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WW I and biplane rigging

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  • Member since
    June, 2003
WW I and biplane rigging
Posted by markgloper on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 4:36 PM

I've purchased a 1/32 scale SPAD and a 1/48 Scale Grumman Duck.  Is there a convention as to the diameter of rigging that is used on 1/32 and 1/48 scale kits?

Also, are turnbuckles used at the attachment points? And, if so, any leads on a company that produces them or suggestions on making them.

Thanks for any information you can provide. 

 

 

  • Member since
    August, 2007
  • From: Carrollton, Texas
Posted by BraniffBuff on Wednesday, February 11, 2009 7:00 PM
Can't help with rigging diameter, but yes, turnbuckles were used on the SPAD; don't know about the Duck, but I'd guess yes. A company called Bob's Buckles makes some outstanding small turnbuckles suitable for the larger scales: http://www.bobsbuckles.co.uk/

Also see here: http://flickr.com/photos/landoni/sets/72157604984202028/
Michael McMurtrey IPMS-USA #1746 Carrollton, TX
  • Member since
    January, 2005
  • From: Cave City, KY
Posted by Watchmann on Thursday, February 12, 2009 8:43 AM

  • Member since
    May, 2008
  • From: Lansing, MI
Posted by MIflyer on Thursday, February 12, 2009 10:49 AM

Most 1930s biplanes hide the bulk of the turnbuckles, usually only 1/2 to 1 inch of the very end is visible:

Grumman F3F

 

Waco YMF-5

These turnbuckles are more similar to what you'd find on a sailboat, than the large WWI turnbuckles with a loop on the end.

Another vote for Bob's Buckles, by the way. Thumbs Up [tup] He's a member here, if you have questions about his product you could send him a PM.

Kevin

Kevin Johnson    Belleville, Michigan USA

On the bench: 1/72 Fujimi D4Y3 "Judy"

  • Member since
    April, 2005
  • From: Baton Rouge, LA
Posted by T_Terrific on Thursday, February 12, 2009 12:59 PM

Actually, regarding the SPAD, there is something you should take note of.

There is a common error that both model makers and builders alike commonly make, and that is assuming that all its' rigging is the same.

If you find any good historical photo of a SPAD, notice that the main span-wise cross-bracing for the wings is not the same gauge as the rigging in the struts, etc.

This is because the interplane supports are just that, not interplane struts as many assume.

They are cable supports for the main cross cables, not the typical lighter-gauge rigging wires, that gave the SPAD it's ability to outdive any enemy machine without breaking up.

For an example, see this link:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/landoni/2874498452/

For my 1/32 and 1/28th SPAD builds, I am contemplating using picture hanging wire for these, as it has a nice braided-cable look, and heavy thread or thin wire for the rest.

For the duck, I would use a metallic-colored sewing thread that I can get at Wal-Mart.

Tom T Cowboy [C):-)]

“Failure is the opportunity to begin again more intelligently.”-Henry Ford

"Except in the fundamentals, think and let think"- J. Wesley

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  • Member since
    June, 2003
Posted by markgloper on Thursday, February 12, 2009 5:09 PM
Thanks for the information.
  • Member since
    June, 2003
Posted by markgloper on Thursday, February 12, 2009 5:15 PM
Thank you for the website.
  • Member since
    June, 2003
Posted by markgloper on Thursday, February 12, 2009 5:17 PM
Thanks for the reminder and the site. I had heard somewhere about braided wire but had forgotten about it.
  • Member since
    June, 2003
Posted by markgloper on Monday, February 23, 2009 10:03 AM
Thanks for the pictures of the F3F's rigging.  Very Helpful
  • Member since
    June, 2003
Posted by markgloper on Monday, February 23, 2009 10:12 AM

I am interested in Bob's Buckles but do not understand what a "PM" is or how to send him one.

Thanks for any assistance you can provide. 

 

  • Member since
    February, 2003
  • From: Northern Kentucky
Posted by Ashley on Monday, February 23, 2009 11:38 AM

To expand a little on biplane rigging, these external bracing wires on a lot of early airplanes were stranded cable, and therefore, round in section. These were indeed tightened by using turnbuckles.

When you get into higher performance, externally braced airplanes like the F3F, GeeBee, P-6 and the like, a streamlined wire is used. This starts as a round rod, usually stainless steel that is rolled flat. The ends remain round and are differentially threaded, that is, left hand threads on one end and right hand on the other. A clevis fitting is threaded on the end which pins to some part of the structure like the wing spar of a tab on the fuselage. Twisting the rod one way tightens the rod, the other way loosens it. You can really see the rod section and threads to good advantage on Mlflyer's pic of the Waco upper wing/Istrut juncture. This makes it a little easier to model, as a hole in the wing will suffice and you don't usually have to model the clevis fitting.

Oh, and they sometimes mix and match, with streamline wires on the wings and round wires on the tail. Gotta check those references!

Have you flown a Ford lately?

  • Member since
    September, 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Monday, February 23, 2009 11:51 AM
 markgloper wrote:

I am interested in Bob's Buckles but do not understand what a "PM" is or how to send him one.

Thanks for any assistance you can provide. 

 

Hi, Mark, "PM" is a private message.  In this forum, if the person you want to send a private message to a person who has posted in a thread, then you can click the PM button at the bottom of his post, and the window to write and send the message should open, defaulting that person's address info.

If the person isn't in this forum, my forum-specific definition doesn't hold, and a private message would just be an email to the recipient.

Hope that helps!

Regards,

Brad

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Humor/th_MonogramMafia.jpg?t=1296972087

  • Member since
    September, 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Monday, February 23, 2009 11:54 AM

While we're talking about bracing wires, does anyone happen to know what the acronym "raf" stood for in the description of the reinforcing cable used on the F3F and other US late generation biplanes?  I've seen them referred to as "raf wires".  Searching for the term has required a lot of disambiguation from the more well-known acronym RAF.

Regards,

Brad

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/HansvonHammer/Humor/th_MonogramMafia.jpg?t=1296972087

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