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Which Bare Metal Foil, or...

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  • Member since
    July 2019
  • From: Vancouver, British Columbia
Which Bare Metal Foil, or...
Posted by Bobstamp on Sunday, February 21, 2021 1:45 PM

I’d like to try using some Bare Metal Foil to brighten up some of the panels on the the Academy F-86F fighter I’m working on, but I’m unsure what to buy, Ultra Bright Chrome by Bare Metal Foil (BMF 004) or New Improved Chrome by Bare Metal Foil (BMF 001).

My goal is not to replicate a factory-new finish on the entire plane, but to make it look likes it’s being used and maintained. I understand that bright foil can be lightly sanded to tone down the reflection, but it might be better to use a foil that’s already “toned down slightly”. Which of the Bare Metal Foils would be best? Or are there other brands to consider?

Alternatively, I wonder if Mr Metal Color Chrome Silver (MC211) wouldn’t work as well. (I use brushes, not an air brush.)

Bob

On the bench: 1/500 Revell S.S. Hope, being built as the hospital ship U.S.S. Repose; Academy 1/72 F-86F Sabre, and a diorama to illustrate the crash of a Beech T-34B Mentor which I survived in 1962 (I'm using Minicraft's 1/48 model of the Mentor). 

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Katy (Houston), TX
Posted by Aggieman on Sunday, February 21, 2021 2:29 PM

I've never used Bare Metal Foil, but have you considered standard kitchen aluminum foil? It can be applied shiny side up or down, which gives you some panel variation, and it can be annealed to give additional tonal variation.  Goes on with something like Micro Metal Foil Adhesive.

  • Member since
    July 2019
  • From: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posted by Bobstamp on Sunday, February 21, 2021 8:38 PM

I understand that household aluminum foil can be used, but it's too thick to conform well to compound curves and to details like rivets and panel lines.

Bob

On the bench: 1/500 Revell S.S. Hope, being built as the hospital ship U.S.S. Repose; Academy 1/72 F-86F Sabre, and a diorama to illustrate the crash of a Beech T-34B Mentor which I survived in 1962 (I'm using Minicraft's 1/48 model of the Mentor). 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Monday, February 22, 2021 1:23 PM

One of the neat things about Alclad Aluminum is that they have several aluminum colors for about any grade of weathering you want.  I think what would be best for you is what they call Airframe Aluminum or just plain Aluminum.  Their polished aluminum is too polished- like a mirror- and their white aluminum is too weathered.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    July 2019
  • From: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posted by Bobstamp on Monday, February 22, 2021 3:55 PM

Don Stauffer
One of the neat things about Alclad Aluminum is that they have several aluminum colors for about any grade of weathering you want.  I think what would be best for you is what they call Airframe Aluminum or just plain Aluminum.  Their polished aluminum is too polished- like a mirror- and their white aluminum is too weathered.

It appears that Alclad paints are designed for airbrushing, but I don't use an airbrush. I thought Bare Metal foil might be the ticket for smooth, shiny finishes, but so far the few responses to this thread don't seem to favour foil, even though it can help produce very realistic models, if all of the photos and comments I've seen are any guide.

Bob

 

On the bench: 1/500 Revell S.S. Hope, being built as the hospital ship U.S.S. Repose; Academy 1/72 F-86F Sabre, and a diorama to illustrate the crash of a Beech T-34B Mentor which I survived in 1962 (I'm using Minicraft's 1/48 model of the Mentor). 

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Monday, February 22, 2021 4:11 PM

Foiling is very tedious but if done right you will have a fantastic finish. I forgot who foiled several planes here on this FSM site and did a heck of a job.

I'm pretty happy with Alclad and AK Extreme Metals but like you said one  needs an air brush to apply them. I'm working on this F84 shot in Alclad Polished Aluminum but will eventually get other shades .

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    September 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, February 22, 2021 4:23 PM

It's something that takes a lot of practice, like most skills, but looks good.

Kitchen foil- you need to buy the cheapest thinnest you can find and it's not as good looking. I use it for scale panel edges and battle damage. 

Yes, Alclad is an airbrush product.

 

Bill

 Modeling is an excuse to buy books.

 

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Monday, February 22, 2021 4:29 PM

Foiling an entire model sounds like it would be extremely difficult and frustrating.  The few things I've used BMF for (like making a patch that looks like a BLOS antenna radome on an F-16 tail) have been a PITA to do right, and I covered those with paint afterward so they didn't have to be absolutely perfect.

Gonna have to give another vote for airbrushing Alclad.  I know you don't currently use an airbrush, but you might think about starting.  I'm currently trying out a new basecoat for Alclad, which is MRP 2K Black.  Takes about a week to fully harden, but it has a mirror shine to it with no polishing needed.  We'll see how it looks when Alclad goes over the top of it.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Monday, February 22, 2021 4:35 PM

Eagle

I use plain Testors black gloss enamel and if properly thinned and shot you end up with a smooth black coat and Alclad can be shot over the next day.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Monday, February 22, 2021 7:38 PM

PJ, is that what you used for the basecoat on your F-84?  Did you say you polished the base coat with Novus afterward to get the smoother finish?

