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Question about hand painting

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  • Member since
    July 2019
Question about hand painting
Posted by Robert631 on Saturday, July 6, 2019 7:38 PM

Still pretty new to modeling. Can't afford an air brush so I'm starting by hand painting. Every single time I lay a new coat of paint, the bristles on the brush wipes away the paint leaving white streaks in the middle. How do I fix this?? its very furstrating

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Monday, July 8, 2019 10:37 AM

Your paint is too thick. You need to stir the paint properly with the handle of an old paint brush or cut a stirrer from a straight section of unused plastic sprue. If the paint is older, a few drops of thinner made for that type and brand of paint will help.

Before painting directly on your surface, you want to make a few practice strokes on an unseen surface or on some spare parts or an old kit that has been demoted to paint test vehicle.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, July 8, 2019 11:14 AM

Take more time between coats. You didn't mention the type of paint, acrylic or enamel. Take anywhere from a couple of days for acrylic to up to a week for enamels.

The paint consistency should be like half-and- half. Figure three coats per color.

Thinner never hurts. 

I prefer a flat brush to a round one for that kind of hand painting.

Last, until or if you buy an airbrush, don't ignore spray cans. Colors like those on your model all come in spray cans now.

 

Good luck, and keep at it.

 

Bill

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, July 8, 2019 11:15 AM

Two aspects of this problem, your brushes and your paint. Rob covered the paint pretty well, stirring and thickness. But the quality of your brushes is important as well. I get better luck with natural hair brushes compared to synthetic bristle brushes. Keeping the bristles slightly moistens with thinner or water, depending upon paint type, aids in the paint flow off of the brush and reduces streaking, brush marks, etc.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2011
  • From: Stevens Point, Wisconsin, USA
Posted by Tom Hering on Monday, July 8, 2019 1:14 PM

A trick I sometimes use if I'm in a hurry, and don't want to wait for a coat of acrylic or enamel paint to fully cure (not just dry), is to spray on some Testors Dullcote from a rattle can. It's a fast-curing laquer that creates a barrier, preventing the solvents in the second coat of paint from softening and lifting the first coat of paint. However, I've only used this trick on small parts - never on large areas. It's always best to let each coat of paint fully cure.

"A little more persistence, a little more effort, and what seemed hopeless failure may turn to glorious success" - Elbert Hubbard

"Perfect is the enemy of good" - attributed to Voltaire

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, July 8, 2019 1:43 PM

Interesting tip. If you are using any kind of sticky mask, full cure is important.

At the risk of repeating my blather,

 

Morrisons Second law of Modeling- There's never enough time to do it right, but somehow there's always enough time to do it over.

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, July 8, 2019 8:51 PM

Robert, I am needing to ask, what type of paint, enamel or acrylic, and brand of paint, were you using here? Each paint type and brand can have their own property characteristics. Tamiya paints can be exceptionally challenging to hand brush. 

Another question is how much time are you allowing for the base coat to dry before applying the next coat? I would venture very little. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2019
Posted by Robert631 on Monday, July 8, 2019 9:15 PM
Sorry for the late reply, Im using acrylic paint and im giving it about 15 minutes in between each coat. I applied about 4 coats and ive noticed that the small details on the plane (rivets and bolts etc) get covered by the paint and isnt very visible anymore so i mixed burnt umber and lamp black oil paint together with thinner and painted the lines on the plane, the details are a bit more visible now but i think ive put down too much dark oil paint and the whole model is kinda ruined ive got another model, an airfix mitsubishi zero. gonna give it another shot
  • Member since
    April 2015
Posted by Mopar Madness on Monday, July 8, 2019 9:16 PM

Multiple light coats always works best for me, especially with an acrylic paint. Practice first on a plastic cup or something disposable. I‘ve painted many plastic Coke bottles while refining various techniques! 

Chad

God, Family, Models...

