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Operation Gothic Serpent (Somalia) MH-60L question

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  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Burke, VA
Operation Gothic Serpent (Somalia) MH-60L question
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:35 PM
I have read and been told by many that the 160th SOAR MH-60Ls used in Op Gothic Serpent did not have IFR probes on them, nor internal or external Aux tanks due to the ranges being flown and the need for max pax space. Here are my questions:

Was the right side step fairing a normal "L" model one, or was the larger one for the IFR probe still installed, but with no actual probe sticking out of it?

If the larger step fairing was installed, would the hole where the IFR probe goes be capped, or just left as a large hole in the front of the sponson?

Anyone have any ideas?

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

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"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
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Posted by intruder_bass on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 5:46 PM
Gino,

Here is the pic again


No probe, usuall step... As far as I know all Super 6s were alikeSmile [:)]

Andy
  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Burke, VA
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, October 12, 2005 8:40 PM
Looks like a standard step fairing to me. Thanks.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: http://smg.photobuck...v231/HeavyArty/?

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    February, 2004
  • From: Ft. Bragg, NC
Posted by adrake2 on Thursday, October 13, 2005 5:54 PM
Sign - Ditto [#ditto]
The MH-60L series was just an interium improvement over the MH-60A Velcro Hawk until the Kilo model became available in mid to late 90s. As such, not all the Lima birds were fitted with refueling probes or the enlarged fairing. Since there was no need for extended ranges in Somolia, the Limas without probes were sent so that the mid-air refueling capable helicopters could be reserveded should that need arise elsewhere.
-Aaron
  • Member since
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  • From: Caput Mundi
Posted by Avus on Friday, October 14, 2005 1:31 AM
Hey wait a second ... no plume detectors on the nose? I was told they had them intalled.
And what about the nose radar?

Klaus

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  • Member since
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Posted by intruder_bass on Friday, October 14, 2005 5:56 AM
no detectors no horns - weather radar and FLIR stays onWink [;)]

Andy
  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Burke, VA
Posted by HeavyArty on Friday, October 14, 2005 9:42 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by intruder_bass

no detectors no horns - weather radar and FLIR stays onWink [;)]

Andy


Sorry Avus, have to agree with Andy. No plume detectors on Op Gothic Serpent birds. They were a later mod. Yes on FLIR and Weather Radar though.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: http://smg.photobuck...v231/HeavyArty/?

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
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  • From: Caput Mundi
Posted by Avus on Friday, October 14, 2005 10:18 AM
Roger! Got that!
It's a UH-60 with nose and chin Wink [;)]

Klaus

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  • Member since
    November, 2013
Posted by intruder_bass on Friday, October 14, 2005 4:19 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Avus

Roger! Got that!
It's a UH-60 with nose and chin Wink [;)]


And with a whole banch of antennasWink [;)] and miniguns

Andy
  • Member since
    January, 2005
  • From: returning to the FSM forum after a hiatus
Posted by jinithith2 on Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:29 PM
"Super 6-4 is going down, Super 6-4 is going down, Super 6-4 is ... just kidding!"
"HAHA Americans funny. We no shoot them no more! Screw Aidid, me kill him tomorrow. Me go home and have tea and khat now!" (what we'd like to hear from a less serious version of Blakc Hawk Down)
  • Member since
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  • From: Burke, VA
Posted by HeavyArty on Sunday, October 23, 2005 5:42 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by jinithith2

"Super 6-4 is going down, Super 6-4 is going down, Super 6-4 is ... just kidding!"
"HAHA Americans funny. We no shoot them no more! Screw Aidid, me kill him tomorrow. Me go home and have tea and khat now!" (what we'd like to hear from a less serious version of Blakc Hawk Down)


???

Guess that was supposed to be funny. Remind me to laugh next time.

Pretty tasteless if you ask me.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: http://smg.photobuck...v231/HeavyArty/?

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    November, 2013
Posted by intruder_bass on Sunday, October 23, 2005 7:41 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by HeavyArty

QUOTE: Originally posted by jinithith2

"Super 6-4 is going down, Super 6-4 is going down, Super 6-4 is ... just kidding!"
"HAHA Americans funny. We no shoot them no more! Screw Aidid, me kill him tomorrow. Me go home and have tea and khat now!" (what we'd like to hear from a less serious version of Blakc Hawk Down)


???

Guess that was supposed to be funny. Remind me to laugh next time.

Pretty tasteless if you ask me.


Pretty stupid I would sayAngry [:(!]
  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Sunday, October 23, 2005 8:35 PM
I'd like to third that.

There is no such thing as a "less serious version of Black Hawk Down". While the actual events have been popularized in a movie that we've all come to appreciate, there are 19 soldiers who are no longer among us because of that very incident. Death in combat, usually violent and brutal is no situation to be made "less serious".

