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AH-1G Cobra Questions

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  • Member since
    April, 2013
AH-1G Cobra Questions
Posted by KnightTemplar5150 on Thursday, September 27, 2018 11:43 PM

Preparing to build the old Revell 1/32 Bell Huey AH-1G Cobra, I did a little poking around for images to verify details on the Cobra Company cockpit. There was an oversized knob molded into the face of instrument panel that had me stumped because of its size. I found my answer in this photo -

 

On the right of the panel is a prominent red placard directly above what appears to be (of all things) an ashtray. The mystery surrounding the over sized knob on the CC part is now solved, but it raises other questions for me.

The Cobra is a two man ship. If the pilot has an ashtray, it stands to reason that the gunner's position would also have an ashtray. Were G model Cobras really equipped with ashtrays? Where would the gunner's tray be located? Were they also equipped with cigarette lighters?

The rear bulkhead of the cockpit set features four rings and a rather bare shelf-like area below. Does anyone have a good photo of this area or can someone please explain to me what purpose the rings serve? 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, September 28, 2018 12:01 AM

I’ll have a look in my Squadron AH-1 Cobra Walkaround when I get home. They have some good cockpit photos in that book.

Too funny about the pilot’s ashtray. How times have changed... now the military is very anti tobacco in any form. Back then there was a small pack of cigarettes in every C-ration...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    April, 2013
Posted by KnightTemplar5150 on Friday, September 28, 2018 12:15 AM

I thought perhaps I was looking at a reconditioned panel or perhaps a custom job, but I am seeing it time and again in other photos of the G model taken from '67-'72. Now that I am intrigued by this little detail, I can't help but look for it in every photo I see. 

Most of the manuals I've looked at tend to focus on the instrument layout and switches, but I haven't found any specific mention of an ashtray. Still, it's a fun detail to work in, open or closed!

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, September 28, 2018 1:04 AM

KnightTemplar5150

Most of the manuals I've looked at tend to focus on the instrument layout and switches, but I haven't found any specific mention of an ashtray. Still, it's a fun detail to work in, open or closed!

 

Agreed!

Now how are you gonna model the ashes and butts? 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    May, 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Friday, September 28, 2018 2:14 AM

So THAT’S why no new tool 1/32 or 1/35 AH-1G has come out!  The anti-tobacco lobby would be up in arms like screaming chimpanzees!  As we all know, tobacco placement in model kits in any way, shape, or form is totally unacceptable, lest junior become brainwashed into a two pack a day addict!

Okay tongue in cheek mode off.  I actually hate smoking.

Maybe the gunner didn’t need an ashtray, because whenever HE lit up, the bad guys got smoked.

Okay tongue in cheek mode off for real this time.

But seriously, a really good, 1/35 modern tool AH-1G is overdue.  Kind of strange that the original helo gunship gets no love.

 

  • Member since
    March, 2007
  • From: The Boonies
Posted by Snake36Bravo on Friday, September 28, 2018 1:06 PM

Might explain all the cigarette butts on the front seater floor ;) Click the images for a larger version.

To answer your question on whether they had lighters like classic cars of that era did...that's a big negatory. The ash trays in the Huey didnt either. Thats why there was an engraved Zippo market in Vietnam. Photo by Tom Nutting

Si vis pacem, Para Bellum!

  • Member since
    April, 2013
Posted by KnightTemplar5150 on Friday, September 28, 2018 3:42 PM

Thanks, Snake - it seems to confirm my suspicions on the front seat position. It's good to get confirmation on the lighters as well.

Stick - not entirely sure how to approach butts and ashes. Perhaps wire or stretched sprue paired with a pinch of embossing powder and powdered pigments? Might just be easier to replace the knob and leave it closed, but I'll still poke through the spares for PE scraps that I can tinker with for a tray.

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Friday, September 28, 2018 4:15 PM

Hello!

Cigarettes are quite doable in 1:35. Here's how mine turned out - it's made of finely stretched sprue:

1:35 Good Morning Vietnam by Pawel

Painting it right is important. As for the ashes, just take some gray paint and it should do.