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Monday, February 22, 2021 9:52 PM

Yes I polished it with Novus just for the heck of it but it really didn’t need it. The Novus will get rid of any orange peel that may pop up. I heavily thin the enamel which sprays out much smoother and when dry it requires very little if any polishing.

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    August 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Monday, February 22, 2021 10:16 PM

PJ - you're probably thinking of Johnny K, he's done several.

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Monday, February 22, 2021 11:30 PM

B

goldhammer

PJ - you're probably thinking of Johnny K, he's done several.

 

Yes I think that’s him. His foiling is superb. 

 

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    June 2017
Posted by UnwaryPaladin on Tuesday, February 23, 2021 5:38 AM

No airbrush, no problem. My go-to aluminums are the Tamiya rattle can varients, Alclads can get expensive, 

  • Member since
    June 2017
Posted by UnwaryPaladin on Tuesday, February 23, 2021 5:41 AM

And I will add that you can't beat the look of a foiled aircraft. I've got a Monogram F-84F Thunderstreak lined up just for that purpose! Even so, I think I will still paint some of the areas that are difficult to foil, i.e., the drop tanks.

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Katy (Houston), TX
Posted by Aggieman on Tuesday, February 23, 2021 8:03 AM

While I much prefer paint such as Alclad or AK Interactive for metallic finishes, I have completed two builds using standard kitchen foil:

Academy 1/144 B-47E Stratojet

Italeri 1/72 B-58A Hustler

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Tuesday, February 23, 2021 9:08 AM

UnwaryPaladin

No airbrush, no problem. My go-to aluminums are the Tamiya rattle can varients, Alclads can get expensive, 

 

While the bottles look expensive, since it goes on so thin I find I get four or five models per bottle.  So I find it not that expensive compared to cost of kit.  Now, I find Alclad must be put down in one thin coat on a perfect base coat of something, so I believe I spend more money on paint getting that perfect gloss black finish than I spend on the Alclad.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

  • Member since
    October 2019
  • From: New Braunfels, Texas
Posted by Tanker-Builder on Tuesday, February 23, 2021 9:21 AM

Hi;

   Now here is something I can relate too. I use the Standard Chrome foil when I can get it. I use the two you mentioned for detail spots. Mostly I make my own. Yes, I have an airbrush. I just don't have a safe place to use it with animals and personal allergies in this house.

     As you know this past week TEXAS weather didn't allow Airbrush work in the Garage! I usually make my own. I use the three Major brands known here. Hill Country Fare, H.E.B., Wal-Mart . I use the Micro brand adhesive and spray it on thinned just very slightly.I spray it in the bathroom, in the shower. That way I can wash down the area after I am finished. House brand foils are always, (or at least it seems that way) Thinner and easier in most ways to work with. And,oh ,the texture difference.

 When done spraying let it set until it turns from Milky white to clear. Now here's the hard part. If you want to keep a lot ( It never seems to be affected by age) You need some material to stick it to that will release it when you want some.

    I personally go to the Touristy stores or Truck stops( I've got two in the area!) And buy offensive( To Me) bumper stickers. I peel the sticker off and throw it away. I keep the paper pieces that it was attached to. ( this thickness is hard to get from a sign company. and I have NEVER seen it at the office stores.) Then Take your Home-Made foil and burnish it down smoothly and creaseless,and bubble free. Then Put the pieces in a dark spot or in a heavy Book.( The U.S.Fleet-W.W.1-1945) comes to mind. It's a heavy book

     I use a  black file folder. In a place where you would lay books on. Why? It keeps it perfectly flat and safe. Take out a sheet and use what you want, using a BRAND NEW X-Acto style, Number 11, knife and only cut the foil. Apply to the plane. When finished with that back piece put it away to be covered by foil again later. Yes, It's work.But Know this. I rarely run out of the stuff that I have ready made for whatever my project. I DO buy Foil-Chrome brand, Molotow and Alclad for particular Summer projects. I just like real foil better. And except for planes where you have to clearcoat to protect the Decals, it gets shinier with each gentle cleaning with a soft cotton cloth.( Old Clean T-Shirt material).

   We have an AMTRAK model train at the Museum that I did this to, on all the older ( AMTRAK'S early Years) Train cars. All we do is gently polish them about once a month. Everyone always comments on the realistic shine the way the silvery Ribbed cars catch the light as they move around the Layout. I SPECIFICALLY - DID NOT, Clearcoat them.

