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Unusual Vietnam Hueys

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  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Thursday, August 09, 2007 9:00 AM

Chris,

You sure that's an M?  Aren't those the lower portions of the FM aerials on the nose?  This one's definitely got me stumped, but I think that's a mutant B.  In any case, if you look at the closeup of 554 firing the missile, is it me, or can you just make out the outline of the "Whispering Death" patch on the nose?

Ray,

As Chris said, both birds had the Strela kits when they were in country.   We've found some additional documentation at NARA that I'm hoping to delve into at some point in the near future.  I may try to swing by there after work today.  The one with the kill marks was definitely 553.  In fact, in one of the pics that I've got, you can clearly see the "55" on the tail, only the tail rotor blade is covering up most of the last digit.  The kill marks are visible in that pic as well, IIRC. One of the Squadron books did a profile of it, but incorrectly identified it as "551".  With the documentation I came across at TTU, that confirmed that the tails were 553 and 554. 

 

Jon

"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:51 AM

Chief,

  Thanks for the info!  I had already noticed the antenna thing and talked to Jon about it.  I just wasn't sure that was consistent throughout the history of the airframes.  The pic I saw of the bird that I didn't think had the anti-strella kit installed is in two refs: Army Gunships in Vietnam- Chenoweth, p.71, fig 135 and Squadron Uh-1 Hueyin Action-Mutza, p. 43.  It is a three-quarters shot, but when I compare it to the three quarters shot in squadron UH-1 huey in color-mutza, p.30, the toilet bowl is clearly visible in the latter, but not in the former.  Since the pic shows a bird with kill marks painted on her, I'm pretty sure it's one of the VN birds.  In fact, it should be 553 based on missing nose antennas. Check it out and see what you think.

     Ray

  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: Oklahoma
Posted by chopperfan on Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:51 AM
 Cobrahistorian wrote:

I just snagged a Heller N model and a Revell Seasprite in one lot.  Can't beat that with a stick!  Maybe my craving for both aircraft will be sated for a while now...

 

 

 

naaaaaaaaah!

 

Jon 

Jon, Jon, Jon.....If I had only known you were looking for an "N" bird, I could have sweetened the pot even MORE!!!!! 

Randie [C):-)]Agape Models Without them? The men on the ground would have to work a lot harder. You can help. Please keep 'em flying! http://www.airtanker.com/
  • Member since
    August, 2004
  • From: Maryland
Posted by Chief Snake on Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:29 AM

Ray, there were three NUH-1B TOW aircraft. One was taken off the Bell production line and used as the development, test and training platform in 1964. Its' whereabouts is unknown but the serial is known. It may be the TOW you see without the exhaust suppressor. The two NUH-1B combat aircraft can be differentiated most easily by the FM antennas you would see on the nose. 553 did not have them, 554 DID have them. Also, the paint schemes are different. 553 has very irregular black patches with many in leaf shapes. 554 is very gentle in it's application with larger smoother patches. On the left pilot door of 553, there is a playboy bunny shape painted in black very clearly discernable.

 

Chief Snake 

  • Member since
    July, 2007
  • From: Miami, FL
Posted by leadfooterm535i on Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:21 AM
Jon, what scale is the SH-2F you're going to convert? I have an Aifix of the same model I bought thinking it was an earlier version. I was thinking about reverting it but didn't have enough visual aides.

U/HH-60 CE "Embrace The Suck, Phantoms!!!" "I work for Pedro!" Kris

  • Member since
    August, 2004
  • From: Maryland
Posted by Chief Snake on Thursday, August 09, 2007 8:20 AM

The odd looking Huey is the test platform for the AH-56 weapons systems. It may or may not be the third NUH-1B that is "missing", but is likely the NUH-1M airframe 63-8684.

 

edit) that is the NUH-1M. There are two lights on the bottom of UH-1C/M airframes, one is a search light the other a landing light. The UH-1B airframe did not have both of them, only the forward landing light. In the picture you can see the search light under the left mid-section of the aircraft so it's 63-8684. 

