cost of the hobby

Yep I do agree with J-Hulk. Shopping for model kits is part of the fun. Well, Fabio we're in the same boat. Here in Malaysia the exchange rate is $1.00 to RM3.80. I've seen Tamiya Dragon Tank Transporter cost more than RM 600. Picture the figure in dollars, you'll get the picture.

damn dude u dont need that much shit. since i can afford only 13$ 70's piece-o-shit models u leard to detail yourself.

Cost is relative I think. We will pay unmindfully for whatever makes us happy, regardless of the price. And thats the way it should be. Considering the amount of satisfaction and enjoyment we get from this hobby (the key word being hobby, an indulgence, something that we do not need to survive, an activity to while away hours of leisure time) each of you still goes out and buys more kits to add to those still sitting in boxes waiting to be built. Lets face it, we are plastic ravens. Fascinated with anything that catches our eye and will seemingly feed that need for our own personal indulgence.

Griping about the cost of a kit is only a justification for when we feel guilty that the $100 for the kit should have gone to fix the lawnmower, paint the house etc. "I can't belive I went to buy this new plane kit and it cost me umpteen dollars..." As bad as the hobby may get economicly, I don't think that to date a hobbystore owner or internet mail order house has shoved a large caliber gun in your eye and emptied your pockets (despite popular belief of the industry...) to pay for it. And you still bought it! We come up with the money when we need to get our cars fixed, find it to go to a concert or movie. We work for our money and spend where we are most happy or find the most satisfaction. Sure there is always a gripe, but ultimately you must ask, are you happy? Does your indulgence make you happy? Do you like what you do? Are you satisfied?

I find it hard to sympathize with guys that gripe about cost and yet pridefully point at the "kit horde" in their closet. (Myself included)

Do you know of anyone in this hobby that has taken a step back and said "Oh my god, I've wasted my life building kits!" ?

Enjoy it now, work to live, don't live to work. Have fun with your hard earned cash. Spend it where it makes you happiest, because you won't have it for long and you can't take it with you.

Pricing is a victim of its time. Separate start up costs from just about any other leisure activity or hobby and I think you'll find a comparative gripe with alot of folks out there.

Mike

Plastic is not the only expensive hobby, My wife got a very nice bonus recently and bought me a traxxas t-maxx r/c truck. to make this short, 1 t-maxx 40 mph plus one inmovable object hit at full throttle = cost of about 4 revell glue kits + father in law now has upper hand in the " I can't beleive you hit that" contest. was a humbling experiance and fun right up to " oh $%^^% where did that truck come from"

Beleive me, I know what you mean about the cost. But my biggest thrill of the day is when I walk into my office/model room, and look at my work and I realize as I take a closer look that was pretty darn good work. Money well spent.

QUOTE: Originally posted by renarts Hey Tenchi, I'm glad you're part of that younger minority that has a clue and one day I'd love to discuss revisionist history with you, but they just rang the dinner bell down at the retirement home and me and the rest of the residents gotta eat our porridge, if we're late we'll miss out on the jello........ ;-)

Well, if you ever wanna discuss something, my hotmail account is MattMeyr@hotmail.com or my MSN Instant Messenger account is TenchiMuyo86@hotmail.com
Other than that, don't bother trying not to miss the jello, it's the green color tonight! And hey, save the caramel pudding for me! And you can have my porridge, I'll stick to grits or starve!

I try to bargain shop. Buy boxes of figures on sale and learn how to use natural stuff (like dirt and packaging styrofoam) in dioramas. Yes it is expensive and getting more so. But don't settle for retail. It took 2 months, but I picked up the 350 scale Enterprise new in box for $100 instead of the onsale price at the hobby store of $170

I like to think of the offset value of all that plastic 'loft insulation' which means I'm saving loads on my heating bills!

I suppose it comes down to how much you want to put into the finished product. I know that I buy a lot of kits that definitely don't merit an etched metal detail set, as the kit detail is so limited that it's just a waste.

