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Is this an ART?

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Is this an ART?
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 5, 2003 2:19 PM
Thanks for all the insight about girls and model building. I will show Megan what was said about the subject. And show her the few site links that got posted.
A student of mine told me a few weeks ago that his ART teacher didn't think that model building was an ART. I told the student that the art teacher should open her eyes to FSM Mag and some other mags that would give her a new look at what was done and what is being done today. Yes some just build out of the box with little skill and thats ok, But I think some of us take this to an ART. As an artist for over 40 years this is one more kind of ART to me. Let me know what you think.
Thanks Dale
  • Member since
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  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Tuesday, August 5, 2003 2:37 PM
If someone slaps a few scraps of metal together and puts it in an art gallery, people call it art. So actually it is in the eye of the builder or viewer. If you create something out of small plastic parts, into a scale replica of the real thing, then IMO you have created art.

There are too many people that look down on our hobby as building child like toys. A model shop just opened in our area. It would be the only model shop within 120 miles. The day it opened I went in to look around. The only thing there was RC aircraft, boats and RC components. I asked if they had any plastic models. He told me they were a serious model shop dedicated to the true model builder and if I wanted something plastic to go to a toy store. He added that they don't carry toys or useless non modeling equipment.

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 5, 2003 2:38 PM
Dale,
I whole-heartedly agree. Your student's art teacher should realize by now that art comes in many forms, whether in music, theatre, drawings, paint, poetry, or any other form. Model building is no exception. Just with any other form of art, you are taking several diverse mediums and combining them to make a unified object. If modeling is so easy, why do we require insight from each other, as well as offer classes on painting, sculpting, and other techniques? Why do they sell models in "Art Supply" stores? I am very proud of the time and effort that goes into building the few kits I have been fortunate enough to finish, and to that effect, consider each of them as a separate "work of art."

Just my humble opinion.

demono69
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by shermanfreak on Tuesday, August 5, 2003 2:42 PM
Is this an art ..... absolutely !!!!!!

If a person tries to capture the look of an object, be it a bowl of fruit, a mountain range, or an aircraft or tank in its environment. Does it matter what the medium used is. Does it have to be canvas and oil ? Does it have to be photography ? Or made out of clay ?

I think not.

I just have to look around these forums and I can see many artists who produce masterpiece after masterpiece.

Sure if you build a kit straight out of the box without any paint then I would consider it to be just building a kit, like putting together a complex puzzle.

But when the paint is applied, and the weathering and detailing takes place, look out Picasso !!!!!
Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
  • Member since
    January 2003
Posted by shermanfreak on Tuesday, August 5, 2003 3:51 PM
QUOTE: He told me they were a serious model shop dedicated to the true model builder and if I wanted something plastic to go to a toy store. He added that they don't carry toys or useless non modeling equipment.


I would drive the 120 miles before this guy ever saw a dime come out of my pocket. I don't care how bad I needed a bottle of glue or some other product ...... not a dime.

Sorry for breaking off topic Dale.
Happy Modelling and God Bless Robert
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: Strongsville, Ohio
Posted by gbritnell on Tuesday, August 5, 2003 4:02 PM
Is model building art? Being both an artist and a modeler I have run across this question many times. When you present this to the art community I think they feel that art is the creation of a mood or feeling through mediums that have been traditionally classed as art ( painting, sculpting, etc.) Living in the Cleveland area I see some sculptures that the city has on display that I would never consider as art but the people in the art community feel that they are so they're art. When we build a model we are taking a drawing, or a kit and creating a replica of a known object. As a modeler I quit worrying about calling my models art for the sake of being accepted by some other group.
If you are familiar with a gentleman named Gerald Wingrove who builds (models/replicas/miniatures) of some of the worlds classic cars you can see the talent and dedication to his craft when he creates these masterpieces. Is it art? When someone in the art community accepts it as art then it becomes art but I would like to call it craftsmanship. I'm happy with that word because as a craftsman we can build a replica from a kit or from scratch and the amount of time, talent, skill and dedication we put into rewards us with something that can be appreciated by our peers. (The modeling community) Along with plastic, which I have been building for almost 50 years I also build working models/replicas of steam and gas engines. A few years ago I was invited to a very classy car show to exhibit my working model automobile engines. The response I got from the people at the show was great. While at the show I met a gentleman who built bronze replicas of ferraris, lotus race cars and the like. He told me how he had come up with a process to make the bodies out of resin and then copperplate them to look like bronze. This way he could put greater detail into them and gain the benifits of lighter weight than having a solid bronze body. They were mounted on shapley bases that complimented the (models/replicas). The following year they held the show again and I wondered why I hadn't been asked to display. I was told that the "art" committee felt that my replicas/miniatures weren't art but the replica bronze cars were. Go figure! From that point on I didn't worry about it and accepted my accolades from people that could appreciate my talents because they had been there done that. No matter what your modeling skill is, enjoy doing the best you can and be proud to show others what you have accomplished. Remember we all started out with the Aurora model that we painted with a brush and put it on a shelf in our bedroom and were proud that we had built it.
George
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: East Bethel, MN
Posted by midnightprowler on Tuesday, August 5, 2003 4:43 PM
By all means this is a art. Whether you paint, write poetry, sing, buildmodels, you are being creative and expressing yourself, and THAT, my friends, is art.
Lee

