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Very Interesting! More on The Ore Boat.

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  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Very Interesting! More on The Ore Boat.
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Thursday, August 11, 2022 4:12 PM

Well! Still no pics.

            This month is starting out another disaster! Nothing model related, But enough to ruin my mindset! So seeking a respite from all of it, I tried something new. I got my scale rule out for H.O.Scale. Then I proceeded to measure the crew members for the H.O. scale Laker! Did you know they actually vary in heighth? I wasn't sure so I figured I would find out!

            I measured twelve individuals from three manufacturers. The Fellows standing straight very in heighth from a scale 5'5" to 6'6" !! really!! Talk about realism. At least they are all pre-Painted ! Now, if you're wondering. They should average the heighth that when seen through a window, They will be visible from the armpits up. At a Porthole at least the Full head should be visible! The measurements given in the instructions taking in mind the alteration to the patterns to correct them, works out perfect! NO, there were no women on them that I know of at that time!

         I hope to get you photos soon. Well, you aren't going to miss much! I am still gathering parts and making gross adjustments to the Model to build it right! But I learned a long time ago. In 1/35-1/32 and 1/87, that figures will bring even the worst model to life. This is going to be evident in all three, the two Tugs and the Freighter. One of the things that wouldn't have shown up clearly is the camber of the deck and the terribly pronounced curve at the deck edge. I have had to add a strip 1/16"x1/64" then a Quarter round to it after Cutting that curve down to allow the deck to fit like the instructions state.

         The rear of the Fore deck, at the main deck, aft bulkhead, both sides was a full 1/4" From hull to inner Bulkhead, shorter than the port and hatch pattern for it. So I had to add a 1/8" and then cut it down to match. Trying to make a ship that fits in two eras would result in the problems. Then, if you are trying to make it work you fudge. So, I am at the point that photos will tell the story, but I will have to tint the plastic for you to see the work. There is 6' of nothing but white and two colors of putty in places. She's not quite photogenic yet! Oh! and lots of Rectangular holes(Open Hatches!).

         The photos, Hopefully will start with the explanation of how the Taconite loads are situated. Then the building of the very slightly tapered boxes to hold them. Remember I am using slightly sanded Coal Gondola Rail Road loads to fill in for Taconite! The rectangles will have a taper that is not really noticeable to the camera or the eye when installed. There is that much shadow. Plus remember they aren't loaded that deep, They are fresh water vessels.

         I will keep you posted!

  • Member since
    May 2022
Posted by Eugene Rowe on Thursday, August 11, 2022 4:51 PM

I am not real tech savvy but if you go to post images com ,you can upload pictures from your phone and share your photos with links for forums.Really easy to use;!

  • Member since
    May 2022
Posted by Eugene Rowe on Thursday, August 11, 2022 4:53 PM

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, August 12, 2022 8:25 AM

Well!

 If'n I say so meself! one nice Bird! Looking Good my Friend. I just love that in daylight you got the colors to fall into line. She looks squadron Ops ready!

  • Member since
    August 2021
Posted by lurch on Friday, August 12, 2022 9:46 AM

Great aircraft Eugene. Looksfantastic.

  • Member since
    March 2022
  • From: Twin cities, MN
Posted by missileman2000 on Friday, August 12, 2022 2:54 PM

Although I have built half a dozen lakers, I have never left a hatch open (I build using the bread an butter method- it's a bi harder to do with that construction).  However, I do plan on doing so in the future.  Don't know if you'd call it a diorama or a vinette, but I want to build one loading at the Superior docks.  I have a book on those, with complete scale drawings.  Haven't decided on the period yet, so don't know if it will be loading hematite or taconite.

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Friday, August 12, 2022 4:50 PM

Hi!

           Using the bread and butter method works if you don't want to get into the Interiors. For R.C. and others this is not the best way to go. The beauty of a Laker? They are basically elongated boxes, with partitions Creating the Cargos holds. Pointy, Well, almost, on one end and rounded on the other, form followed function. The Engines and  Engineers and Galley aft, and the Officers and Bridge and Radio crew forward.

             I am not sure where passengers were carried, but they did have a few Passenger cabins, Whether fore or aft I do not know. They have just kept getting bigger except there are waterways that limit the sizes they can reach, Various types of loading and unloading have been devised. If you notice they seem to float On, not In the water. At the bows when going to load they remind me of very light wood toy boats! You can actually see the Bilge curve. Not so in a "Saltie" unless in Ballast! "Saltie: A term given to identify ships that traverse the various northeastern waterways to make their way to the Great Lakes from the Atlantic ocean.

 What suprises me, is this .The history and nature of the type seems to have been successfully kept to the north. I can find Virtually nothing such as photos and drawings in Libraries this far south. It's like they don't exist. I have quiried Museums and Libraries and Have gotten NO viable information. Much less any co-operation. My client belongs to a group of H.O Train modelers building ports and settings concerning the Steel Mills and their hardware in use till their late decline. They hope to preserve the history in miniature. Surprisingly, this group has members in Indiana. Not necessarily the northern part either! 

  • Member since
    May 2022
Posted by Eugene Rowe on Friday, August 12, 2022 5:26 PM

Thanks!

  • Member since
    February 2021
Posted by MJY65 on Friday, August 12, 2022 7:21 PM

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your use of the coal.   If you are trying to simulate taconite, some fine lead shot would be best.  Real taconite pellets are grayish black and the size and shape of slightly irregular marbles.   I grew up on the Iron Range and we used to use the pellets for slingshot ammo.  

