Hey! Where'd the Swastika go?

this same debate happend in a mag called flypast last year only it was about restored aircraft.the arguments for and against where the same as here.at the end of the day the swastika was on the aircraft.you might as well try to ban all german ww2 machine models as to leave this one detail off.by the way living in england, it was not until the early nineties after getting back into modelling that i realised that german aircraft had swastikas at all (and i started in about 1973-4)

After the horror the Nazis brought to the world one can understand why the Swastika, the most dominant image of Hitler's Germany, was banned in that nation post WW II. Often times models issued in Germany will have the Swastika decal in sections that must be placed together to make a Swastika. In this form it just looks like 4 little backwards Ls.

Despite the law, the Swastika is a common sight in Germany, I spent 2 months in Wiesbaden, Germany and on my several trips to Berlin and around the country I saw the Swastika on hundreds of cars and jackets of the youth (18-35 yrs old)of the country. Germany is a very open democracy now and the average German people allow others to have there own views no matter how far to the right or left of the spectrum those views might be. I imagine this tolerance of speech/expression is an effect of repressive Nazism. Even though breaking this law is tolerated I imagine a large company wouldn't want the press attention it could possibly draw from breaking it.

I can understand if the Germans and others do not allow the display of the swastika for political or commercial purposes, but again, it is historically accurate in the modeling field and really has no political intent.

I lived in Germany for nine years and went to many model shows all over the country the last four years or so. I left in November '97. The biggest show I attended was in Frankfurt and swastikas were accurately applied to almost all nazi era aircraft. Nobody really bothered about it. The next show they held in Frankfurt after I moved away, I was told by friends still there, was raided by the authorities. From what I understand, no one was arrested, but they confiscated any swastika items that vendors had for sale.

Pat

Nothing fixes a thing so intensely in the memory as the wish to forget it. Michel de Montaigne

While public representation of the Hakenkreuz is illegal, I don't know why it would be illegal for private use in a historical context. The understandable sensitivity of Germans, as well of the other European nations victimized by the Nazis, should not preclude truue representation of military equipment and other historical artifacts.

The swastika only took on any sort of evil conotation under the use of Hitler.

There are two variants of the swastika, usually refered to as "male" and "female" variants, the female variant has its arms pointing to the left and traditionaly signifies balance, harmony and tranquility. The male variant has its arms off to the right and traditionaly symbolizes progress, prosperity and forward thinking.

The Nazi swastika was a modified version of the "male" variant. Modified in that it is oriented to balance on a corner rater than have one of its sides paralel to the ground as is traditional.

In antiquity, many cultures around the world used it at various points in history and it was never evidenced to have been evil until Hitler got his hands on it.

Yes, its illegal in Germany and many other European lands, but put yourself in the position of living there at the time, this kind of symbology hits pretty close the bone for a lot of people even if it isn't illegal in their country.

I seem to remember a news story from the late 1980s that some software manufacturer got into a bit of trouble with German authorities because they created a series of clip art images that included a swastika and an image of hitler himself, both outlawed in Germany. It wasn't a big matter, but they had to eat a bit of crow and recall their package and re release it in a modified form for several European markets.

The swastika has a fascinating history, unfortunately a lunatic got his hand on it and damned it forever, it had no evil on it before him, but now it will only ever be remembered for evil things.

With the recent resurgence of the Nazi party in Germany and its possible ties to the new Government there I'm surprised that a lot more of this "Denazification" isn't going on!
MD

Thought I was done...

Here's another link on the subject:
Denazification @ Museum of Tolerance

This is just what I know on the subject....

From what I understand, Germany isn't the only country to have passed legislation making the swastika illegal.

Here's some interesting links/information if you're really interested in the German law.

IHR - How Dangerous is the Swastika?
...really good article...relevant to this discussion!

WorldMilitaria.com Notes On German Law §86 / §86a StGB
Under the German law the display of nazi symbols on public places is forbidden in general. However the display of such symbols is allowed for historic research matters. The only purpose of all articles and in particular any illustrations, which refer to the time of the III.Reich in Germany or which show the national emblem (insignia) of the III. Reich are only there for scientific study and research of the history of the German military and political systems and its members before 1945. The entry to WorldMilitaria.com is only permitted as indicated under this clause.

Criminal Code (Strafgesetzbuch, StGB)
Section 86 Dissemination of Means of Propaganda of Unconstitutional Organizations
Section 86a Use of Symbols of Unconstitutional Organizations

What you have to consider is the time period these laws were made. People were furious and filled with disgust at the crimes that were committed under Nazism. I don't think they were too concerned about historical preservation of Nazism at that point. Granted, some people may think their censorship/ban is extreme, but considering the circumstances and the strong feelings/emotions of the people immediately after the war - I don't think I'd expect anything less. Even though the world has changed and decades have passed, I don't think there would be much support to have the laws changed.

I'll end with this last link and excerpt...

Downfall of the Third Reich - German flags used after WW2
All Nazi flags and regalia were immediately abolished upon German's unconditional surrender (8 May 1945). Thereafter, it was a crime punishable under occupation regulations for Nazi flags to be displayed. German soldiers still serving under arms after the surrender, e.g. the military police, removed the Nazi eagle badge from their uniforms. "Denazification" was a key element in the Allies' occupation strategy, and the immediate banning of all Nazi regalia was one consequence.

You are partially right Col. Kurtz. The swastika is a Hindu symbol for good luck, however, it "rotates" in the opposite direction. I believe that the swastika has been taken off photographs because the internet sites are acessable to anyone including Germans. I believe that to keep it appropriate for all viewers the swastika's must be removed from the images.

Agreed! In the same line, why are Finnish svastikas not removed as well..? They fought alongside the Nazis for a while... Making things unlawful usualy push people to do those things.

hey, lets get one thing straight. The swastika was some aryan symbol in hinduism i think, so for that to be outlawed because of one use of it? please, if it was more common thean maybe people would find it easier to look at. or if they knew the true meaning of it. hey, if the allies lost the war would the star be outlawed? It's just a lot of events shaping it, and I can kinda see why, but I think leaving it out of everything is ignorant to history.

Because it's not a politically correct choice. It's the law. I participate in an internet game called WarBirds. They don't include the swastika on their german aircraft because of this. The Nazi experience is still a sensitive issue.

In order to sell models in Germany, manufacturers must remove evidence of the svastika. You'll probably find that the decal sheets that have svastikas on, have them close to the edge of the sheet so that they can easily be cut off if required.

But, even if this is rather stupid - why don't they also remove the hinomarus on japanese aircraft, then -, help is at hand from many aftermarket decal companies, who produce sheets with myriads of svastikas in all sizes and colours.

Well, in Germany, the Swastika is ellegal. For instance, games relesed on Pc featuring WW2 battels etc don't have the Swastikas in it, so that it can be sold in Germany. Or the German games are altered and the swastika is replaced with something else. Am not sure if this applies for Models over there, but i know it applies to games thats for sure, and possibly public displays etc.

So yeah, that could be half the reason why, but i do agree with you, that it shouldn't be removed, after all it is history, even tho it does represent some dark and sinister.

So yeah...

Laters