At the plate: 1/48 Airfix Ju87 B2 Stuka

On deck: 

In the hole: 

  • Member since
    July 2019
Posted by Robert631 on Monday, July 8, 2019 9:22 PM

These were taken after i applied the oil and varnish

not sure how long i should let the oil paint sit before rubbing it off to make the small details show, either the oil wasnt thinned enough or i waited too long and the oil had already dried? or i applied too much oil

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, July 8, 2019 9:55 PM

Robert631
Sorry for the late reply, Im using acrylic paint and im giving it about 15 minutes in between each coat. I applied about 4 coats and ive noticed that the small details on the plane (rivets and bolts etc) get covered by the paint and isnt very visible anymore so i mixed burnt umber and lamp black oil paint together with thinner and painted the lines on the plane, the details are a bit more visible now but i think ive put down too much dark oil paint and the whole model is kinda ruined ive got another model, an airfix mitsubishi zero. gonna give it another shot
 

 

 

 

15 minutes between coats is minimal. It barely gives time for the paints to surface dry, and absolutely no time to cure. The carriers in the top coats are activating the lower coats and that’s one reason for the revelation of the base. You have to allow more time between coats. You can reduce the time with acrylic paints if you use something like a hairdryer on low heat, but even then, you will need to practice on a test mule before you try it on a serious project. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2019
Posted by Robert631 on Monday, July 8, 2019 10:03 PM
Ok, ill give it 1-2 hours and see if it gets better, thanks for the tips
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Monday, July 8, 2019 10:09 PM

Robert631
Ok, ill give it 1-2 hours and see if it gets better, thanks for the tips
 

99% of the time, time is your friend in this hobby. Don’t rush things. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 12:37 AM

GMorrison

 

Morrisons Second law of Modeling- There's never enough time to do it right, but somehow there's always enough time to do it over.

 

What that jerk said...

There's an idea that you can brush out stroke marks. You can't on a plastic model.

The primary concern to a good paint job is to get thin coats. That's what airbrushes do.

If you paint with a good brush, as Stik suggested, and do thin coats; overall opaque coverage will come second to not creating brush marks.

Everyone does this. About every other paint application- paint is the great mistake hidden tool.

It's the opposite in modeling.

Build clean. Learn those basic skills. Alignment, no glue visible, sand or scrape off lumps.

Prime.

Paint in stages. Acrylics dry from the outside in, like mayonaisse that sat out all day. Break the crust and it's glop underneath.

Enamels dry from the inside out. Once it doesn't take a fingerprint, it's pretty much there. But that's a bad test.

Give it time man. 15 minutes is nothing, maybe time enough to feed the dog and they tend to hurry along that process.

I give acrylic a number of days as I said earlier. And only if the coat was thin to begin with.

Artist oils, they take months to dry.

Oh and when masking, pull up of paint has nada, nunche, nothing to do with the cure or "dryness" of the top layer. It's all about how you allowed the primer on the plastic to cure.

Can I just say that you model isn't looking as good as you can make it?

It will need to be stripped and repainted and you will be happy with yourself when you do so.

Bill

  • Member since
    July 2019
Posted by Robert631 on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 8:43 AM
ill keep all of that in mind as i get started on the next model. thanks for all the tips! i guess this was a good thread to show what not to do
  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 10:21 AM

Robert631
ill keep all of that in mind as i get started on the next model. thanks for all the tips! i guess this was a good thread to show what not to do

Where are you located? A place called Harbor Freight sells an inexpensive airbrush for hobbyists. I'm not sure about the availability of the canned air that Testors sells. Hobby Lobby and other model shops may still carry it. Compressors can be pricey, but if you use a 40% off coupon at Hobby Lobby, it might be reasonably priced to you.

I wouldn't worry about airbrushing right now though. Work on your basics of construction and hand painting. Armor models are often more forgiving when hand painted since actual tanks were hand painted for generations. Well, the base coat was factory applied, but subsequent camouflage patterns were added by hand by 18-20 year old soldiers who would rather be doing something else.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 10:29 AM

And I suggest spray cans.

Canned air has a problem. After using it for more than a couple of seconds, it starts to get very cold. That can be a problem with some paints. And it will add up.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 10:54 AM

GMorrison

And I suggest spray cans.

Canned air has a problem. After using it for more than a couple of seconds, it starts to get very cold. That can be a problem with some paints. And it will add up.

 

Put the can in a sauce pan or other container of lukewarm water, like an old cool whip container. Size depends on the heighth of the can. It keeps the can from getting frost on the outside.

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 12:01 PM

Yeah, definitely thin your paints, if you want to apply them by hand.  It took me a while to learn that, via trial and error.  I got used to thinning my paints, when I began to use my airbrush.