 

Chief Snake 

  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Thursday, August 09, 2007 7:41 AM

Jon,

  Glad you like 'em. Thanks for the input on the half TOW bird!  I basically thought what you said, but you know th TOW's history better than I.  So, 3554 got the anti-strella kit?  I have seen pics of a TOW bird with and without the kit.  Did one have it and one not?  Any other way you can tell it's 3554?  Man, I can't believe we were in that bird just a few weeks back.   I love history!

     Ray
 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Thursday, August 09, 2007 5:57 AM

Ray,

Bow [bow]

You are incredible!  I've never seen either of those shots!  Here's my theory.  The first shot there, if you had the ability to pan up, I bet you'd find that roof-mounted TOW sight we were talking about earlier.  That's definitely a chunker nose on it too.  Early one at that. The caps over the TOW tubes were probably just aerodynamic fairings that popped off when the missile launched.  Either that, or they are just mock tubes.  I've seen similar caps on the twin pods that the earliest Apache mockup and an AH-1G carried.  

As for the second shot, that looks to me like its 60-3554 in action!  One of the things I'm hoping to do is get into NARA's film collection.  The TOW teams filmed EVERY TOW launch they fired.  That film's gotta be somewhere!   I'll search NARA if you'll search the USAAVNM archives!

Andy,

Madman?  Well... yeah, probably.  But I have a hell of a lot of fun that way!  I'm gonna convert that SH-2F to an HC-2 UH-2A in full camo.  Either that, or I'll build it as Clyde Lassen's Medal of Honor UH-2A from HC-7.  Either way, I'll be doing up the masters for an A model conversion!

Jon
 

"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Modeling anything with "MARINES" on the side.
Posted by AH1Wsnake on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 11:58 PM
 Cobrahistorian wrote:

I just snagged a Heller N model and a Revell Seasprite in one lot.  Can't beat that with a stick!  Maybe my craving for both aircraft will be sated for a while now...

 

 

 

naaaaaaaaah!

 

Jon 

Jon, you're a madman!!! Now leave some for the rest of us Wink [;)]

Andy

 

 

"There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and those who have met them in battle. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion."
  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 11:01 PM

Jon,

  PLEASE HELP!  What the heck is going on with this TOW bird!?

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket


I  found this in a helo weapons article from the museum.  Where's the chin mounted sight?  What's up with the nose?  It looks like this bird used to carry a thumper, but the bracing is all wrong.  there is only a single brace in the chin instead of the usual three.  Could there be a sight higher up that the pic doesn't show?  Did the missiles stick out of the tubes when they were loaded?  Most pictures I have seen show three holes not what appear to be three missile nosecones.  Please explain these conundrums!  Thanks in advance!

    Ray 

Edit:

  Dang, Jon, i found another one.  What do you make of this pic?:

[img]http://Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket[

I t looks like the only pic of one of the original TOW birds firing I have ever seen!  Cammo, anti-strella, the missile in th edge of the frame, the whole nine yards!  Are you as excited as I am to see this one?

  Here's a closeup of the bird so you can judge for yourself:

[img]http://Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket" border="0" /> 

  • Member since
    July, 2007
  • From: Miami, FL
Posted by leadfooterm535i on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 7:41 AM

that's cool, but I only build 1/72 scale

U/HH-60 CE "Embrace The Suck, Phantoms!!!" "I work for Pedro!" Kris

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 7:36 AM

It comes with 20th SOS markings, but I'm gonna build it as a current Marine bird, and yes, it is 48th scale.

Jon

"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
    July, 2007
  • From: Miami, FL
Posted by leadfooterm535i on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 5:17 AM
which markings does the Heller kit have? and isn't it 1/48 scale?

U/HH-60 CE "Embrace The Suck, Phantoms!!!" "I work for Pedro!" Kris

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Aaaaah.... Alpha Apaches... A beautiful thing!
Posted by Cobrahistorian on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 9:27 PM

I just snagged a Heller N model and a Revell Seasprite in one lot.  Can't beat that with a stick!  Maybe my craving for both aircraft will be sated for a while now...

