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Pave Hawk Questions

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, February 5, 2004 2:48 AM
To All,
No problem. We all have info on a range of subjects that we share with others on this forum. I'm just fortunate to have knowledge on a certain area, and am more than happy to help everyone else out. You've all done the same for me in other areas, and hopefully will continue to do so. I've said it before, and I'll say it again...joining this forum has given me many new friends and was a good decision.Big Smile [:D]
Avus,
COme on now. Do you honestly expect me to believe that you don't OCCASIONALY take a little red or white home with you to have with some pasta???
Paul,
I was probably TDY somewhere not so nice! Actually, we've had a couple prior Army helo drivers transfer into the unit. The unfortunate thing is that 3 out of the five never really could make the adjustment. Not sure why, but all three were given the choice of FEB or look for another career field. Of the two that did work out, one is argueably our best stick. I looked at your profile, and seeing what your next writing project is has me with great anticipation. Let me know if I can help out.
Mattp,
Most if not all the "tan" birds were from the 920th ARG (a reserve unit) that deployed to Iraq. As I stated earlier, ALL of the grey birds are ex-AFSOC birds (55th SOS) that were handed over to the rescue sqaudrons (most went to Moody). The only other grey birds are 422 TES birds out of Nellis. One of our HH-60G's came back recently from Corpus Christi with the new SLEP mods and a fresh paint job. Guess what????? It was Euro I.
Now, be advised that recently AFSOC has taken over the lead agency role for USAF CSAR (formerly ACC-Air Combat Command). It basically means a patch swap for most rescue squadrons in the USAF, but considering that AFSOC (Air Force Special Ops Command) has tended lately to paint ALL there aircraft grey, who know's what the future holds for HH-60G's. All I know is what I see operationally.
Cheers everyone!



  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 4, 2004 10:00 PM
FYI, there are some PaveHawks coming back from Iraq with sand schemes. They look like two-tone schemes. Most though, are overall gray.

These are the birds coming back to Corpus Christi Army Depot where they do the depot-level maintenance on 60s and 47s.
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 4, 2004 9:13 PM
Sal,
Where were you when I wrote my book? (HA!). I've got a nephew that's a Pave Hawk pilot ... stationed at Moody right now. When I did the 'in Action' book, he was a Black Hawk driver with the Army. Now that's he's smarter ... he transfered to the Air Force. As a former Army Huey CC ... I had to delete him from the will. Now my two sons get all my left over models when I go! All kidding aside, you have been a great help to us all.
All the best ... and I'll drop you an email when I get back home.
Paul
  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Wednesday, February 4, 2004 9:01 PM
WOW....

Well, that certainly clears that up!

Thanks for the warm welcome guys. And thank you Salbando! This just made my job a whole lot easier!
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Caput Mundi
Posted by Avus on Wednesday, February 4, 2004 4:13 AM
Laugh [(-D]Laugh [(-D]Laugh [(-D] Sometimes the temptation do the tasteing instead of the the instrument is big!

Klaus

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  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 4, 2004 3:27 AM
Yeah, you know me good buddy. It just happened to be right up my alley. Don't work to hard on that project...sniff...sniff (heh, heh).Wink [;)]
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Caput Mundi
Posted by Avus on Wednesday, February 4, 2004 3:19 AM
I KNEW IT!
You wouldn't have resisted this one, Sal!
Great info as usual!

Klaus

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 4, 2004 3:14 AM
OK Guys here ya go.
Paintjobs...The Pavehawks are all painted Euro I with the exception of the old AFSOC birds (55th SOS) and some of the 422 TES birds out of Nellis. Those birds were painted overall gunship grey mainly because that's what AFSOC did with ALL of their birds (Pave Low's, Herks, Gunships). When AFSOC deactivated their one and only Pavehawk unit and thus ended the MH-60G's service in the USAF, the 422 TES was the only unit left that operated grey HH-60G's. BTW, MH-60G's and HH-60G's are one in the same. In fact, the 55th SOS birds were given to various USAF rescue squadrons.
Why do some Euro I painted Pavehawks seem to have a different scheme than others??? Because they do. Your eyes are not playing games on you. When HH-60G's go down to Texas for depot maintenance and SLEP upgrades, they get painted. Sometimes they come back in a little bit different scheme. Most of the colors stay the same (Euro I) but lately it seems like the grey has gotten a little darker. Could it be that they ran out of the old paint??? I don't know. I do know that for the most part they remain painted in the standard Euro I paint scheme. I do know that the same thing happened to some of our HC-130's when they were painted in Euro I and went down to depot. Bottom line is to pick and example and stick with that scheme, or use the painting instructions that came with your kit.

