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When taking the Hobby too serious goes too far

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  • Member since
    June, 2013
  • From: Bay Area, CA
When taking the Hobby too serious goes too far
Posted by Reaper420 on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 12:19 PM

First off let me state that by no means am I a great modeler, heck i wouldnt even say I'm good. I'd say decent, decent enough to the point that people who don't model, see my work and are blown away. The modeling community however, not so much.

At any rate, there are those of you out there who go above and beyond, and do tons of scratch work to build and create a 100% accurate mini version of the real life subject matter. My hat goes off to you. That takes a level of skill, number of years, and great dedication to the hobby to pull off. Something that one, I cannot do, nor do I care about doing at this point in my modeling career (I have lots of years ahead of me for it, I'm 35). Some others are in the same boat.

This hobby is meant for the enjoyment of the person doing the work, not so much for everyone else. There is nothing wrong with doing 100% accurate recreations, not at all! But there is also nothing wrong with wanting to build an F14D thats bright pink and covered with roses! Its the modelers perogative to build what they like and thinks looks good, not what anyone thinks. Where does it say anywhere, that as modelers, there is a strict set of rules and guidelines that must be adhered to when working on our models? Why would there be? Where is the fun in that? This hobby would blow more than a GE F110 if there was a strict set of guidelines. Everyones stuff would look the same. 

If your a rivet counter, keep on counting! If your a fair weather player, wait for that fair weather! Do what YOU like to do. Thats why our hobby is great because of the mass amount of diversity in creations.

Now to the main topic of this, well, topic!

I was at my LHS the other day, just hanging out STS with some of the old timers. A young man came in, early 20's, needed to pick up a few supplies, but also had brought in a recently completed 1/48 Saber to show it off ( my LHS owner likes to display customer builds all over the store, to a certain standard of course). Let me start by saying that I was blown away (and a bit dissapointed in myself for my lack of skills) by his work. Paint was beautiful, decaling perfect, seam lines non exsistent, everything just nice and tidy with a hint of weathering. Let me jump back real quick, this was the first model this guy had ever built, I know that because i was there the previous month when he came in saying he wanted to get a saber and build for some relative, knew nothing about the models or manufacturers and had never built a model before but wanted to try.

At any rate, he did some fantastic work. An absolute amazing job and you could really see it in his eyes that he was proud of his work. Hell, so was I! New blood for the hobby already representing!

Cue........Old..........Timers.

"Well you know, the Saber your portraying doesent........." "And you know that on this particular variant..........." "the grime and oil wouldn't really streak this way because......"

Not once did they complement him on his work. Not once. Everything they said was pointing out what was wrong, or inaccurate. As this is going on, I'm slowly watching the glimmer leave his eyes, not to mention his heart and soul! I was disgusted. I left and went home. What became of the young man, I have no idea, but I promise he will probably never model again. 

We can't have these types of things going on folks. Lets face it, young folks these days just are not interested in building models, not like they were. We loose LHS's everyday due to the internet, and decline in business. We are a dying breed, accept it or not, and any and all youngsters and new modelers that we can get, we need! Just because it isnt 100% accurate or isnt up to par, dont criticize! Instruct, teach, show! Offer to help, give tips and advice! Pass on what you know and have learned. It will increase your love and enjoyment of the hobby as well as thiers.

This hobby is about building and creating what speaks to you and you alone. No more. Thats all there is to it. Some people seem to have forgotten that and its a shame.

Now let me just throw my soap box back in the trunk.......... 

Kick the tires and light the fires!

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 12:32 PM

To those guys I would have said - yes and the sabre was much bigger and not made of plastic ;)

 

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 12:45 PM

That’s too bad. Guys like that kill the new blood. If you’re gonna critique somebody, unless there is a absolute bloody mess, you should always also include the positives as well. 

