The answer to the big Black Hawk Down Question

Just an observation from a Blackhawk crewchief, a fries bar can only use 2 ropes (fast rope) however you can have 4 rappelling ropes deployed at once.

Hey guys,

I just finished "In the Company of Heroes" today... WOW. What a read! I'd read BHD several times, and the movie is a near-weekly occurrance around my apartment, but Durant's firsthand account is just amazing. I highly recommend it to everyone here!

salbando

I think I could write a book with all the infos I got from you!
Thanks again.

Avus,
The MH-60L's in Mog were configured to carry max pax. That is maximum troops. They had no seats except for the gunner's seats, and the internal auxillery fuel tanks were removed since the mission ranges were not that great. Now bear in mind it's been over ten years since I was there so my memory might be off, but I'm 99% sure of this. Others who have experienced ops with max pax can attest to the fact that you stack 'em however you can! Guys would sit on gear and cram into the birds. Usually four guys sat an either door sill (8 total) of the Blackhawks with there feet hanging down in the breeze. There was a safety strap across the doorway, which was removed when you got close to the target area, and the guys secured the hawsers (fast ropes) to the H-bar extensions.
Funny story...the skinny's got pissed whenever they saw us flying over the city since we were exposing the soles of our feet to the whole populace. In the Muslim world that's the equivelent to flipping the bird only worse. We actually found propaganda flyers talking about this that were distributed by the SNA (Somali National Congress-Aideed's clan).
Anyway, 18 Rangers was the norm for a single Blackhawk chaulk with four crewdogs (pilot, co-pilot, gunner, crew chief/gunner). I'm not sure how many D-boys were on the assault Blackhawks (Super 61-62), but I do know that 3 D-boys stayed onboard (along with the 2 gunners) to provide aerial fire support.
The SAR bird (Super 68) actually carried a 24 member team of rangers, PJ's and CCT members. Now that's a full load if you've never seen it before.
After the fast rope insertion (two ropes-NEVER four), the hawsers are dropped to the ground and the helo's come out of the hover. The hawsers are usually then recovered from the ground (if possible).
This is getting long but I know its a popular subject on this forum. You were talking about the DAP birds. The DAP bird is a configuration of the MH-60L (not K) and they actually had the gear in Somalia. In fact CWO Durrant was planning a gunnery training flight for 4 October, when the Black Sea daylight snatch and dash mission came up.
Hope that helps..

Thanks salbando,

After the Pavehawk rescue scene I'll be up to a Mog scene with hovering Blackhawk. I got back to that plan (see blackhawk down dio topic) after getting the DAP for X-Mas.
One more question: how many rabgers did a Hawk carry and how was the crew formed?

Avus,
The 160th had MH-60L's. No inflight refueling probe, no doppler radar on nose, but they did have FLIR under the nose. The MH-60L's always flew (at least as far as I can remember) with FLIR installed, and they also had the AN/ALQ-144 disco ball on top. They also had the RWR and IR plume detectors. Regardless of what you saw in the movie, this is what they had. The little birds also had FLIR, but if it wasn't a night mission (and even sometimes when it was) they would not instal the FLIR. When they didn't have the FLIR installed, they would also remove the FLIR displays in the cockpit. Normally there's one on each side of the instrument panel (giving it that mushroom or "T" shape), but when the FLIR wasn't used, they removed them for better visibility and SA (situational awareness). Oddly, they would leave the FLIR control box on the side of the door frame.
Fast roping. Generally speaking it's done anywhere from 15-40 or 50 feet. If I remember correctly, the ropes in Mog were 30 ft but there were longer ropes (I think). I've never done, or seen it done higher than 50 ft.

I've never done a diorama before, but why not use two pieces of plexiglass. Their "existance" could be hidden by a building. rest your blackhawk up there and use loose "cable" instead.

BTW:
At what altitude do you fast-rope?
What kind of MH-60 were used in Somalia, L or K?
Did they have the IFRP, IR-Sensors, FLIR and Radome mounted during the 3rd October incident?

A good training exercise for helo pilots & the cabin crewmen is for the pilot to be guided to place one main wheel on a rock on top of a cliff. Going from that, you could have the chopper with one main wheel on top of a single storey building, with troops going onto the roof. AND, troops roping out of the door into the street. Your Helicopter is suspended onto a rod built into the building then into the cabin roof, but put figures around it so it won't show. How's that?
Pete

Just spitballing here but maybe there's an alternative. To susoend a helo in flight, maybe you could incorperate a thick wire or rod to the side of the helo (making sure the support runs throughout the model). Position the side of the helo with the mount such that it is not clearly visable when looking at the diorama. You could even set up two walls of the display with background photos which would further serve to mask the support rod/wire. Cotton painted or dyed to look like that evil damn talcom powder dust/sand (sorry, just had a flashback of that crap from Somalia) could be used to look like the plum cushion created by the Blackhawks rotor wash (and I can tell you there was LOTS of dust/sand).
Hopefully you get the mental picture of what I'm trying to describe. I'm planning on doing the same diorama except I'll have several little birds dropping of D-boys, and maybe an AH-6 buzzing around.
I know with this technique the support may still be slightly visable, but hey..it may be the only real option, and it would still look cool.
How are you planning on making the rotors look like they're spinning???

Not to sound like I'm jumping in on your parade, but I toyed around with this idea a couple of years back. I bought a 1/48 Hasegawa Blackhawk and attempted to build a dio to commemorate the Aust. Army's 1996 SAS Blackhawk tragedy. While I was only in high-school at the time, I couldn't get the chopter to 'balance' while the rotators were spinning cos I stuck a motor in it. If my memory serves me correctly, I bent a couple of thick brass poles and then glued three thick ropes (the stuff that ties up parcels and other mail stuff - forget how thick it was) and braded/weeved them around the brass poles. I didn't secrurely attach the blackhawk to the top of the poles cos I wanted a removal fixature for future transport needs. Seeing that I couldn't get the helo to sit safely aloft, I threw out the dio idea and stuck my chopter on the table (much safer).

Now given a few years of modeling has passed, I would say that your idea will work but try this idea. Don't have separate 'poles' running up from the base. Take a very long piece of wire/metal and bend it into the shape so it makes up the framework of the chopter, and build the model around that. As long as you secure the metal straight thru the base (rather than sink-hole it), this may help it to stand up.

Good luck anyway mate - I hope yours works out!

I know it might be difficult, but for accuracy blackhawks deployed only two ropes.
One on either side.
Good luck, sounds like a fun one to build