On the other hand I do find myself increasingly reliant on after market decals to acheive an acceptable and often unique model.

Yeah I always liked the radial engine airplanes. I have a Curtis-Wright Demon that I want to build and a Wildcatfish to kitbash. Try Engines & Things, for really nice resin radial engines! Best regards Woody

QUOTE: Originally posted by Woody Hi dans1120, What do you like to build?

Just about anything with a prop! Especially radial engined aircraft like wildcats and texans.

Hi dans1120, What do you like to build?

Right on, Tenchi!

I'm 19 and I'm getting back into building models.

I've been seeing more and more people my age that are getting into model building with those gundam things, and as always, cars cars cars.

Those aren't my thing, but it's good to see that the hobby lives on

This has been a very interesting thread! I hadn't really even considered the cost of supplies and aftermarket parts. I do not agree that this hobby can be compared to video and card games though. I am guilty of playing video games on my PS2 and the games range between 20 - 50 dollars. The problem is that I can play the games again and again or go to Babbages and trade it off for something new. The 50 dollars for the game sounds like a bargain to the teen compared to the 150 to build a nice kit on the cheap! I think the proof in where this hobby is going lies in where they are sold. The sales outlets are becoming specialized as in mail order or if you are lucky enough a hobby shop. The time of Monograms at K-mart and other retailers like them has come and gone. The big stores that still do carry kits have a dismal selection. I guess I'm the only one who remembers the whole row of kits at the local stores. I think the point is that the hobby is shrinking and going to the more dedicated modeller. I predict this hobby in real trouble as the 30 year olds on up leave the hobby. As a final thought, I don't think scale modelling will ever disapear all together. Best regards Woody

Something that caught my attention: "Unfortunately, most kids today don't have the attention span necessary to produce even a halfway decent model. They're all too used to immediate gratification."

Honestly, I'm not too sure about this one. There is a certain amount of 'Instant Gratification', and 'Let someone do It for Me' attitude in youngsters nowadays, granted, but I think there always was. When I was 8 and starting with this hobby, I wanted that first model to be done in 5 minutes. Probably did it in 7 minutes! Impatience is part of being a kid, I think. We learn patience, and in my case, I'm not sure I have much of it, so I still build many models at the same time.

I do not believe that cost is an issue either. Granted there are kits out there that are way too expensive, some I find outrageously expensive still now. Let's face it, parents pay for the first modeling bills, not the kids. In today's world when I see kids/parents spending $100 or more on branded trainers, or even half that on a single computer game, I can not imagine the price of a Revell, a Monogram, a AMT, an Airfix kit being a problem. Again, as you grow up, you come into contact with more expensive models, because you visit dedicated model shops and shows. Most kids are facing the cheaper kits in WalMarts and Woolworth shops.

The hobby is not dying. It's never been so well. We've never had it so good. A minority of kids will get involved into this hobby, regardless of the prices, or anything else, because we are in it. Sons and daughters will try it out, most will fall out of it but some will stay and get really good at it. Nothing will change there. I started because my Dad was into modeling.

The modelers we have become are a minority, in great part catered by specialist press (such as FSM), specialist manufacturers (Verlinden and Co, garage companies). After all, isn't the biggest model manufacturer, Revell, owned by what is basicaly a toy company, Binney & Smith, the creators of Crayola?

Model building is great recovery therapy. I got back in to it years ago for that very reason.It helped with my motor skills,dextarity, and most of all PATIENTS. I am glad to here of your investments in the future Mike.Maybe we should do more ourselves.Right now I have two small investments running around my house and they love the hobby.However their attention spans are limited to about 15 minutes (5 and 7 years old) .They have a ways to go until their masters.

Tenchi...your wise beyond your years. Stay focused young padwan and you will go far..........


Have fun all...................