 

 

 

naaaaaaaaah!

 

Jon 

"1-6 is in hot"
  • Member since
    February, 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 8:21 PM
Check Heller out for the UH-1N kit, it's the same as the Italeri one, but with different decals. Last I looked Squadron had them in stock
  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 7:02 PM

Randie,

  That's a great site.  I found it a while back and couldn't believe how many detailed M134 pics they had.  Thanks for posting it!

              Ray

  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: Oklahoma
Posted by chopperfan on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 4:10 PM

I know this isn't exactly what is being covered here but, for you "detail nuts", I thought you might like this. Check out the videos, too.

Not all Hueys but interesting anyway. 

Randie [C):-)]Agape Models Without them? The men on the ground would have to work a lot harder. You can help. Please keep 'em flying! http://www.airtanker.com/
  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: Oklahoma
Posted by chopperfan on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 3:30 PM

Leadfoot. Drop me a line. Off board.

Randie [C):-)]Agape Models Without them? The men on the ground would have to work a lot harder. You can help. Please keep 'em flying! http://www.airtanker.com/
  • Member since
    July, 2007
  • From: Miami, FL
Posted by leadfooterm535i on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 12:20 PM

I'll be looking for that book. I just went looking for a UH-1N kit. Are people nuts or what? Ebay postings had the Italeri kit from $19 and up. Some people straight out ask for $20 just for the shipping. I get alot of things through Ebay, but that's just sick. It's not even about getting bargains anymore, now it's hope you can find something without getting ripped off. I sell things on Ebay once in a while. sure, make money, but to straight up hijack people? whatever!!!

U/HH-60 CE "Embrace The Suck, Phantoms!!!" "I work for Pedro!" Kris

  • Member since
    July, 2007
Posted by KrazyCat on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 10:11 AM

Ray,

 

I found the 20th SOS UH-1N pics a couple of Years ago on the net-at that time there was a 20th SOS home page (Vietnam era, not pos-Vietnam 20th SOS). Unfortunately that site is gone :( There are a couple of good images of 20th SOS UH-1Ns in Squadron/Signal UH-1 Huey Gunships Walk Around, but that's about it! But, there is hope-in September Wayne Mutza will publish The History of 20th SOS Green Hornets (Schiffer books) so we can hope for some cool pics of Vietnam UH-1Ns.

 

Yes, 20th SOS started replacing UH-1F/P models with UH-1N around November 1970 and would fully replace UH-1F/P with UH-1N in 1971.

 

Ray, though some HA(L)-3 birds sported both, the door mounted .50 cal and minigun, it was more common for their UH-1s to have M21 subsystem and door mounted M60 on the left side and a ''heavy'' door gun/M158 on the right-lead bird would usually have the .50 cal and trail bird would have the mini mounted in the right door.

 

Marko 

  • Member since
    July, 2007
  • From: Miami, FL
Posted by leadfooterm535i on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 8:55 AM
SWEEEEET! great now I gotta go find a kit. I hope I don't ended up having to go fight for one on ebay.

U/HH-60 CE "Embrace The Suck, Phantoms!!!" "I work for Pedro!" Kris

  • Member since
    February, 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 8:47 AM
Yes, AF "N" models did serve in Veitnam, USMC "N" models did not
  • Member since
    July, 2007
  • From: Miami, FL
Posted by leadfooterm535i on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 8:01 AM

WHOOOAH!!!!  So is it confirmed that UH-1Ns did see service with the 20th SOS in Vietnam. I had yet to see any confirmation of this, just vague mentions on the 20th replacing their Fs with Ns and one picture of a UH-1N sitting in revetment. If this is a confirmation, let me know, because that means I need to get my hands on a 1/72 scale model, and more research for markings.

that first picture of the Sealwolves bird, can't get past how much the blades are flexing.

