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Better B-17F kit?

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  • Member since
    March, 2010
Better B-17F kit?
Posted by Bocks Suv on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 8:33 AM
I've arranged a paid project to build a 1/48 scale B-17F of "Beats Me!?". I only see kits in 1/48 by Monogram, Revell and Revell Germany. Does anyone here have an opinion or first-hand experience with any of these kits? Any advice before I start will be appreciated. The client isn't interested in P-E, resin, or interior or engine details. I just want a kit that goes together nicely w/o tons of filling and sanding or rescribing panel lines. My extra effort will go into accurate lettering and the base/case. Thanks for any info. He needs the kit in 1/48, so recs on 1/72 kits wont be much help. Thx.
  • Member since
    November, 2004
  • From: Cat Central, NC
Posted by Bronto on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 10:32 AM

The only 1/48 B-17F is the old Revell one.  The Monogram is a G.  The fit on the kit is poor, and details are basic.   Since you mention re-scribing lines, both the Revell F and Monogram G have raised panel lines.

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 1:17 PM

What is the manufacturer and block number of the F model that you want to model?  The F model was the most changed model spanning from being a slightly upgraded model from the E to the chin-turreted F that started the G's.  There are alot of nose configurations possible so check the serial number against Joe Baugher's serial number list to find the manufacturer and block number and look through Bill Koster's nose configurations available at Swanny's website to match what you need.  The Revell F (repopped by RoG) is an early F.  

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 3:23 PM

I didn't realize you wanted a 360th BS bird. The Revell Memphis Belle will work exactly perfect for your need withourt any changes to the nose. Beats Me is an F-25-BO while Memphis Belle is an F-10-BO.  My uncle was a flight engineer for the 427th BS until after 2nd Schweinfurt, was transferred to the Pathfinders, 482nd BG

Sorry, double post.

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    March, 2010
Posted by Bocks Suv on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 3:59 PM

My client told me it was from the 303rd bomb group. His dad was a waist gunner on Beats Me and, thankfully, was sick prior to the fatal mission of the plane. I might just get the Belle and see if I can find any decals or lettering for Beats Me. Another poster said that recessed panel lines aren't an issue due to overlapped on the plane. Now all I need are the upper and lower colors and the arrangement of the splotches I've seen on some pics.  

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 6:44 PM

Yes, the 303rd BG consisted of 4 squadrons:  358th, 359th, 360th, 427th.  Check out the 303rd BG Association website for a lot of good info if you had not done so already.

http://www.303rdbg.com/

And Squadron has a book about the first 300 F models with useage descriptions and photos of each one.  Only it seems that they happen to be out, but Spruebrothers has it:

store.spruebrothers.com/SearchResults.asp

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Wednesday, January 15, 2014 9:38 PM

I looked through my copy of Pride of Seattle and could not find a photo or drawing of Beats Me.

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    March, 2008
  • From: Brunswick OH
Posted by B-17 Guy on Thursday, January 16, 2014 12:23 AM

  • Member since
    March, 2010
Posted by Bocks Suv on Thursday, January 16, 2014 8:28 AM

What about pics of other B-17Fs from that same group?  I mostly need images of the nose glass and guns, and the olive drab paint pattern. Thx again!

  • Member since
    March, 2008
  • From: Brunswick OH
Posted by B-17 Guy on Thursday, January 16, 2014 10:20 AM

What about the OD paint pattern? She would be standard OD over neutral gray. As far as the medium green splotches you mentioned earlier, for one I cant any proof that she even had them, and even if she did carry them your best bet is find a random color profile that shows it because there was no specific pattern for it. It was not a factory paint scheme, it was done at field level by only some of the groups mainly at squadron level.

www.rcgroups.com/.../showthread.php

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, January 16, 2014 4:44 PM

The in flight photo of "Beats Me" above shows what looks to be medium green 42 splotches on the rudder. Another 303rd BG/360th BS bird (damaged beyond repair on the same mission a to which Beats Me was lost) is "Thumper". There is a color profile of that ship in "The Pride of Seattle" book. Also, Superscale did a decal sheet for Thumper a few years back. According to the decal sheet and book, 360th BS Forts had gray squadron codes on the fuselage and a yellow individual aircraft letter on the tail under the serial number.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Thursday, January 16, 2014 11:52 PM

303rd BG color profiles:

www.markstyling.com/303rd_b17s1.htm

Also in the Osprey book, 303rd BG.