FLIR...all Pavehawks have the mounts for FLIR but the unit is not always installed. For example, my squadron has 6 Pavehawks but only 4 FLIR units. We always have the FLIR installed on the alert bird and the stand-by bird. But we usually don't install it on the other helos. Why?....Because that D$@N!!! FLIR unit is a FOD machine (for those of you who don't know what that means FOD stands for Foreign Object Damage or Debris depending on the usage of the term). The only way the USAF could instal the FLIR so it would have an unobstructed view is under the nose, or else the AR boom (the probe) would block it's view. The problem is that you've really got to be carefull when operating in a rough LZ or you'll ding that nice little piece of equipment all to hell. Remember when the PVT Lynch rescue footage was shown? Remember when the FLIR tape panned right much of the view was suddenly blocked by the AR boom/probe? That's 'cause the Army MH-60K/L's mount their FLIR's differently.

Bendix Radar....All Pavehawks have them. Most are installed on the lower left side of the nose as they were initially installed there. As with all (almost all) USAF aircraft, the HH-60G is/has going/gone through a number of upgrades or SLEPs (Service Life Extension Programs). Remember this when I cover the plume detectors/RHAW gear next. Anyway, the only HH-60G's with the radars positioned in the slightly above center of the nose are some of the 422 TES birds. The 422 TES is a test and evaluation unit at Nellis AFB responsible for testing all/any new sytems for the HH-60G. The upper nose mounted radar WAS supposed to be part of the second planned SLEP, but to date I have not seen any other USAF birds with this mod. That's where the Army has there radar's mounted, and it's probably a better place but say la vee.

Plume detectors...One of the SLEPs involves (among other things) the plume detectors being mounted on the front upper section of the nose, the sides of the gear sponsons, and on the lower to mid rear area of the vertical stab. Again this is to improve missile launch detection for the aircraft's defensive suite.

Sincerely,
Your friendly USAF SAR dude.
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Caput Mundi
Posted by Avus on Wednesday, February 4, 2004 2:12 AM
Welcome Trigger74, Sign - Welcome [#welcome]

I'm working on a Pavehawk since almost a year. I decided to apply the Euro1 scheme and I'm going to build a particular bird I found on a pic of the AFsite (but it's no longer there).

The picture you're talking about is pretty dark, I can tell by the flight dresses that sould be sage green. So it's probable that the color on the helo is not black but dark gray; the AF has or had Pavehawks painted ovarall in this color.

I noticed the same thing: it's hard to find two birds that look alike on photograph. I don't think it's idividuality but rather mission-dependent. Most of the equipment you talk about can be installed and disinstalled according to the mission the helo and its crew has to perform.

Klaus

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Pave Hawk Questions
Posted by Trigger on Tuesday, February 3, 2004 10:06 PM
I'm starting on the 1/35 scale Pave Hawk and I'm currently leaning to finish it in European 1 colors. I know that for airlifters, the colors spec'd are FS34092 Euro 1 Green, FS34102 Medium Green and FS36118 Gunship Gray. I've spent the last week surfing for reference pix and I can see these colors on most pix, but some photos show another color, looks like black, that's sometimes a fourth color, sometimes replaces FS34092. (http://www.af.mil/photos/index.asp?galleryID=42&page=5)

Is this color black? Is this an older or a trial scheme? And is it just me, or in almost any Pave Hawk pix, do no two birds ever look alike.
- Radar thimble in different positions (usually on the Gunship Gray HH-60's)
- Some have FLIR, others don't
- Some have have what look like IR warning blisters on the nose, yet others in the pic don't

It looks like there's a lot of "individuality" to these machines. And I'm now thinking that I'm going to have to model a specific bird from a very specific time.

Trigger74
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"All we are is dust in the wind, dude"
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------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
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