U/HH-60 CE "Embrace The Suck, Phantoms!!!" "I work for Pedro!" Kris

  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 8:00 AM

Marko,

  Good stuff!  Where'd you find the 20th SOS UH-1N pics? 65-09476 started life as a UH-1C in 1966 and served in the states (Dugway, Ft. Sill, Ft. Ord, and Ft. Belvoir) before serving in Vietnam with the 336th AHC from March 69-March of 70.  She finished her VN duty with 3rd Squadron HA(L)-3.  I have come to the conclusion that the minigun/50cal setup with M158 rocket pods was normal in HA(L)-3.  However, it is unusual relative to Army Hueys.

      Ray

  • Member since
    July, 2007
Posted by KrazyCat on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 7:32 AM

Ray,

 

it's nice to see some images of often neglected details of Huey! Way to go :) But, to keep in spirit with the unusual...

 

First a couple of pics of HA(L)-3 UH-1M Seawolf 314 Army serial No. 65-09476 in 1971. It was armed with two M158 seven shot rocket launchers, a M2HB .50 Cal MG in the right door and a minigun in the left door. Also note the smilies on stores mount dust covers :)

 

 

 

 

Another shot of a HA(L)-3 Huey with ''Nighthawk'' Starlight Scope/Xenon searchlight rig:

 

 

Here's an interesting Army UH-1C in service with 116th AHC in 1968. It was fitted as a ''Smoke Ship''. Note the oil bladder under the seats and a door mounted minigun for heavy fire suppression-neccessary when flying those dangerous low & slow Smokey missions.

 

 

 

 

The last two photos show a USAF UH-1N of the 20th SOS ''Green Hornets'' in 1971. I know those M93 door mounted minis were standard on USAF gunship Hueys in Vietnam, but what is perhaps more interesting is the backup/personal weapons displayed in front of the UH-1N. Note the weapon to the left-its a XM174 40mm automatic grenade launcher carried by some gunners for backup if the minigun jammed. XM174s saw limited use during Vietnam war and were most commonly used by the USAF airbase security units.

 

 

Note the armored plate in the chin bubble of this 20th SOS UH-1N:

 

 

I did come across some reference claiming that 20th SOS UH-1N gunships were often equiped with a M93 door mounted minigun subsystem in one door and a XM94 M129 40mm automatic grenade launcher subsystem in the other. Now, all photos of 20th SOS UH-1N gunships I've seen only show M93 in both doors-does anybody have any images of XM94 armed 20th SOS UH-1Ns?

 

Marko 

  • Member since
    February, 2007
Posted by skypirate1 on Monday, August 06, 2007 9:21 PM

You figured right Ray Big Smile [:D] (though i have to confess, even with my nut allergy, i have heard of the Jesus nut and know how important it was) i havnt seen a detailed pic before so thanks for the post Thumbs Up [tup].

Andy.

While the rest of the crew may be in the same predicament, it's almost always the pilot's job to arrive at the crash site first.
  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Monday, August 06, 2007 8:55 PM

I figured someone would want to know what the "Jesus Nut" was.  The correct term is the main rotor retaining nut, but basically if it comes off in flight your going to see your maker!  Here is a pic of one on a B model rotorhead (red arrow).  note the eye in the top for attaching cables and the like.

[img]http://Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

Here;s a closeup of the pic I posted before showing the attachment point:

Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

I guess I had better repost the pic for comparison:

[img]http://Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

  • Member since
    July, 2007
  • From: Miami, FL
Posted by leadfooterm535i on Monday, August 06, 2007 8:51 PM
Ok, I heard the Huey guys always talk about the "jesus nut" on the Huey, and sometimes they would refer to the hardware in the main rotor mast in the Blackhawk as "jesus nut" (even thought there's more than 30 nuts and bolts in there). But, I never thought you could pick up the whole aircraft that way. I guess there was more than 1 reason to call it that.

U/HH-60 CE "Embrace The Suck, Phantoms!!!" "I work for Pedro!" Kris

  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Auburn, Alabama
Posted by rotorwash on Monday, August 06, 2007 8:30 PM

Grandad,

  Thanks, I should have known that!

     Ray
 

  • Member since
    February, 2003
  • From: phoenix
Posted by grandadjohn on Monday, August 06, 2007 8:25 PM
The cable is attached to the mast by the "Jesus" nut

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