Hopefully somebody said something to the old cranks about their lack of a good side.... 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Boise ID area
Posted by modelcrazy on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 12:50 PM

I swore to myself I would'nt coment on an opinion thread but could'nt help it. This subject burns my britches.
That is a sad story, one of which I have seen too offten. I always complement builds because I know the builder has put every ounce of their particular talent into it. Will they get better over time? Maybe, maybe not, but it doesn't matter, like you said the hobby is for fun. I'm sure you chimed in a told him how imperssed you were, which should have helped some.
The last time I was in Boise, where I will be moving back in a few months, I spoke to the owner of the local HT regarding starting and intermediate modeling class. He though it was a great idea and one of the things I would emphasize is modeling does not have to be accurate, just fun. If you want to get accurate, like me, go for it, but sometimes I like to be silly and do whatever I want.

What do the old guys say about egg planes or toon tanks, they're not accurate LOL.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 1:18 PM

MC, I personally do not like the toon tanks or egg planes one bit. They do nothing for me. And I keep it to myself when I see those builds. But I know guys who love them. And I do love the old Revell and Monogram hippy era Deals Wheels like Rommel’s Rod or Rif Raf’s Spitsfire... Those crack me up! 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2016
Posted by TheWaggishAmerican on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 1:23 PM

I've been lucky enough not to experience that, but I can tell you if I had I probably wouldn't have continued in the hobby. On the other hand, my experiences with the old timer's pushed me further and helped me stick around the hobby. I went to my first ever model club when I was 9 or 10, with a POS Academy P-40 I built in a weekend and handpainted with Testors. Instead of ignoring or putting up with or chastising me, I was encouraged and helped and informed, and almost ten years later I'm still in it and intend to build for the rest of my life. 

youtube.com/c/thewaggishamerican

On the Bench- Eduard 1/48 F6F, Trumpeter 1/48 Seafang, Accurate Miniatures 1/48 F3F, Minicraft XF5F, Airfix 1/48 Ju87B, Hobbyboss 1/48 Huey. 

 

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  • Member since
    March, 2015
Posted by JohnnyK on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 1:23 PM

I do not mind constructive criticism of my models at all. For example, "Your brake lines are okay, but I have a better idea. I'll post a photo of my model." That's good, positive constructive criticism. I like to see what other modelers have done.   What I do not like is purely subjective criticism, " I don't like the Bare Metal Foil on your airplanes. It looks fake. It doesn't look like the real airplane at all." My typical respone is, "Okay, why don't you post some photos of your airplanes in NMF." Guess what happens? Nothing! 

I agree with Modelcrazy, this is supposed to be a fun hobby. It's also a way to share ideas. We are not building perfect minatures of the real thing. After all, that would not be possible. 

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 1:34 PM

Dang, I like MY models to be accurate, but every time I'm talking about other models I try to show some respect for the work and time and love that went into those models. That was clearly missing here - pity!

Thanks for reading and have a nice day

PaweĊ‚

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    July, 2018
  • From: The Deep Woods
Posted by Tickmagnet on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 1:41 PM

Sounds like a bunch of old Sheldon Coopers. They only know how to look for faults in something someone else has accomplished and point them out. Total lack of understanding of how to be complimentary.

 

 

  • Member since
    May, 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 1:53 PM

Those old timers need a Rivet Counter Intervention.  Watch out you grouchy, joyless old farts, that kid is gonna show you down one of these days.  Unless you killed his enthusiasm, in which case we can skip the intervention and just hand out swift kicks to the a**.

Plastic modeling is a hobby, which means it should be enjoyable.  And while constructive feedback from others is valuable, it should be up to the individual to decide how far to take it, and not have to endure someone else's personal dogma ("...well the real thing was NOT that way so your model is INACCURATE").  I have noticed these self-appointed experts are the least happy people in any modeling group.  They need to be less serious.  And maybe get shown a magic trick using a pencil.

https://flic.kr/p/srR4kf] [/url]Joker by N.T. Izumi, on Flickr

It annoys me to no end when some guy says a model kit was a waste of plastic because the real thing didn't win any wars.  Wars not make one great, and plastic toys do not fight wars.  Yeah, I just called your precious little fantasies TOYS, you scale-only curmudgeons.  How many Zeroes did your 1/48 Hellcat shoot down?  Not counting the imaginary ones you shot down when you thought no one was looking.  I have been told to my face that plastic models MUST have historical significance in order to be valid, which is just a heaping load of horse manure.