Good luck with your snake and have a nice day

PaweĊ‚

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, September 30, 2018 2:49 AM

KnightTemplar5150

 

The rear bulkhead of the cockpit set features four rings and a rather bare shelf-like area below. Does anyone have a good photo of this area or can someone please explain to me what purpose the rings serve? 

 

I had a look in my Squadron Walk Around book. There are no good close up photos of that area. One photo does show a first aid kit mounted on the bulkhead behind the pilot’s left shoulder. Another photo shows a steel pot hanging off something by the chinstrap behind and over the pilot’s right shoulder.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2004
Posted by hmills16 on Monday, January 28, 2019 2:51 PM

the area behind the Cobra aircraft commander (back seat) mounted some ECU equipment in later models with A?C's  but the early ships had only a survival kits (Jungle) strapped to the bulkhead.  The early Revell Cobra shows a big nondescript box with a strap.  Actually the kits mounted to rings on the bulkhead and contained food, water and a jungle axe that everyone pilfered.  It was canvas in OD and the surrounding area was gull grey padding.  I may have a picture of the areea somewhere but not as a primary focus.  Aircarft commanders put raincoats, flight jackets, Cav hats back there but nothing heavy for fear of it becoming a projectile.

Hugh Mills

Cobra driver

  • Member since
    September, 2004
Posted by hmills16 on Monday, January 28, 2019 3:09 PM

  • Member since
    September, 2004
Posted by hmills16 on Monday, January 28, 2019 3:10 PM

survival kit hot climate

  • Member since
    May, 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Monday, January 28, 2019 4:29 PM

In regards to the ashtray, would it not be extremely dangerous to smoke inside a vehicle using avgas and loaded with explosives?  Plus what happens if the pilot dropped his smoke on his lap, looked down for a moment, and didn't see the power lines up ahead?  Some friends who have had to ride around in CH-53s remarked those things reeked of avgas fumes.

  • Member since
    September, 2004
Posted by hmills16 on Tuesday, January 29, 2019 10:31 AM

There were ashtrays in OH-6's, OH-13's, UH-1's, AH-1's and all others I am aware of.  No they did not reek of fuel fumes (mostly JP-4)  Yes, I smoked in flight enroute to or from operations.  CH-53's had turbine engines and used JP series fuel (JP-5/6?)

Never saw a power line in Vietnam but hit a couple of telephone lines. 

Smoking was not my major concern.  All those people shootong at me was my mian concern.

Hugh

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, January 29, 2019 1:46 PM

hmills16

There were ashtrays in OH-6's, OH-13's, UH-1's, AH-1's and all others I am aware of.  No they did not reek of fuel fumes (mostly JP-4)  Yes, I smoked in flight enroute to or from operations.  CH-53's had turbine engines and used JP series fuel (JP-5/6?)

Never saw a power line in Vietnam but hit a couple of telephone lines. 

Smoking was not my major concern.  All those people shootong at me was my mian concern.

Hugh

 

Times have changed... you used to get a pack of smokes in each c-ration... now the DoD is major anti tobacco... and yes, the prospect of immediate death by hostile action versus fatal illness many years from now does put things into a certain perspective...

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Tuesday, January 29, 2019 2:00 PM

Real G

In regards to the ashtray, would it not be extremely dangerous to smoke inside a vehicke using avgas and loaded with explosives?  

 

Most military explosives are pretty cigarette proof. Military grade explosives such as Det cord and C4 require heat and high pressure to detonate. This is provided by another component- a blasting cap, fuse, etc. that detonates the main charge. The cap or fuse can be set of by differing means:percussion, electrical, impact, etc. depending upon type.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2004
Posted by hmills16 on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 10:04 AM

We often cooked c rations with burning chunks of C4.  It was abundantly available 

 

  • Member since
    March, 2007
  • From: The Boonies
Posted by Snake36Bravo on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 7:07 PM

stikpusher
KnightTemplar5150

 

The rear bulkhead of the cockpit set features four rings and a rather bare shelf-like area below. Does anyone have a good photo of this area or can someone please explain to me what purpose the rings serve? 

