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, June 11, 2019 12:02 AM

Tickmagnet

Paint mules are the best tool in the box for learning.

 

That's true. These witches brews are completely unpredictable. Even in what I do for a living; designing and restoring buildings- you just never know what will happen when applying finish to an old painted surface.

 

  • Member since
    February, 2016
Posted by lowfly on Tuesday, June 11, 2019 7:28 AM

I too use acrylics as a base color and i have ran into this problem before as well.  It should go in this order.

 

1. Acrylic base color

2. Acrylic gloss clear coat (Something like Future or tamiya clear)

3. Decals

4. Acrylic gloss clear coat (Something like Future or tamiya clear)

5. Oil based washes using a mild thinner for the oils (NOT Turpentine!)

6. Acrylic Matte Coat

 

Trust me, I learned the hard way to not use turpintine for my oil based washes. 

 

Good luck!

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, June 11, 2019 8:29 AM

MikeTheMediocreModeller

 

I'm super confused , please help me clear things out Also what's the difference between a gloss coat, a varnish and a Matt coat

 

There are several meanings of the term varnish.  It can mean any transparent glossy coating for wood.  Or, it can mean a specific mixture like when you buy varnish from a paint or hardware store (resin dissolved in a solvent).

So by the first meaning, any glosscoat is a varnish, while by the second it may not be.  A matt coat is any transparent coat over anything that is flat or matt in sheen.  Note that by the first definition, flat varnish is an oxymoron :-)

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    September, 2018
Posted by MikeTheMediocreModeller on Tuesday, June 11, 2019 5:47 PM
Can I use vallejo gloss varnish as a clear coat?
  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Western North Carolina
Posted by Tojo72 on Wednesday, June 12, 2019 7:14 AM

MikeTheMediocreModeller
Can I use vallejo gloss varnish as a clear coat?
 

Yes,provided you are washing with enamels,oils,or lacquers.Do not use if your wash is acrylic.Also do not attempt to thin with alcohol 

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