Hi, I am Lee, I am a plastiholic.

Co. A, 682 Engineers, Ltchfield, MN, 1980-1986

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 1 Corinthians 15:51-54

Ask me about Speedway Decals

  • Member since
    June 2003
Posted by M1abramsRules on Tuesday, August 5, 2003 4:45 PM
Model building is definately an art. especially if you get a bad model, then you basically are sculpting it with puttyWink [;)]. seriously, what about all the people who scratchbuild? if its stright OOB, no paint, I can see that they wouldn't call it an art. but give it a simple paint job and it is. just MHO
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 5, 2003 5:05 PM
I have seen some scratchbuild sites over the years and they are all ARTIST in my mind. One site that comes to mind was a guy that made a spaceship using a drywall bucket. Now that was creative. If I find the site I'll send the link to the group. It is my hope that my students will start scratchbuilding soon, then get into resin, but not resin recasting. My students can draw well and I know that they can learn the skills of model building.

Thanks Dale

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 5, 2003 5:06 PM
As to if modeling is an art of not, that's not important. What's important is it's fun, allow us to learn history, and satisfy our hunger for aircrafts/cars...

Scale models are definately not toys! A child can never put together a museum worthy model. (don't argue with me here, by museum worthy model, I mean museum worthy model) Beside, the stuff we use aren't for children anyway...don't tell me knives, superglues, lacquer thinner are child stuff.

Maybe it's because everytime we go to the toy sections of let say...Walmart, there would always be a short shelf of model kits. They are all Revell, or Monogram... at first before I entered this hobby, I thought they are toys. But when I saw the first TAMIYA kit and HASEGAWA kit in a hobby shop, I immediately know this hobby is for serious adults! Just look at the price tags on those things!

Who cares what others think. They are missing out.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 5, 2003 7:33 PM
Look at the Iwo Jima memorial, It is a bronze sculpture (art) of a photograph (art) of the real event. A photo of the mem. is art, a small ceramic sculpture of the original is art, so, therefore, a model must be art as it is a sculpture. Sure the method of fabrication is different but the end result is the same, a peice of art commerating a real incident.
  • Member since
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  • From: Panama City, Florida, Hurricane Alley
Posted by berny13 on Tuesday, August 5, 2003 8:02 PM
Robert.

The incident with the so called model shop happened over two months ago. I have heard they are having serious finincial problems now. It looks like it want be there much longer.

Berny

 Phormer Phantom Phixer

On the bench

TF-102A Delta Dagger, 32nd FIS, 54-1370, 1/48 scale. Monogram Pro Modeler with C&H conversion.  

Revell F-4E Phantom II 33rd TFW, 58th TFS, 69-260, 1/32 scale. 

Tamiya F-4D Phantom II, 13th TFS, 66-8711, 1/32 scale.  F-4 Phantom Group Build. 

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: Rain USA, Vancouver WA
Posted by tigerman on Tuesday, August 5, 2003 8:21 PM
I couldn't paint a picture if a tried, but I can turn a bland piece of plastic into a piece of yesterday. Yes, it is art. Smile [:)]

   http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y269/wing_nut_5o/PANZERJAGERGB.jpg

 Eric 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 5, 2003 8:23 PM
I am reminded of the point in time when photography was first being taken seriously by some enthusiasts, and rejected by the "art community." Painters and engravers felt threatened by a device that could render a scene more accurately with the push of a button. They said at the time that the camera did the work, not the person. Perhaps models were rejected in their infancy by a person ignorant to the potential of the medium, and the status quo was maintained by those not willing to embrace something new, or take chances outside of what was deemed "acceptable" by the authors of the canon. In any case, the loss is with the patrons and spectators, who may never view the BEAUTIFUL MASTERPIECES OF ART that I have witnessed on this website and others. More's the pity.
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Zanesville, OH USA
Posted by coldwar68 on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 9:14 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by berny13

Robert.