Your origins may be from outside this country, but remember, your right to even write the nonsense that you've posted here is guaranteed by those who serve this country. By mocking the sacrifices that they have made (and in the process, raising the ire of several of them on this very forum), you have done nothing but lessen everybody's opinion of you.

I realize you are young. You have contributed to this forum and have built some impressive models along the way. We expected better from you. THINK before you post something like that.
"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
    February, 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Sunday, October 23, 2005 9:02 PM
And all those that died between 1950 and 1953 and still serve there helping keep your country free
  • Member since
    November, 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, October 23, 2005 9:46 PM
Hate to throw a wrench in the gears but I remember that at least one of the TF MH-60's did not have the weather radar (S-67?). They all had FLIR, Disco Balls and batwing SATCOM antennas (no X's), but I distinctly remember one bird not having the radar. And Gino's correct...the APR-39 system with plume detectors had not been installed at the time (not even sure if it was available then).

Kyo-Jin,
I sincerely hope you never have to experience combat nor the taking of lives in service to ones country, at home or abroad. Many of us here in this forum have. Understand that the events protrayed in the movie you referenced were based on reality. That is to say they really happened and the characters portrayed were real people. I knew many of them. Do not dishoner their sacrifice or service by making such "off the cuff" insensitive remarks. Instead be happy that they, as do many of us still, wear the uniform and accept the possible opportunity to make the ultimate sacrifice in defense of freedom.
  • Member since
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  • From: Caput Mundi
Posted by Avus on Monday, October 24, 2005 2:47 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Cobrahistorian
While the actual events have been popularized in a movie that we've all come to appreciate, there are 19 soldiers who are no longer among us because of that very incident.

And not to mention the somali casualties. Even though the were the "bad guys" you have to repect each lost life.
And BTW in war there are no "bad guys" your opponents are peole just like you; they only happen to be on the other side of the barricade.

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cobrahistorian
Death in combat, usually violent and brutal is no situation to be made "less serious".

Amen to that!

Klaus

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  • Member since
    November, 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, October 24, 2005 9:54 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Avus

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cobrahistorian
While the actual events have been popularized in a movie that we've all come to appreciate, there are 19 soldiers who are no longer among us because of that very incident.

And not to mention the somali casualties. Even though the were the "bad guys" you have to repect each lost life.
And BTW in war there are no "bad guys" your opponents are peole just like you; they only happen to be on the other side of the barricade.


You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I realize I might be a bit biased, but having been on the recieving end of incoming mortar rounds fired by by these people on a nightly basis, and sniping during daylight hours, it is kind of hard for me not to be biased. So you might understand if I refuse to accept that they are remotely anything like myself, the people I served with, and those who were killed by them.

The media called them "militia" but in reality, who they resembled more than any other group was street gangs that can be found in any large city in the U.S. Any attempt to enhance or justify who they were, and what they stood for is, in my opinion, typical of the bovine scatology spouted by those in the news media whose only goal seems to be the first to report a story

You can refuse to pass judgement on those people if you want and rationalize what they were doing, but I was there and know exactly what kind of twisted behavior they engaged in. I wouldn't classify them as anything other than "Bad".

  • Member since
    November, 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 12:13 AM
Jonathan,
I was there too Bro and agree one hundred percent.

Avus,
Normally you'd be right my friend. That is to say in certain past wars you met on the field of battle and fought for what each other believed in. Somalia was different......an honerable opponent doesn't hide behind women and children to take pot shots at you. They don't dismember fallen enemy combatants and then drag them around the streets for two days chanting like a bunch of idiots, especially considering that we would and did risk our lives to save their wounded. They don't steal food from starving women and children (or kill them when they get in the way) to pad their gang's warehouses and then offer to sell it back to them for their allegiance.
I can honestly say that they were "bad" as someone who was there during the Provide Relief/Restore Hope JTF when we were feeding people and saving lives (along with the Belgians, Germans, Italians, Canadians, Australians and others), and then went back for Gothic Serpent. Some might see it as "they just have a different culture". Well that may be, and I even consider myself an objective common sense kind of guy, but those people did things that not only will I not repeat here in the forum, but I have a hard time dealing with in my own mind.

Not meant to offend anyone, but please don't judge Jonathan and me for holding these opinions. We were there, we saw it, and it can't help but affect your view.

If anyone wants to discuss it further, please ping me directly. Now.....back to the modeling.
  • Member since
    June, 2003
  • From: Caput Mundi
Posted by Avus on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:33 AM
This discussion has gone waaay off topic but I'd like to continue it since it really is interesting.
Guess I'll contact you both by mail ... in the next days.

QUOTE: Originally posted by salbando

Now.....back to the modeling.


Sign - Ditto [#ditto]

Klaus

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  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Burke, VA
Posted by HeavyArty on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 10:14 AM
Have to chime in and agree with Sal and Jonathan here. They were not a noble opponenet to be respected. They were animals and were nothing else but bad. They did things that were outside the realm of acceptable human behavior. No sympathy for them at all.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: http://smg.photobuck...v231/HeavyArty/?