James,
Thanks. We went and picked up a car, a plane and I got some more armor. That afternoon the kid that works for me and his brother sat down and we went over directions and had an impromptu session. I loaned them some extra tools they were missing and they both dug in. I think they're both hooked considering that now my employee wants to tag along on the next hobby shop sojurn. The cool thing is the kid thats hurt needs something that can help him with his dexterity. To get back some of that motor response he lost. This is perfect.

The cost to me was a few extra bucks, and some time. THe pay off is that at least two young adults (19 & 21) now have a new hobby that seems to grab their interest and slow that "immediate gratification" monkey down. Maybe I've made a couple of converts. I'll admit that the desire has to be there in the first place.

You guys are right, it is the swing of the pendulum and markets are cyclic. It may slow down but I think that the companies operating now know what to look for and how to survive.

Hey Tenchi, I'm glad you're part of that younger minority that has a clue and one day I'd love to discuss revisionist history with you, but they just rang the dinner bell down at the retirement home and me and the rest of the residents gotta eat our porridge, if we're late we'll miss out on the jello........ ;-)

Regards,
Mike

Fear Not! My retirement home comrades! I'm a modeler, and I'm a teen! It's a proud tradition in my family! My father makes models, my stepfather makes models, my grandfather made models(he's a little too old to be doing something as dexterity-involved as models now, sadly), and so forth and so on!

The problem isn't a loss of creativity, that much can be shown by the fact that people still enroll in West Point, teens still get excited by local Southern Pride/Anti-Racist rallies(I don't know if yankees have anything to be proud about[or if they ain't racist], but I'm sure they rally too!), the future is looking bright, if you ask me!(and yes, I can point out Iraq and Afghanistan[and even somalia] on a map.) Anyhoot, models ain't going away anytime soon.

I would say that we modelers are just as responsible for the lack of interest that is growing in model-making. When was the last time any of us invited people to make models? Submit models into a local fair? Howabout interesting our children in the hobby? Have any of us ever tried to hold a Model-Making rally in our local community? Models don't exist in a vacuum, and neither do children. They don't just wake up one day and say, "hey, I wonder what that piece of plastic that looks like an airplane is...". We need to instill a respect and joy for modeling in children, if we want them to find joy in it!

I hope I don't sound too conservative(I am a conservative, after all), but the children ARE our future. The toymakers are only so responsible. We need to look after our children, and give a damn about what they're doing. My parents did it to me, and I'll do it to my children. If we don't act now, revisionist history will do to models what it did to the South, villify and dilute its impact down to nothing!

I've been thinking about this for a few minutes and I have realized something. We all have a deep passion for the hobby. Quality
,afforability and preservation. We all want these things and sacrafice alot to get them .Its nice to see that their are others that feel as strongly about the hobby as myself and maybe it is this that will carry the hobby on down the road.who knows, maybe their will be a backlash on instant gratification and a renisance will occur.Not likly you say?do you remember the baseball card boom in the 90's?

Mike..No appology needed.I am not offended.Your point was valid.

P.S. You can find free finance reports on most companys that are traded on the markets through the wall street journal.I think you will find the information on the front page.Please let us know what you dig up............thanks again..............

Mike,

Definitly aircraft. Everybody identifies with aircraft however there was alot of coverage on the armour in Iraq. It is a coin toss.

Thanks,

James

James, I appologize if I rubbed your fur the wrong way, it was not my intent. Your position brought up some good points and it made me think, that's why I wanted Tamiyas Annual report, not to play "top this" but to see just what the company was doing. I like to research things and its part of my curious nature. Annual reports give up a great deal of information, they allow us to see the disparity, if any, between profit and loss. If there is an extremely wide margin then you're right...those greedy corporate mongers... but otherwise you see the health of the company. It will tell you if prices will go up or go down in the future. You can also see where the company is going. Where your money is going and it reveals a realistic picture of the industry as a whole. Besides if they're making that much of a profit, I want a shot at some stock if available. The time it takes to get such documents would have put it past this discussions lifespan anyway.