The incident with the so called model shop happened over two months ago. I have heard they are having serious finincial problems now. It looks like it want be there much longer.


Not to wish ill on people, but I am not sad to hear that the "business" is in financial trouble. There are some people in the world that do not deserve to deal with people...they have no social graces. I hope that they learn from their failure.

Jerry

I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it. -Jack Handy

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Huntington, WV
Posted by Kugai on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 12:05 PM
Is building models "art?" Good question.

My first college art class was called "Studio Foundations 1." Basically, "how to draw in pencil." The teacher stated he was teaching us how to draw, but that skill alone didn't make us artists. I tend to agree with that idea, but the definition of "art" is incredibly subjective. Here's my very subjective opinion ( not trying to say I'm an authority here, so please read in an "IMHO" wherever applicable ).

I recognize scratchbuilding as art in most cases. These people take raw materials and build their vision of the subject with few if any pre-built parts. That qualifies as sculpture ( therefore art ) in my mind. The biggest exception in my mind is in effects model-building. The goal is to produce someone else's design for the screen, not be creatuve ( except for the obvious problem-solving involved ) for the sake of self-expression.

Kit-based models, even with aftermarket enhancements, are a bit more tricky. Straight from the box is not art. Kitbashing is rarely art. That's not to say that they're "just making toys" or "not serious." I think of these as "craftsmanship," not "artistry." It's like a carpenter building from plans.

Where building models crosses into art is in the dioramas. The thought and skills that go into a well-done diorama involve more than faithfully recrating a subject, they involve trying to capture a moment in time and the human element, whether factual or fiction.

I've never referred to any of the models I've built to date as "art." Even with what cusomizing I occasionally do, it's no more artistic than a paint-by-number project. I put a heck of a lot more *craftsmanship* ( sorry, can't get italics this time ) into my models than a paint-by-number would demand, but that doesn't make them "art."

But, as always with art, It's in the eye of the beholder. This is just my point of view.

Have fun!


I couldn't even find my way back to "normal" with the Hubble!

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/randysmodels/No%20After%20Market%20Build%20Group/Group%20Badge/GBbadge2.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y211/razordws/GB%20Badges/WMIIIGBsmall.jpg

  • Member since
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  • From: Canada
Posted by gar26 on Wednesday, August 6, 2003 2:30 PM
Nude photographs were at one time nothing but pornographic but now alot of them are classified as art.
You have galleries in New York who show pieces of garbage glued together and call it art.
When a modeler takes that kit out of the box in his mind he has a vision of it and from that he creates he vision, adding detail to the kit and finishing with a paint job of his own design that is art. Museums display models of old ships or aircraft to show what it looked like and they display paintings and sculptures, so it is all art in one form or another.
gpebernat
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 7, 2003 10:19 PM
Modeling is neither an art or hobby.
It is an illness.
its expensive at times too.
I just hope no one starts a twelve step program for modelers.
LOL.

But seriously It for me started as a hobby that turned in to art.
I am an artist and my medium of choice is plastic kits.
Anyone who says that it is not an art is close minded and of all thing should not be an "art teacher".
Perhaps these people have not been exposed to the hobby the same way we have.
I have pitty on those that do not have the joy that we modelers when we build.

I say build on and lance the nay sayers.

I love the smell of paint thinner in the morning....It smells like.......well.................................."paint thinner".
  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: NE Georgia
Posted by Keyworth on Thursday, August 7, 2003 10:27 PM
Modelling allows you to be an artist, historian and poet all at the same time. The art is in the finished product, the history is in the research that went into the model, and the poetry in the work one does while building.
"There's no problem that can't be solved with a suitable application of high explosives"
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Where the coyote howl, NH
Posted by djrost_2000 on Thursday, August 7, 2003 11:30 PM
Some paintings are simple landscapes, or portraits, and they are called art. If self-expression is one of the qualifying factors for true art, then there are many model and diorama builders and figure painters that meet that criteria. If you have to put your mind, emotions, and soul into your' artistic endeavor for it to be called art, then there are certainly many model and diorama builders, and figure painters who are artists.