Also 303rd BG website for markings:

http://303rdbga.com/aircraft-markings.html

Depending on the timeframe, Beats Me used letter code V, and then J.

http://303rdbga.com/ground-nose.html

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Friday, January 17, 2014 1:04 AM

Stik, the book and decal sheet must be wrong for Thumper as this crash photo looks like yellow, not gray to me.

www.303rdbg.com/c-360-castle.html

http://www.303rdbg.com/pp-41-24579-crash.html

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Friday, January 17, 2014 10:40 AM

Hard to say. That is the problem with interpreting B&W photos. They might be yellow, or they might be a light gray. Without knowing the film type used (red or blue sensitive, dont ask me the names of film types, its been almost 35 years sncee I have used B&W film in a photography class) it is very subjective. But I do recall reading somewhere that many early Bomb Groups used gray for their codes when those were introduced. The 91st  supposedly used yellow to be different/distinctive from others.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Sunday, January 19, 2014 9:27 PM

An interview with Beats Me's first pilot, Col. Louis "Mel" Schulstad:

video.kbtc.org/.../1563724599

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    January, 2014
Posted by Silver on Monday, January 20, 2014 2:13 PM
Build it out of the box and do little of modifications as you go.It sounds like a time line build.Re-scribe panel lines on areas affected in construction .Ask the client on how they want the model to look like.Show the client some examples of your work.I sold a 1/48 revell b-17g in metal Finish and made 800$.my client wanted another project done after that.
  • Member since
    June, 2013
Posted by RobGroot4 on Monday, January 20, 2014 3:21 PM

Try Kitsworld in the UK for decals, they're pretty good and may even have "Beats Me" ones.  If not, you may be able to find something from the same bomb group at least, or they may be able to help with any questions.

Groot

"Firing flares while dumping fuel may ruin your day" SH-60B NATOPS

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 1:06 AM

stikpusher
Hard to say. That is the problem with interpreting B&W photos. They might be yellow, or they might be a light gray. Without knowing the film type used (red or blue sensitive, dont ask me the names of film types, its been almost 35 years sncee I have used B&W film in a photography class) it is very subjective. But I do recall reading somewhere that many early Bomb Groups used gray for their codes when those were introduced. The 91st  supposedly used yellow to be different/distinctive from others.

From my research, the 8th AF directed that groups use the British pattern of squadron id, and yellow was used from the start.  From the 305th, XK-T, "Boom Town", which is a still from Memphis Belle:

http://305thbombgroup.com/305th%20Aircraft%201.html

And the "Twelve O'Clock High" group, the 306th,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B-17f-42-26744-306bg-turleigh.jpg

Researching the 303rd BG archives, it seems the new replacement aircraft were painted with grey letters starting around the March '43 timeframe with the original aircraft getting being repainted starting in May. Looking at the group lead aircraft crew photos which were taken at 20-30 ft away from the aircraft,  you can definitley tell the letters were yellow along with the letter from the fin.  The grey repaints were very roughly spray painted over the white stars. 

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Tuesday, January 21, 2014 1:28 AM

RobGroot4

Try Kitsworld in the UK for decals, they're pretty good and may even have "Beats Me" ones.  If not, you may be able to find something from the same bomb group at least, or they may be able to help with any questions.

Groot

Kitsworld doesn't have one for "Beats Me!" but they have this generic yellow code sheet for the squadron letters and serial numbers.  "Beats Me!" would have to be a custom made decal.

http://store.spruebrothers.com/product_p/ksw148018.htm

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

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