Messerschmitt Bf109 GB Feeler--Official GB thread now up

I have a book that mentions several of his aircraft that I will try to look at later, and also after the war, the man went on to become the commanding general of all Nato air forces in Europe for several more years.

No decals can be found on my part either.

You'd likely either have to  obtain his autobiography, or a  book devoted solely to JG52 history to find something with more meat on the subject.  Google searches are very frustrating with just a short paragraph or even a lone sentence describing him or his unit during this period in question.  I did find this written interview in which he does give several clues that he did participate in that campaign.

http://www.historynet.com/aviation-history-interview-with-world-war-ii-luftwaffe-ace-gunther-rall.htm

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The easiest marking would likely be an aircraft coded with a black '1' when he was made the leader of 8./JG52 on July 25th,1940.   Though without photo proof, this isn't a 100% certainty.

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For what he was flying before his promotion, I can only extrapolate based on artist's works.  There is this painting of his supposed aircraft during the battle of France.  Looks to be a white 4 with the squiggly III gruppen symbol, which would place him with 7th staffel.

There is also this b/w drawing titled as 'Bf109Es of JG52 flown by Gunther Rall during the Battle of Britain in the summer of 1940.'   Assuming the fuselage numbers are white, this would place him with 1st staffel, as there is no gruppen symbol.

Note, that both these artworks do contain Rall's signature.   Whether this means he approves the authenticity of the research, or was simply helping to promote the artists - I've no clue.  If anyone can confirm more, that would be great.

regards,
Jack

Wow! Thank you Jack.

That is fantastic information.  I'll continue to do some research and probably find a book on the JG 52. Maybe I'll need to do some "decal bashing" to come up with the right markings,  or attempt to paint/make my own.

Steve

I just checked the Osprey books on JG 52 and their one on 109D/E aces 1939/41 and there's no mention of Rall in either.

Eagle was talking about doing one of his aircraft as Rall once gave a talk to Eagles unit when he was stationed in Germany. But he has a G-2 and I could find anything on one of those either.

Dang!

Odd thing is, he was made Staffelkapitan of 8/JG 52 in June 1940, so I would have thought there would be at least one image of his plane.

There's got to be something somewhere adout his E. I can find stuff on his G, at least I think it's correct. I certainly don't know as much about it as you guys.  

JG52 as whole, had a rough time during the summer of 1940, so maybe not too much to celebrate with photo ops.  

I've found this bit of detailed history of the unit, but is in German:

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Gliederungen/Jagdgeschwader/JG52.htm

From what google translates, III group (which contains 7th, 8th and 9th staffels) showed only ten victories during the Western campaign, being located on the front from June 9-13, 1940, before being pulled back inside Germany.

July 22nd, they returned to the front, stationing at Coquelles.  July 30, again pulled back after only four victories, while they themselves lost seven and one captured.   That seems to be it, and looking at the list of 8th staffel airfields, they never returned to the channel front.

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This  photo is interesting, though it's of Rall's 109F-4 shot down on the eastern front, November 28th, 1941.   It does support the theory of his Emil being coded with a black one when stationed in Coquelles, France.  Note the gruppe emblem forward of the cockpit, I'm not sure if it was used in 1940.

regards,

Jack

Man there's some good research going on in here!

The 1/32 Trumpeter G-2 comes with Rall's 'Black 2' scheme. He also wrote a book called "my logbook". I looked into getting it a while back but it is extremely expensive and hard to find. One thing about him is none of his planes, that I've seen, were anything but modestly marked. I wonder how many folks rode down in chutes wondering "who was that"?

panzerpilot

One thing about him is none of his planes, that I've seen, were anything but modestly marked. I wonder how many folks rode down in chutes wondering "who was that"?

About 2 yrs ago I almost had a copy of that book for 25 bucks ! I found a copy at an estate sale and almost fell over my self trying to get to the seller, only to be told that it was put out in error and wasnt for sale! I really think someone else had offered more and was coming back with money later. 275 $ is the least Ive seen it for lately.

Doug

Rigidrider

About 2 yrs ago I almost had a copy of that book for 25 bucks ! I found a copy at an estate sale and almost fell over my self trying to get to the seller, only to be told that it was put out in error and wasnt for sale! I really think someone else had offered more and was coming back with money later. 275 $ is the least Ive seen it for lately.

Doug

Yeah it would Joe... Just a tad rich for my blood at this time! LOL...