DJ
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: United Kingdom
Posted by U-96 on Friday, August 8, 2003 3:12 AM
Kugai, you have posted my exact thoughts from when this subject last appeared. I agree that much is craft rather than art. Those artistic models are the ones which elicit an emotional response, and none do that better than the diorama gods Smile [:)]
On the bench: 1/35 Dragon Sturmpanzer Late Recent: Academy 1/48 Bf-109D (Nov 06) Academy 1/72 A-37 (Oct 06) Revell 1/72 Merkava III (Aug 06) Italeri 1/35 T-26 (Aug 06)
  • Member since
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  • From: UK
Posted by gregers on Friday, August 8, 2003 8:39 AM
If as has been said before art is an expression of ones inner self then yes i belive that modelmaking is an art
lets face it , how many of us have put our heart and soul into a personal or favorite subject? and the end result has left you with a deep satisfaction or the person that you have done a kit of a fighting vehicle or aircraft that they once fought in been delighted with? i once did a fairey firefly for a korean vet, it was one of the a/c in his photos and he was nearly in tears when he saw it (it was an unexpected birthday present for him) if a simple model can evoke that sort of response then it surely must be art.
when asked at school to name a work of art most kids in my class named the MONA LISA thats ok if you like pictures of an ugly woman who looks like a guy that has no eyebrows! ok it is art but i would prefer to have a look around a bad model display than look at that particular picture. wasn't it yoko ono that displayed a rotting apple?that is most certainly not art in my humble opinion but only because there was no real effort put into it, if it was carefully crafted out of clay then painstakingly painted by hand then ok but it was just an apple going bad but the so called art fraternaty are supposed to have loved it, WHY?. anyway i degress i suppose that art is what you want it to be and if someone can't see what you see in your chosen art form then they are missing out and i feel sorry for them for being so blind to the perceptions of others....sorry for pontificating . this is only my very humble opinion . cheers...Greg
Why torture yourself when life will do it for you?
  • Member since
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  • From: USA
Posted by animal on Friday, August 8, 2003 8:46 AM
I think that it is an art. I for one have my work on display at the US Army Museum of Transportaion. We build replicas of histroy. If this isn't art I don't know what is.
Animal wants trucks!!! http://community.webshots.com/user/gtadw
  • Member since
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  • From: Brooklyn
Posted by wibhi2 on Friday, August 8, 2003 9:39 AM
Is model building an art?
What is art? Does it involve sculpting? Painting? Printing techniques? Use of non-traditional/traditional materials?

I believe that the "hobby" incorporates all the above. Problem is that people consider it a "hobby" and therefore not an art form.

As a 3d artist I run into question and snobbiness from other artists. With typical comments like - aww, the compuetr does it for you. You don't get to be apart of the work since it's not hands on, blah, blah, blah.

Which of course can not be further from the truth. Sometimes I feel that people feel intimidated by what they have no experience at or defy's thier preconcieved notions.

A closed mind is a good thing to waste.
3d modelling is an option a true mental excercise in frusrtation
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, August 8, 2003 10:04 AM
Is it art? I don't know; I come from an artistic background, i.e., professional theatre, television, motion pictures, etc. I look at my modeling much like I looked at my work in those professions. I consider myself to be practicing a craft, working toward hopefully one day becoming a Master Craftsman in my craft. As for the art part, that's not really for me to say - I'll leave that to those who will view my work. All I know is that modeling makes me happy, and gives me a great sense of satisfaction creating something with my own hands.

lowdog
  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by nimshi on Saturday, August 9, 2003 8:57 AM
We are all artists. We just use many canvas'.
  • Member since
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  • From: Cavite, Philippines
Posted by allan on Saturday, August 9, 2003 11:47 AM
Kugai & U-96,

With all due respect, I disagree. Perhaps there is indeed a thin line between art and craftsmanship, but I wholeheartedly believe that modelling is art. The differnce lies in the fact that scale modelling involves passion. Passion for the subject matter or for recreating life in miniature itself.

I submit that no two models, even OOB, will be exactly the same. The instructions are followed, but there will always be differences. As the others have said, it is in the expression of oneself that the distinctiveness arises.Smile [:)]

No bucks, no Buck Rogers

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 9, 2003 11:14 PM
Maybe the question should be.
Is it an art or is it a hobby?

Why can't it be both?

I agree with allen.
If you are proud of your work and you have worked hard to make a kit look good then you my friend are an artist weather you like it or not.

Remember art is how you view it.
Not how others view it for you.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 9, 2003 11:38 PM
I agree with allen. When a person becomes passionate about what he / she creates, the work is transformed from a time-passing craft or hobby into the realm of art. It is the drive of the spirit that expresses itself in the work. There is no mistaking those that have passion for this media.
  • Member since
    June 2003
Posted by M1abramsRules on Saturday, August 9, 2003 11:51 PM
one thing's for sure, its a great hobby!!!! (I like it anyway, don't know about anyone else on here.Tongue [:P])
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