Build what you want, how you want.  Strive to improve if you want to, and focus on having fun.  Oops, I used all caps on some words.  I'd better dial it down and take it less seriously.  I apologize for the rant, as it is a sore spot for me.

  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 2:17 PM

There is a local guy who refuses to have anything to do with our club (which is also the local IPMS chapter), because we don't build to his standards.  Granted he is an award level modeler, but he could be a font of information and tips, help etc. to the rest of us.

All in all, I think the club is way better off without him..........

If someone wants to slam what I build, fine, but they can expect incoming as they are told to stick it where the sun never shines.  If they want to help with ideas or tips, or a better way, I'm all ears.  The latter is all I've ever run into here, and it is appreciated.

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 3:00 PM

Okay ! 

 Hmmm , darned that's a nice job .I tried many times with that part and it didn't turn out that way for me ? Or , Hey ! Are those aftermarket Decals and which company did you contact ? Oh  ,and you got them on so beautifully .Gees , can't anyone say anything nice about someone else's models ? What the *&() happened to plain old courtesy ? T.B.

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 3:01 PM

Real G;

 AMEN !!!!! T.B.

  • Member since
    June, 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 3:03 PM

So ;

 Is there any real difference between " Deals Wheels " and an " Egg Plane" ? Just a different sense of humor Like the old Monogram " FlapJack " .

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 3:11 PM

Tanker - Builder

So ;

 Is there any real difference between " Deals Wheels " and an " Egg Plane" ? Just a different sense of humor Like the old Monogram " FlapJack " .

 

Exactly. It’s the sense of humor involved. And perhaps it’s a bit of nostalgia for that time in childhood when I first came across them. I have no such connection for the egg/toon stuff. I’ve seen those built into great models. I can appreciate the workmanship involved. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June, 2013
  • From: Bay Area, CA
Posted by Reaper420 on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 4:36 PM

Im my 6 years on this forum, i have never run into anything other than helpful, constructive criticism. And I have become a better modeler for it. I used to model just fantasy stuff, namely Warhammer 40K and i got real darn good at it, real darn good. But when i made the switch to real life subject matter, well i was weighed, measured and found wanting (not by anyone here). My first attempt was the Revell F4U Corsair. I built it up, liked it but wasnt happy. You can actually see it in my post collection. Everyone was super nice, said that it was great for my first attempt and even offered ideas on where i could make it even better. Thats what kept me in it. And my skills have steadily started to increase, not as great as most of you here, but im getting there. Im still learning and trying new techniques.

As for the young modeler, hopefully me telling him that he did a fantastic job will help wash away the later crticisms of the old farts....I mean timers, and he will not walk away.

To all of you that commented, thank you for having the right attitude and for inspiring those of us not yet on the same level to strive to do better and continue to love the hobby!

Kick the tires and light the fires!

  • Member since
    January, 2013
Posted by BlackSheepTwoOneFour on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 6:02 PM

Ok, this story really burns my @$$. Being married into an Italian family, there‘d be a couple harsh responses from me: **** off and ## #### yourself. Nobody asked for your opinion. I can guarantee that’ll shut’em up real fast.

  • Member since
    February, 2016
  • From: Ice coated north 40 saskatchewan
Posted by German Armour on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 6:40 PM
Boy, thats really sad. Instead of taking a strip out of that poor guys hide they shoulda made kind constructive critisim. It's his 1st model for petes sake! He can't get every thing right on the 1st try! :( This is what will kill the hobby if it goes on unchecked!

 Never give up, never quit, never stop modelling.Idea

 

  • Member since
    August, 2012
  • From: Parker City, IN.
Posted by Rambo on Tuesday, February 05, 2019 8:02 PM
Got couple of old farts at my LHS that rip apart everything that's not a car. Usually something like how can you make killing machines. Then for the poor guys that bring cars in they are never up to their standards. If I know nothing about the subject I'm looking at I'll complement the construction or something else. If I just don't like it well I keep that to myself.

Clint

  • Member since
    June, 2018
  • From: Ohio (USA)
Posted by DRUMS01 on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 12:22 AM

It sounds like we all agree about the sad situation that occurred during that young mans visit. Lets hope he still continues in the hobby but with some other hobby shop... 