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    November, 2013
Posted by intruder_bass on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 2:00 PM
Let me turn this conversation back on its track. Wink [;)] Sal and Jonathan, you guys where there in Somalia during Gothic Serpent... PLS tell us more about Nightstalkers aircrafts involved in operation! I myself still wonder if Little birds in Somalia (Star 4*) had FLIR turrets. Did MH-6's have "fast rope things" above the benches?... Which kind of SATCOM antenna was on LITTLE BIRDS? I know that MH-60L had UFO shaped SATCOM (not X), how about AH-6? MH-6?

Thanks a lot!!!!

Andy
  • Member since
    February, 2004
  • From: Ft. Bragg, NC
Posted by adrake2 on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 6:10 PM
I can answer the MH-6J FRIES question. Yes, they did have them installed. In Mark Bowden's book, the MH-6 which inserted the D-Boys in front of the target building had the FRIES mounts installed. I remember that vividly because the brownout caused the D-Boys to think they were much higher. When the slid down the fast rope, they dropped about a foot before their feet hit the dirt.
But I'm sure Sal can answer better than I can though.
-Aaron
  • Member since
    February, 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 8:07 PM
I seem to recall reading on another thread here recently that the AH/MH-6 Little Birds did not have the FLIR installed back in 93. Again, confirmation?
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    November, 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 12:52 AM
Here's what I remember (wish I could find the G$#%$^ photos):

All of the Killer Eggs that I remember were configured with two 7-shot 2.75" FFAR tubes, and 2 M-134's. They also had a type of engine exhaust deflector shroud that angled down off of the regular exhaust you'd normally see on standard H-500's. Bear in mind I'm only guessing at the function, but that seemed like the most plausible explanation (engine exhaust deflection) in my mind. The weird thing is I'm pretty sure that the Six Pax didn't have them. Maybe it was due to an armament thing......couldn't tell ya. Maybe Jonathan knows.
The Six Pax always had benches and FRIES tubes installed.
As far as SATCOM for both of them, I'm pretty sure they had it and I almost want to say that they had X-antennas as opposed to the MH-60's which had SATCOM with batwing antennas. As far as describing the batwing, the vertical blade is swept forward and the horizontal blade is...well...kinda like a squared off batwing. I'd bet a paycheck Gino, Grant, or Avus have a photo of it somewhere.
Lastly, I'm fairly confident that the SIx Pax didn't have FLIR nor even FLIR mounts, controls or displays. And I'm not positive but I think it was the same deal for the Killer Eggs as well. NODs/NVGs were pretty much the name of the game for night missions. They both did have the IR light on the nose. I do know that the MH-60's had FLIR, but at least one (maybe more) didn't have the radar.
Nothing there had plume detectors.

Now......I'm gonna go have a glass of scotch. It was one of those kinda days at work.

Bando
  • Member since
    February, 2004
  • From: Moooooon River!
Posted by Trigger on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:44 AM


Found on hyperscale:


When I get home from work tonight, I'll see if I can find my Nightstalker books and scan in some pix

Late A.M. Update
Crap. I just went to bhd93.com and their site had been trashed. They're rebuilding, but the galleries are disabled.
------------------------------------------------------------------ - Grant "Can't let that nest in there..."
  • Member since
    November, 2013
Posted by intruder_bass on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:17 AM
Thanks guys!
One more thing about MH-60L SATCOM. Are you sure it was "batwing" style? Not the disc (cercle)?

Just wondering cuz at first I made X-type on my Black Hawk and sent pics of it to crew chief of Super 65 - Pat Powers for approvalWink [;)] He pointed my mistake and told me that SATCOM on their's MH-60s where just like on this photo:


Maybe I am wrong but it looks like dish or oval to me....just like Academy gives us in the kit for Paw Hawk...
PLS correct me if its not true

Andy
  • Member since
    June, 2003
  • From: Caput Mundi
Posted by Avus on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 6:48 AM
Guess I have to find a picture Sal sent me. It was the tail section of a MH-60L in Somalia. Hope that can see the Satcom. I'll get back to you later today.

...or maybe tomorrow! Ashamed [*^_^*]

Klaus

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  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Burke, VA
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 5:03 PM
Looks like a round SatCom on this pic of Venom, Super 64, as well.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: http://smg.photobuck...v231/HeavyArty/?

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:13 PM
Interesting that -65 doesn't have the disco ball fitted either...
"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
    November, 2013
Posted by intruder_bass on Wednesday, October 26, 2005 11:24 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Cobrahistorian

Interesting that -65 doesn't have the disco ball fitted either...



Do you have picture of -65 without disco ball? If you nean the one in my post - its not of -65. I used it just as an example for SATCOM antenna


Andy

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