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Saturday, August 13, 2022 8:36 AM

Yeah!

         I was partly raised in Buffalo,N.Y. so same here. Remember the cargo will be Barely visible. The taconite would be finer in H.O.Scale than the period at the end of this sentence. We were exposed to them Here, by some fluke? Some months through last year. We were finding the pellets all over our trackside Sidewalks after a train went through in the Night!

        The other Museum Staff and members couldn't figure out what they were. Being, as a child I had used them for slingshot ammo, I immediately knew what they were. In the ship, what I am going for is the general appearance from a distance. The ship will have those big unloader arms over it so it's going the be a busy scene.

          Chances of using the material you suggest would be to big. So, next best thing. Coal loads sanded slightly. Tricking the eye to see taconite and not coal! Fine lead shot, and yes, I used to hunt Quail, is still too big. Thanks for the suggestion. In the Partial model I spoke about in a different post, would be the place for that because the ship then would be 1/96 (R.C.Scale) and perfect for the shot!

          Oh, one more thing, the shot would be too heavy for the thin walls of the hull. This is one thing I have had to watch carefully, just in assembly. She wants to "Hog"!

  • Member since
    March 2022
  • From: Twin cities, MN
Posted by missileman2000 on Saturday, August 13, 2022 9:00 AM

Tanker-Builder

Hi!

           Using the bread and butter method works if you don't want to get into the Interiors. For R.C. and others this is not the best way to go. The beauty of a Laker? They are basically elongated boxes, with partitions Creating the Cargos holds. Pointy, Well, almost, on one end and rounded on the other, form followed function. The Engines and  Engineers and Galley aft, and the Officers and Bridge and Radio crew forward.

             I am not sure where passengers were carried, but they did have a few Passenger cabins, Whether fore or aft I do not know. They have just kept getting bigger except there are waterways that limit the sizes they can reach, Various types of loading and unloading have been devised. If you notice they seem to float On, not In the water. At the bows when going to load they remind me of very light wood toy boats! You can actually see the Bilge curve. Not so in a "Saltie" unless in Ballast! "Saltie: A term given to identify ships that traverse the various northeastern waterways to make their way to the Great Lakes from the Atlantic ocean.

 What suprises me, is this .The history and nature of the type seems to have been successfully kept to the north. I can find Virtually nothing such as photos and drawings in Libraries this far south. It's like they don't exist. I have quiried Museums and Libraries and Have gotten NO viable information. Much less any co-operation. My client belongs to a group of H.O Train modelers building ports and settings concerning the Steel Mills and their hardware in use till their late decline. They hope to preserve the history in miniature. Surprisingly, this group has members in Indiana. Not necessarily the northern part either! 

 

As far as pointiness goes, there is a scientific reason the bow is less pointy than in the past. As the ships get bigger and bigger, the bow shape gets less important, so the bow could even be a simi-circle without requiring bigger engine. On the older ships there were suites on both fore and rear deckhouses.  Since the foredeck structure has been virtually eliminated, now these cabins are all in stern deckhouse.

I wonder if it was really true that laker design kept to the lakes.  The big feature of lakers was no midship deckhouses, to get unobstructed access to cargo holds.  There were some ocean going vessels that did adopt this style, until both lakers and salties adopted the aft-only deck structures.  BTW, I  think the Clyde steamers called rabbits predated either lakers or salties with aft-only deck structures..

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Saturday, August 13, 2022 1:42 PM

Hi!

       You know, you could be correct. As the years went by they always searched for the most efficient way of carrying as much cargo as possible. Cram as much cargo in a space that could be unloaded and loaded faster. When stick Ships ruled it was a long drawn out process! I think some layouts tried to accomodate more Passengers to offset losses in Cargo shipments. Then there was, as has been pointed out a design furor to create a climate to enlarge ships for their purpose. Look at how big some of the Liquid carriers got and then Container Ships!

       I would imagine at their heyday the Lakers carried more cargo than Salties in a specific month, or year. They were and still are limited by the canals and waterways that allow movement from the Atlantic to the Lakes. Now, That Said, I am sure some Lakers did make voyages on the ocean. I have just not read of any cases of that! In that consideration, look at how many Missouri and Missippi River steamers traveled around the End of South America from Savannah, and other Eastern Ports to take Forty Niners to California during the heighth of th Gold Rush! 

      DeckHouse Aft? I think the early Clyde "Puffers" led the way to prove this profile! They certainly outlasted some other designs!

  • Member since
    February 2021
Posted by MJY65 on Saturday, August 13, 2022 2:32 PM

Tanker-Builder
The taconite would be finer in H.O.Scale than the period at the end of this sentence.

 

Oh boy.  I missed a decimal and my math was WAY off.  Even #12 shot would be 10x too large for scale.  

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Sunday, August 14, 2022 7:47 AM

Hey!MJY65;

        Don't worry about it! I thought the same thing. So I got some out of my reload material and nope! It was to large.

  • Member since
    March 2022
  • From: Twin cities, MN
Posted by missileman2000 on Sunday, August 14, 2022 8:23 AM

Hey, TB, can you convince the customer that a special mill requires a load of hematite?  I think they still ship some hematite, don't they?  Red iron oxide is readily available in several forms, like jeweler's rouge.

 

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Sunday, August 14, 2022 11:27 AM

Believe Me`

     I tried to change his mind, but, No go!

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