Another dimension to our hobby is the friendship, comradrie, and respect we establish. This should go on regardless if it is through a forum or in person. It sounds to me that the LHS in question will not be around much longer if that is thier level of customer service. 

I am happy that we, in our forum, are most always honoring the golden rule. For me, I can see great things in any build. I, like many, do not hold a strong interest in every single type of modeling subject, but that does not mean I cannot appreciate the skills and effort applied to ANY build.  

To me each build is an opportunity to share some knowledge or learn something new from another; and gain a new hobby friend in the process.

P.S.: Life is short.... enjoy the ride...... nobody gets out alive anyway.

Ben 

I am a Veteran; to all other Veterans thank you for your service. Retired now and living well

PROJECTS:

- 1/350 USS Alabama - Staged

- 90mm Achilles Resin Figure - WIP

- 120mm SS Panzer Officer - Done

 

 

 

  • Member since
    November, 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 4:12 AM

Quite a few years back (in fact when Revell released their Arado float plane) I built it up and entered it into a local model show. I did my due diligence and researched the aircraft and colours and painted it up with RLM 72/73/65 maritime paint matched to chipsets and known splinter patterns with references to photos of original aircraft.

filling in the sheet on the build I noted paint, build OOB etc.

Judges comments were that it was a good build to a very high standard but the paint was wrong. When I queried this, the judge told me he didn't know anything about aircraft.

Never been inclined to enter a competition since. I would rather be judged by my peers than an idiot.

I do so enjoy seeing other builds and seeing the techniques used and learning them which is why I will always try and post on the way I do stuff because it may just help someone else.

If you see that guy again, encourage him and tell him to join up here where he can get help, learn new stuff and make lots of new friends and most importantly.... Have fun!

I myself would have stood up for that guy and told the old dudes to shut up unless that can say something positive about this first build!

That's the soldier in me though!

 

 

James

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 8:26 AM

I'm no spring chicken, yet I have little tolerance for grumpy old people. I've been through crap in my life too, so have you, and so has everyone else. I could give a hoot less about the sob story that created their attitude. If they are in good enough shape to be out and about and hanging around a hobby shop, they are in good enough shape to pretend to be decent members of our human race.

This isn't the first time I've read here about 'creepy old men' hanging around the LHS, or sometimes the model aisle at Hobby Lobby. At first I thought OP's were maybe jumping to conclusions, I guess there might be something to this.

 

-Greg

  • Member since
    March, 2015
Posted by Rotorhead13 on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 9:53 AM

I'm an old guy, but I ain't never been grumpy. I do, however, have a bit of a different takeaway from this story. I built my first kit with my father, in 58 or 59, and all we did was glue it together and put on the decals. It was the Monogram P-40, and I thought it was beautiful. I built all my early kits this way until I was in the Boy Scouts. One year we all had to buy a model kit for Christmas and give it to somebody else. I got a Blue Angels jet (possibly a Panther, don't really remember), and we had to build it before the next meeting. This was the first time I ever tried to paint a model, and I did it by hand. Didn't even know there was such a thing as an airbrush. Well, I did it, but those yellow lines were just a mess. I was embarrassed as hell to put it on display because everybody else brought in fantastic looking models. They had a contest, and, believe it or not, I came in second place. Know why? It was because the judges knew most the kits were actually built by the fathers, and the guy who won was the only other kid who actually built it himself. It was the old Revell B-36, and it was so nice I wanted a B-36, too.

My point is, this incident didn't scare me off the hobby. I was still mortified I had to put such an awful plane on display, and I immediately threw it away, but my resolve was only strengthened. I swore I would never build such a monstrosity again.

I've hit the hobby pretty hard since then, and I'm happy to say every one of my kits could win a Boy Scout contest now, but it bothers me the young kids today don't seem to have this same drive. Something's lacking when quitting is the first option taken after a few jerks shoot off their fat mouths. Whatever happened to "If at first you don't succeed... Try, try again!"?

  • Member since
    May, 2013
  • From: Indiana, USA
Posted by Greg on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 12:07 PM

Rotorhead does make a good point, IMO. All critique is not bad, and I sort of forgot that while writing my rant.