Just got both of these over the last two days. I got em off of ebay. I had this kit several years ago when I was in Iraq but let it go along with alot of other stuff to "lighten the load" my final trip back to the states. My good buddy Reasoned inspired me after viewing his Bf109 A/B or C. I can't ramember which one it was but I remember the paint scheme of an all metal bird with the top hat on the side of the aircraft.

 Anyhow I got my kit back along with an additional reference:

I dunno if I'll do it or not for the GB as I havent worked with alclad yet.

Sweet kit Mustang. But you sure that was a nmf bird? I thought they were painted in overall RLM 02?

It looked NMF to me but I've only seen internet pics of the decal set. Will let you know by next week when I have the decal set here. Not much research material on this bad boy yet.

 Thanks for the word on the kit brutha!

This is the only reference I can find of Rall's E.

http://www.premiumwooddesigns.com/Messerschmitt_Me_109E_Gunther_Rall_p/fgm109ss.htm

mustang1989

Just got both of these over the last two days. I got em off of ebay. I had this kit several years ago when I was in Iraq but let it go along with alot of other stuff to "lighten the load" my final trip back to the states. My good buddy Reasoned inspired me after viewing his Bf109 A/B or C. I can't ramember which one it was but I remember the paint scheme of an all metal bird with the top hat on the side of the aircraft.

 Anyhow I got my kit back along with an additional reference:

I dunno if I'll do it or not for the GB as I havent worked with alclad yet.

 

Nice finds Joe, looking forward to seeing an early 109 (something just not well represented out there by the modeling companies). My build was the Classic Airframes Bf 109B flown in the Spanish CW by Molders I believe. (EDIT* It was Gunther Lutzow's crate)

That's the one!! Mine being a C, I will try to replicate this anyways. It's just too cool!!

Do you have any pictures / color plate reference for this bird?

Mustang, I have some colour plates of a number of SCW 109's. The plates indicate a dark green colour on top, but the pics of the real thing, all be it B&W appear much lighter, I had always though they were RLM 02. One photo caption says they were delivered in RLM 63 pale grey and then re painted.

Mustang,

    I think I'd like to get in on this. I've never done a GB and I'm currently working on only my second model since getting back into building after many years away. Sounds like a lot of fun and a great way to learn from all you guys.

    Not sure which kit I will build. Lacking experience in knowing the good kits out there so if you guys have any suggestions on a relatively :) pain free build with decent detail I'd be much appreciative! I'd like to stay with 1/48 scale I think and I like the later versions of the 109 but I'm open to about anything. Thanks very much for any feedback.

Andy

That's another victim into the GB pit of lost souls.

OPP's, sorry, did I say that out loud. What I meant to say was welcome to your first GB Andy. If you want an idea of what to expect, check out Mustangs 190 GB. The most important rules, post pics and have fun.

What's your scale of choice.

rooster513

I think I'd like to get in on this

 Stay away from Eduard if your just easing back into the waters.

Thanks for the info! I'll check em out and let you know which I'll be tackling.

Hey Mustang, count me in. I have a old 1/48 Monogram 109G-10. Ive also have some photoetch parts for the cockpit. This will be my first GB and i cant wait to try this out.

Hey Joe, I came across this Kagero book on the 109C/D from a seller I follow on ebay. Although it focuses on the Polish front it may have some worthwhile photos. Also, it's missing the decal sheet that would normally come with it. Just thought you may want to check it out.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Messerschmitt-Bf109-C-D-in-the-Polish-Campaign-1939-Kagero-Excellent-Book-/321529850467?pt=UK_ToysGames_ModelKits_ModelKits_JN&hash=item4adcac2a63

I plumb forgot to say what my build is gonna be!  Decided to do the Monogram(Revell) G-10. Got new wheels, a PE set and just ordered some decals. I pulled it off the shelf last week and set it out but forgot till I saw jubya70's post yesterday.  This is gonna be epic.

mustang1989

That's the one!! Mine being a C, I will try to replicate this anyways. It's just too cool!!

Do you have any pictures / color plate reference for this bird?

Joe, sorry for the late reply (not always finding time to visit FSM anymore).  I attached the CA 109 paint instructions for the SCW early 109's, just has "silver" for exterior but remember reading that the fabric control surfaces were more RLM 02, (which is what I did) may have read that in the Brett Green build (which I've also attached and recommend reading) http://hsfeatures.com/features04/bf109v4bg_1.htm

jubya70

Hey Mustang, count me in. I have a old 1/48 Monogram 109G-10. Ive also have some photoetch parts for the cockpit. This will be my first GB and i cant wait to try this out.