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, February 23, 2021 11:29 AM

Bob: You might want to try the Matte Aluminum foil BMF-011. The chrome I believe is made for the chrome on car models and will give you a mirror bright finish. I'm not sure about how well sanding the foil to remove some the shine will work but it's worth a shot. 

If you have a local hobby shop that stocks it I think they put a sticker on the outside of the envelope that the foil comes in that shows how shiny it is. Or just buy a couple of sheets of different types (they're not that expensive) and try them out on a 'paint mule' old model to see what you like best before investing in several sheets of what you mean to use.  

 

TB: Will wax paper not work instead buying a pile of expensive bumper stickers? 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by TheMongoose on Tuesday, February 23, 2021 11:59 AM

Gamera

Bob: You might want to try the Matte Aluminum foil BMF-011. The chrome I believe is made for the chrome on car models and will give you a mirror bright finish. I'm not sure about how well sanding the foil to remove some the shine will work but it's worth a shot. 

If you have a local hobby shop that stocks it I think they put a sticker on the outside of the envelope that the foil comes in that shows how shiny it is. Or just buy a couple of sheets of different types (they're not that expensive) and try them out on a 'paint mule' old model to see what you like best before investing in several sheets of what you mean to use.  

 

TB: Will wax paper not work instead buying a pile of expensive bumper stickers? 

 

i'll 2nd the bmf. It's good  to start there and see how you like working with it before you go to kitchen foil. both mediums will show off rivets and fine detail with no problem. Look at some color pics of the period and weathering state you want to depict then follow gammera's advice if you have a LHS you can go to. 
I practice with BMF on a 1/72nd scale mustang. Then when I went to bigger 1/32 scale plans I started spraying adhesive on kitchen foil. That the BMF gets very expensive. The key is to have quite a few Cotton swabs and toothpicks. Wear gloves because the BMF loses the adhesive quickly. You cut a piece out roughly the size you want on the model, apply it gently with your fingers, push it down with the cotton swab and then burnish it with a toothpick. If you've got questions feel free to send me a message or throw it on here and I'll check back.

In the pattern: a dual build of my KittyHawk F-5's.

  • Member since
    June 2017
Posted by UnwaryPaladin on Wednesday, February 24, 2021 5:49 AM

Don Stauffer

 

 
UnwaryPaladin

No airbrush, no problem. My go-to aluminums are the Tamiya rattle can varients, Alclads can get expensive, 

 

 

 

While the bottles look expensive, since it goes on so thin I find I get four or five models per bottle.  So I find it not that expensive compared to cost of kit.  Now, I find Alclad must be put down in one thin coat on a perfect base coat of something, so I believe I spend more money on paint getting that perfect gloss black finish than I spend on the Alclad.

 

 

Don, what base coat do you use with the Alclad? Do you have to use their brand? Can you use an acrylic?

Joe

  • Member since
    April 2020
Posted by Eaglecash867 on Wednesday, February 24, 2021 8:53 AM

I'll throw my two cents in on that to say that you should use a gloss black base coat of pretty much any kind except for the one made by Alclad.  I tried theirs when I first started using Alclad, and it never cured...3 weeks passed and it was still extremely tacky.  Other members here have reported the same issues with it.  I have been using Tamiya X-1 thinned with 99% Isopropyl Alcohol for a while with good results.  I'm trying MRP Black 2K to see if I can get an even smoother, glossier finish.  It takes about 3 days to a week to fully harden, but its predictable, and has a rock-hard, glass-like, gloss black finish with no special surface prep needed beyond what you normally do before painting.  Its a 2 part paint that you mix 50/50 paint/hardener ratio.  I thought the Tamiya X-1 was glossy, but this stuff blows it right out of the water...no contest.

"You can have my illegal fireworks when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers...which are...over there somewhere."

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: Twin Cities of Minnesota
Posted by Don Stauffer on Wednesday, February 24, 2021 1:26 PM

UnwaryPaladin

 

 
Don Stauffer

 

 
UnwaryPaladin

No airbrush, no problem. My go-to aluminums are the Tamiya rattle can varients, Alclads can get expensive, 

 

 

 

While the bottles look expensive, since it goes on so thin I find I get four or five models per bottle.  So I find it not that expensive compared to cost of kit.  Now, I find Alclad must be put down in one thin coat on a perfect base coat of something, so I believe I spend more money on paint getting that perfect gloss black finish than I spend on the Alclad.

 

 

 

 

Don, what base coat do you use with the Alclad? Do you have to use their brand? Can you use an acrylic?

Joe

 

No, and I don't like the Alclad black.  I use either Testors Gloss Black enamel or the Tamiya Gloss Black lacquer.  I use the Tamiya from the spray cans if I am in a hurry, but I have better control, of course, with the enamel in an airbrush if I want the best- especially for the polished aluminum where you need a perfect base coat.

 

Don Stauffer in Minnesota

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