I went back this afternoon and asked the kid that works for me why he wasn't into models. As I already knew, it was a sign of the times. Immediate gratification. No patience. I want it done for me, with as little work invested in it as possible. (Which is strange because he busts his rump in the shop) He pretty much said his friends felt the same way. But he did bring up a very valid point that you and others made. ....Cost. Not that its more expensive than anything else we do. Helk read the Aircraft forum, there is a guy who posted there and right out of the box he said this (model building) was cheaper than rebuilding motorcycles and he didn't have to pay for oil or gasoline.

The disparity comes not in buying the kits for $15-$50 a pop but in the start up costs. The paints, tools, glues, etc that are "perceived" to be an ongoing thing and expensive. Not real different if you think a playstation is $200-$300, A DVD player is $100+ etc.
The add ons which can sometimes cost as much as the kit. ($23 for a PzKmp IV, $23 for the Eduard Photo Etch detail) don't help either. (Define irony...a niche market within a niche market)

The key here is perception. This is niche market, and will never be anything more than a niche market. It will never go mainstream, the idea is to change the perception through the clubs, events, letters to major corporations explaining your blistered wallet and what can they do to help. (Oddly enough, sometimes they listen.) And most of all what we in the hobby teach and present to those on the edge and not yet interested.

Its also cyclicle. Look at how many of us, as well as those that are publishing and writing the books we read and buy have done. Read their profiles or blurbs in the frontpiece of their books, how many of you, left the hobby and got back in. Part of it was cost then as now. Before, your parents had an endless source of birthday and christmas presents (they bought your models) then we found other interests (girls, cars, college, highschool, the service) and other things to spend our hard earned money on. Some stayed and continued on but many went elsewhere. Then we grew up, had real jobs, had spare time, and the ability to buy our kits and equipment again. So we came back. And here we are. Our economy sucks. I think the last time we were in this shape we lost those companies like Aurora. They had nothing to carry them through. THey didn't want to make you pay for their survival, or they fell behind and couldn't compete with those that were willing to for your dollar. The result is some pretty slick kits out there. And some pretty rock solid companies.

I too enjoy this discussion and learned a great deal. Tomorrow I take the kid that works for me to a hobby shop. His brother just got out of the hospital recovering from an accident and I think we'll get him a comming home gift at the same trip to get him through his recovery. What do you think? Aircraft or armor? Talk about a captive audience...

Thanks,
Mike

WOW. That's all so true. I fear James Larson is right when he says manufacturers are changing with the times with the die-cast kits - I never really thought of it that way. Kids will quickly throw together a pre-painted, die-cast set of parts and proudly proclaim "Look, I built a model!"

That is a truly sobering thought to think that we could be the last generation of real modelers.

I'm truly depressed. Maybe building something will make me feel better. . .

QUOTE: Originally posted by renarts That's something I think we're losing, that simple, playful, imaginative quality in people and I fear that more than I fear the price of kits going up. Mike

I believe you have touched on the heart of the matter right there. Rising kit prices give us something to complain about but if you can get somebody excited about something, price will become immaterial. That is why the video game manufacturers, etc can get the young people to part with $50-$100 a pop for a video game or whatever because they have HUGE marketing departments that make these things LOOK exciting and "cool" or whatever. When was the last time you saw an ad on tv showing how fun it is to build plastic models? When have you EVER seen an ad like that on tv. I sometimes think that the kit manufacturers could learn a few things about marketing from some of these video game and toy companies.