Might depend on how it was delivered, and I failed to consider that.

-Greg

  • Member since
    May, 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 12:54 PM

Rotorhead, you are a resilient person who can take it, and that is a good thing to be.  And you built that model by yourself, which was what everyone else was supposed to do.  That shows good character and honor.

Unfortunately not everyone is strong in that way.  The local IPMS club had a model contest at a shopping mall that was open to the public.  There was this fellow who brought in a model.  He stopped at a table that had entries already on it, took one look at them, then turned away and left.  I felt awful that he was intimidated into not participating.  Who knows what could have happened if he had stayed?  I met one one of my future modeling buddies at that same contest, so I am grateful that he wasn't scared away.  He was a relative beginner at the time, but I could definitely see potential in his work, plus he had a really enthusiastic attitude.  Since then, I made up my mind to always try to be helpful to beginners and make modeling feel less intimidating to them.

And a confession:  I was not a particularly confident modeler either.  When I attended my first local IPMS meeting I felt that intimidation.  If not for two members who took the time to greet me and ask me about what I liked to build, etc., I would have never returned.  So I know what it feels like firsthand to be scared away by the old fart experts, and that is why I hold those types in such contempt.

  • Member since
    March, 2015
Posted by Rotorhead13 on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 2:47 PM

I also have no use for folks who throw in pointless criticisms, especially in the case of a very well done model. Geez louise, I never even knew about putty until I was almost thirty, and I still think the kits I built before then appear just fine. As far as I'm concerned, a decent paint job is 90% of what makes a model stand out. I don't belong to any modeling clubs, and I have no desire to enter contests. I just build for me, and that has always been good enough. Just bugs me how easily folks quit things these days. Nobody is likely to produce a perfect model the first time, and it's unrealistic to expect to do so. Part of the fun is in learning how to improve.

I don't know if this person is going to quit the hobby, when his own eyes can tell him he put forth a great effort, but, if he does, it indicates we have raised a generation or two of people who will never be able to deal with any problems at all in life. I just worry this means he'll behave the same way in the workplace. If he can't take this, how many jobs will he quit after somebody tells him he could have done better work? Part of growing up is learning when you have to listen and when you should just ignore the naysayers. If we all lived our lives based strictly upon what others thought, every one of us would either end up being miserable all the time, or we'd commit suicide. I believe every person on this forum has already proven they know how how to separate the good remarks from the useless ones, and that little skill is the one I think we should work the hardest to pass on.  

  • Member since
    March, 2015
Posted by JohnnyK on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 4:05 PM

I think that positive criticism of one's model is a good thing. It promotes better modeling skills by incorporating other modeler's ideas. I know that accepting criticism is a difficult thing for most modelers to accept. Their model is such a personal thing. I am a retired architect. I would have to pin my building designs on a wall and a team of 5 or 6 people would critique my designs. At first it was very difficult to deal with all that criticism. After a while I learned to accept the criticism because it improved the quality of my designs. Positive criticism is a good thing. Negative criticism can be emotionally dibilitating and should be avoided.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 4:12 PM

Esp. after being up three nights in a row at the drafting board, drinking a jar's worth of Taster's Choice, and having to present to a visiting professor.

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Franklin Wi
Posted by Bakster on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 5:01 PM

I think the issue at hand is that they didn't give any positive feedback. I am sure the builder would have been open to critique if they delivered it better. Done in the right way, it's good stuff.  

If you see him again I would encourage you to pull him aside and tell him how you feel about his work.

The story is sad to hear.

 

  • Member since
    March, 2015
Posted by JohnnyK on Wednesday, February 06, 2019 7:43 PM

GMorrison

Esp. after being up three nights in a row at the drafting board, drinking a jar's worth of Taster's Choice, and having to present to a visiting professor.

 

OMG OMG OMG I remember doing that at U of I!!!!!. Drinking gallons of Taster's Choice just to stay awake. Spending hours making drawings on Strathmore board and making  models of buildings from cardboard just to get your "behind" reamed by the professor (Stanley Tigerman). Man, those were the days.

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