I paint mostly with acrylics, from water-based paints like Andrea, Vallejo, and the craft store brands, to alcohol-based Tamiya acrylics.  Thinning the paint lets me lay down coats as thin as if I had sprayed them.

Same goes for enamels, and for oils.  Thinning makes it easier to get thin, smooth coats brushing by hand.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 12:07 PM

I would suggest stripping the paint off the current model and trying the techniques everyone has mentioned before you start painting the next kit.

You can use an amonia based glass cleaner, purple cleaner, brake fluid, oven cleaner.  All will strip the paint without hurting the plastic.  Wash well and let dry after.  

Demoting to a test mule will improve your techniques, and you will end up with something you are happier with in the long run.  Don't hurry, use this whole thing as a learning experience and enjoy.  We have all been there, believe me.

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 12:07 PM

And as the others have said, the time between coats has an impact.

Acrylics dry relatively quickly, and that lets you apply multiple coats in a short time.  Enamels take longer, and oils even longer.  Figure painters who use oils often make themselves a drying box-a 60-watt lamp is popular as a heat source.  But the oil paint's slow drying time is an advantage in that case, because it gives the painter time to adjust and blend colors, especially along lines of shade.  If you're using oils to weather, then you don't need much paint at all, and the paint should dry faster.

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    July 2019
Posted by Robert631 on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 12:19 PM
im in daytona beach florida, and there is a harbor freight tools nearby. ill check it out. ill also make a trip to hobby lobby for some spray cans and see what i can find. thanks again
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 12:43 PM

Robert631
im in daytona beach florida, and there is a harbor freight tools nearby. ill check it out. ill also make a trip to hobby lobby for some spray cans and see what i can find. thanks again
 

another option for an air source for an airbrush is the compresssed air bottles for soda dispensers. They can be refilled with co2. 

What brand of acrylics paints are you using?

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July 2019
Posted by Robert631 on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 1:23 PM
mostly Artskills acrylic. sams club were selling a whole bunch of them for cheap.
  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 1:54 PM

Robert631
mostly Artskills acrylic. sams club were selling a whole bunch of them for cheap.
 

Ok, that’s a brand that I’ve never used, so I can’t offer up any hints or tips for better performance. 

I would suggest that you try some different model oriented brands and see which you may prefer. If there is a Hobby Lobby near you, you can pick up some sets for a good price with their 40% off coupon.

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 1:59 PM

I see, that explains everything.

I would never criticize anyone for choices made to save money, and I will not do so. In fact, with a little experimentation, you might get that artists paint to work. I've used paint like that (Liquitex) on war game figures before.

But here, it's fighting you and causing the problems. It's made to be very gel-like, and usually in fine art brush marks are ok, even desirable. On a model, not so much, right?

Whether or not you invest in an airbrush, familiarize yourself with quality model paint.

The little Testors square bottles of enamel are really great. They thin out well and hand brush just fine.

Hope that helps.

BTW it's good you posted this. Hopefully you'll take a leap in results and like what you create.

 

Bill

  • Member since
    June 2014
  • From: New Braunfels , Texas
Posted by Tanker - Builder on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 2:48 PM

Robert631;

 Are you painting with oils? Sure looks that way . My advice DON'T ! You can even use craft acrylics and get a better finish.Plus there's an abundance of colors if you choose not to mix your own color. I refuse to use Acrylics because I do a lot of brush painting and I don't like have to mess with the thinning and such . I prefer enamels ( Oil Based ) but they seem to be getting harder to find in a good color range .T.B.

  • Member since
    September 2017
  • From: Roanoke Virginia
Posted by Strongeagle on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 3:24 PM

Ahoy Robert.  Watch this video and you'll never need an airbrush.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BitmaECqO30

This guy has got skills.

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 3:51 PM

Wide flat quality brush

Lots of thinner.

Thin coats, almost translucent.

High quality paint.

  • Member since
    December 2018
Posted by Ted4321 on Tuesday, July 9, 2019 5:35 PM

Robert, 

If you're getting antsy and want to "keep doing stuff" but don't want to sit and wait for paint to dry, start another model.  I have 2 builds going right now.  One more complex, and another "side" project to keep my hands off the more complex model until it's cured/dried.

Idle hands are the devil's workshop. 

T e d

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