Ray

Well Mike I Idid get paid for the work I did how ever it was minimum wage and if you are trying to get tamiyas annual report to prove your point then YOU WIN! Their is no need to go that far! If you guys want to pay the money for the kit then that is your right. I agree that the hobby companys need to survive and profit.After all the more companys their the better off the hobby will be.But is the hobby dying?Is it because of high prices?(or) How do we attract the youngsters back to the hobby? I am simply trying to find other options. .In the past the prices were low.everyone remembers that $1.50(or less in some cases).Companys like Hawk,Aroura,lindberg,pyro,and revell ruled the land and times were good.Things were great then but times have changed.The fact is that I fear that we maybe the last generation of true builders.We have to compete with all of todays toys and gadgits.In order to do that the manufactures will change to survive.We are allready seeing this take place (die cast metal kits).will the companys change to meet OUR needs for a fare price in the future? My focus is on the future and protecting the hobby for my childeren and others.My wish is Someday the childeren of tommorow will return to the hobby much the same way we did. I just hope the hobby will be there for them.I see lower prices as one of the options to keeping interest in the hobby.I also am entitled to my own opinion and to share it with those who share theres.Even if we do not agree.The debate is good for us all.You guys can keep paying the high prices if you want.I will (choke)have to pay them too.However I will not stop looking at other options.I have enjoyed this debate and have listened to the voices of reason.....

Thanks guys...have fun............

I started thinking about the imagination factor and the stimulation of the creative process. How many of you catch yourself making your plane do a dive on the way to the shelf, or made a quiet engine noise while moving that tank to the drying cabinet. The sound of motors turning that turret or the almost inaudible, under the breath boom of a gun or cannon. When you site down the barrel of an artillery piece are you looking at it as a modeler or as a commander?

That's something I think we're losing, that simple, playful, imaginative quality in people and I fear that more than I fear the price of kits going up.

Mike

Mike is absolutely right. Unfortunately, most kids today don't have the attention span necessary to produce even a halfway decent model. They're all too used to immediate gratification.

"What? Now I've gotta wait for the paint to dry? Forget that!!"

Mike. You nailed it right on the head. I agree with you 99%. I never agree with anyone 100%.

Well said Mike.
Lee

Woody,
I agree, its a very sad situation. But I think society is changing. Young kids want Magic Cards, Digimon and video games, teenagers want video games, electronics, and thumpers for their rice rockets. Static items like models don't hold the attention for them that we enjoy. Its a "do something to impress me and my friends" now. Anyone that is brought in to the hobby is cultivated not just left to their own devices. In 10 years I'm sure we will be having this same discussion. Prices will only go up.

Watch toy manufacturers and the evolution of their product lines. More high tech, chip based, interactive, electronic driven toys. How many static or inanimate "imagination driven" toys do you see kids playing with now? The T.V. and DVD player have become the babysitter, and although comparatively priced to kits, for some reason it is tech winning out over imagination. Little do they know the mindless, drooling idiots they are making by plopping their kids in front of the t.v. turning their lives into 30 minute and 1 hour increments. Give them a model to build and it would stimulate their creative centers, make them research or read a book, develop manual dexterity, problem solving, making synapsis work harder. Stimulating learning and motor skills at the same time.

I don't think price has anything to do with it. Society has created its own demise. I know college students that couldn't tell you who fought in the war of Northern Agression (the civil war for you yankees) or could point out Afghanistan or Iraq on a map. What makes you think young kids could do it any better? The onus is on the kit manufacturers to develop a marketing program to change the paradigm and public perception and work to that end. Use some of that money to expand markets. Chapters of IPMS and other organizations can get the word out and show off more of their stuff to create the path for those interested to take it. Sort of a guerilla marketing campaign.

The expense is a lame excuse (no offense to you) because these same kids will spend $50 for a video game they'll master in an evening , $20 for a c.d. they'll play once, $15 for a deck of cards that they'll drop another $15 to buy booster packs for, $8. for a skating magazine for one article. $6 for movie popcorn, etc. ad nauseum. The kid that works for me has a stereo system in his car that is worth more than what I paid for my car. I think we spend the money we want, on what we want.

Mike

I just hope someone is buying these over priced kits for kids. In 20 years this will be a moot topic if the younger generation is not brought back into the hobby! I asked some of the young guys where I work if they enjoy building plastic models. The answer from several was that nobody built them anymore! Reason kit prices are too high, doesn't matter. The final outcome may be sad for all. All the points about overhead are valid but if these were plastic tumblers that rely on the same manufacturing process as plastic kits you could buy them at the dollar store for a buck. [:0]