Academy the only on to get F-15 right??????

MKelley wrote:

I am not sure on the F-15 but, I have seen and read that Mustang doors will open up on the ground because hydraulic pressure will bleed off and the doors will open because of gravity. When the engine starts up, the hydraulic pressure returns and the doors close. I have seen film clips showing the start up and the doors if open will close pretty soon after the engine starts.

Nailed it in regards to the P-51 gear doors.  So modeling it with the gear doors down isn't wrong.

There is a decent opinion thread on the various 1/48 F-15 kits here:

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=160997&hl=tamiya%20f-15&st=0

Normally the main gear doors are closed on the F-15 except when the gear is cycling.  The primary reason is aerodynamic - to reduce drag and not have the doors out in the wind acting like speed brakes when the gear is extended during flight.  It isn't that uncommon as a design feature.  Just off the top of my head, the RA-5C Vigilante and B-25 Mitchell come to mind as other examples. 

Obviously it is possible for the doors to be opened on the ground for maintenance, etc. so modeling it either way can be correct depending on the context.  I haven't built any F-15's lately, but I do remember that the first generation 1:72 Hasegawa F-15's could be built either way.

Mark

Here's a link to a clearer pic. It's a "-E" model though.

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/michael_block/f-15e_86-188/images/f-15e_86-188_07_of_18.jpg

EDIT: Note that the nose gear door is also closed when the gear is extended

http://data3.primeportal.net/hangar/makarov_aleksey/f-15e/images/f-15e_24_of_39.jpg

It makes sense on the P-51, I suppose it depends on HOW you are modeling it.  Most don't realize that they close.  The pressure bleeding off makes sense though.  I had no idea abuot the F-15 until I looked though.  When I first opened it up, I was figuring it was an academy screwup.  They've done it before.  Can only design a kit as good as references available I guess.

To make the gear doors stand out a bit more though from the rest of the panel lines, I'm deepening the lines, other then that I'll leave it as is.

MKelley;

Remember that the P-51's that have their inner gear door sag & drop is the Merlin engined planes, the earlier Allison engined planes hydraulics held pressure far better then the Merlin engines. As for the F-15's their gear well doors are closed & locked after gear has cycled in either direction but the strut doors are open only when the gear is down, the only time the gear well doors are opened is that if maintance is being performed in just that one well and the others are closed.

Melgyver wrote:

Monogram had it right also.  I haven't built the F-15E, but the A and C are correct with the main gear doors closed.

But monogram didn't get the wings right though. There is supposed to be a seam where the wing meets the fuselage. They got the shape of the wing right though.

fantacmet wrote:

Good to know, glad I saw this before I went further, I was going to putty the wing seams here in just a short bit.  WHEW.

My father was a Eagle Keeper in the AirForce so I know a bit about F-15's I even have a Crew Chiefs manual on the F-15A through F-15D that my father got when he was a crew chief on the 94th TFS Squadron Commanders aircraft. Even has all the locations for the Remove Before Flight flags. And I also suggest investing in the Eduard Big Ed set for the F-15C/D it has alot of good interior and exterior details as well as the canopy masks and etched Remove Before Flight flags.

Not going to invest in the big ed kit for this guy, maybe the next one I do.  Althuogh the locations for the remove before flight tags would be cool, I have some I printed out, I plan on using.  For the most part though I decided this bugger would be OOB.  The hard part right now is going to be masking the natural metal area in the back, finding out where to mask it.  I'm being smart enough to paint the metal and mask it before I glue any of the fins on, LOL. 

Only real issue I've had this this kit that is a biggy is the lack of any kind of locator for attaching the nose to the fuselage, it's just a butt joint.  I've got a couple of layers of superglue as well as a few applications of plastruct weldene, hopefully that will work, but I fear one day I will pick it up by it's nose after it's finished and off it will come.  I have some idea's to make it stonger during the next build of this aircraft.  It's nice enough to build again.

I will be using the turkey feather cans this time around, even though they aren't correct, as the correct ones don't assemble together at all, they don't fit.  Next one I do I'll get some resin pieces.  Probably a resin cockpit as well.

My mext bird is the Academy SU-27UB Flanker C. 

fantacmet wrote:

Not going to invest in the big ed kit for this guy, maybe the next one I do.  Althuogh the locations for the remove before flight tags would be cool, I have some I printed out, I plan on using.  For the most part though I decided this bugger would be OOB.  The hard part right now is going to be masking the natural metal area in the back, finding out where to mask it.  I'm being smart enough to paint the metal and mask it before I glue any of the fins on, LOL.  Only real issue I've had this this kit that is a biggy is the lack of any kind of locator for attaching the nose to the fuselage, it's just a butt joint.  I've got a couple of layers of superglue as well as a few applications of plastruct weldene, hopefully that will work, but I fear one day I will pick it up by it's nose after it's finished and off it will come.  I have some idea's to make it stonger during the next build of this aircraft.  It's nice enough to build again. I will be using the turkey feather cans this time around, even though they aren't correct, as the correct ones don't assemble together at all, they don't fit.  Next one I do I'll get some resin pieces.  Probably a resin cockpit as well. My mext bird is the Academy SU-27UB Flanker C.

I also forgot that Eduard also does the FOD covers for the intakes which will be necessary in a ground maintenance dio. But some of the RBF flag locations are on vents which will need covers made to put over the vents and covers that go over the AOA sensors and the Pitot tubes on the fuselage.

I will be using the turkey feather cans this time around, even though they aren't correct, as the correct ones don't assemble together at all, they don't fit.

fantacmet, the F-15's never had the turkey feathers on the outside of the burner cans. the The turkey feathers were used on signal engine acft to smooth out turbinace. The F-15's engines show all of the nuts, bolts, bridge work and braces on the outside of the augmentors. Good luck on your F-15 and keep us posted on how it comes out. Charlie P.S. I work on the engines for the USAF.

ilovef-4,

I seem to remember the early F-15A's had the turkey feathers and they would "stick" so they were removed on them and subsequent models.  I scratch built a set of "featherless" cans in 1985.  Not at home to check my references.  I do know you can see on the turkey feather hinge brackets on the ring at the base of the cans on the A models.  I have a some pictures of a F-15E in 1992 I'll check to see if the hinges are on it. 

Berny,

 I guess my CRS isn't as bad as I thought and the problem resulted in the move to remove them from the F-15s.  Thanks for your input!

This isn't a very good picture but it will give you an idea of how the linkage and attachment bolts look.

Berny,

Thanks for the "inside" shot.  I can't seem to locate my pictures at the moment but drug out my scratch built 1/48 afterburner cans and took a few shots.  Best I could do with the wife's old digital.  I think there are about 170 pieces per can.  I used the base of the ones in the Monogram F-15C kit and removed the "vanes".  Took the cans from an ECSI F-4 kit reversed them and glued them to the Monogram base and then started adding pieces.   I'll have to build the rest of a F-15 to go with them one of these days!  Heh, heh!

Ilovef-4,

When I was stationed at Nellis AFB the F-15's there had their Turkey Feathers (Circa 1982-1985) about mid-1983 there was a TCTO the had dropped that called for the Feathers to be dropped, the reason I know this is that my roommate was a Jet Mach for the 57th TFWW and he was complaining about the last couple of engines they had just finished had to have this proceedure done ASAP so it was 12 hour shifts for them for a few weeks to get it done for the F-15 fleet there at Nellis