I had a look in my Squadron Walk Around book. There are no good close up photos of that area. One photo does show a first aid kit mounted on the bulkhead behind the pilot’s left shoulder. Another photo shows a steel pot hanging off something by the chinstrap behind and over the pilot’s right shoulder.

 

Here are some images of this area. The old Squadron Signal Walk Around lacks in many ways. As noted by Darkhorse 16, featured in the walk around, the area was often used to stow all kinds of warfighter stuff up to and including a pillow by one intrepid Army Aviator.

Note the canopy breakfree knife on the antiglare shield in this image.

Loren Gee AH1G Camp Eagle

 

 

Si vis pacem, Para Bellum!

  • Member since
    April, 2013
Posted by KnightTemplar5150 on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 8:40 PM

Thanks for sharing your input, gentlemen! The breakfree knife is a detail that I have read reference to, but the photo makes it so much clearer. I'd forgotten how often you can spot Army issued 90 MPH tape being used. Dad always seemed to have a roll of that tape in his flight kit, so it seems that it may be another one of those little details that needs to be worked in! Thanks again - it's very much appreciated! 

If you should happen to have any more of those "must include" details on the Cobra, please let me know!

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 9:05 PM

Snake 36, call me blind, but I can’t pick out any knife in any of those photos. I do see what looks to be a M1/M2 carbine along the left side window sill in the background in the middle photo... I see log books, and other army green binders...

where is that knife?!

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    March, 2007
  • From: The Boonies
Posted by Snake36Bravo on Wednesday, January 30, 2019 11:54 PM

Here is a better picture of it and a pointer on that image and another.

 

 

Si vis pacem, Para Bellum!

  • Member since
    September, 2004
Posted by hmills16 on Thursday, January 31, 2019 10:54 PM

The purpose of the breakout knife was to shatter the canopy for escape.  Not worth poop for "cutting out."  The canopy will shatter and allow egress when struck by the short stubby, very heavy breakout knife or tool.

Hugh

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, January 31, 2019 11:50 PM

hmills16

The purpose of the breakout knife was to shatter the canopy for escape.  Not worth poop for "cutting out."  The canopy will shatter and allow egress when struck by the short stubby, very heavy breakout knife or tool.

Hugh

 

 

I presume the edged portion of the knife would cut any harness straps that did not release?

The breakout knife is a new one to me. I’m quite familiar with the aviator survival knife. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    June, 2019
Posted by LK23 on Tuesday, June 18, 2019 12:12 PM
Snake36Bravo, I sent you a PM. LK23
  • Member since
    April, 2016
Posted by GlennH on Friday, June 21, 2019 10:24 PM

hmills16

We often cooked c rations with burning chunks of C4.  It was abundantly available 

 

 

just going through posts and progress. C4 yes. I can honestly say I never once even saw a heat tab used.

A number Army Viet Nam scans from hundreds yet to be done:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/southwestdreams/albums/72157621855914355

Have had the great fortune to be on every side of the howitzers.

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: USA
Posted by keavdog on Saturday, June 22, 2019 12:05 AM

Always great to se LTC Hugh Mills on here.  Low Level Hell is one of my favorite books.  Innovator and hero.  Sent me OH-6 detailed pics a while back.  Thank you for your service sir!   Working on the 1/35 scale version of your bird.

Thanks,

John

  • Member since
    October, 2009
  • From: San Antonio, Texas
Posted by Gregbbear on Tuesday, July 02, 2019 8:28 PM

Wow, when I was a kid, my Dad bought me squadron's Gunslingers in Action.  I then built Revell's Cobra and Loach of Hugh Mills.  And he posts on FSM forum?  Much respect LtC Mills.  

40 or so years later, I still have the book, "squater swatter" is on the cover.   I'm trying not to be a dork, but this is really cool.  I wonder if those decals are available in 1/72......

Greg

 

Greg Broadbear- yat yas!

 

   

  • Member since
    March, 2007
  • From: The Boonies
Posted by Snake36Bravo on Wednesday, July 10, 2019 1:07 PM

LK23
p Words: 0

Sorry for the late reply brother. I was lost in Panzer Land again. Replied.

Si vis pacem, Para Bellum!

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