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KB-50 in 1/72? Anyone?

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  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: San Antonio
KB-50 in 1/72? Anyone?
Posted by paintsniffer on Monday, January 18, 2010 10:59 AM

I have probably the strangest collection building far down my build order. I have almost everything that has ever served in an air to air refueling role in free world.. I have a couple KC-135 Variants, a Handley Page Victor, and recently, I came into a KC-97.. Anyway, that really only leaves two voids I think I should be able to fill... A KC-130.. Which I can probably find a resin mod for an Italeri kit, and a KB-50.

Is there a 1/72 KB-50 kit? Or a mod to a 1/72 B-29?

I know a VC-10 and a Tristar in 1/72 with the refueling kit are almost certainly a pipe dream, so I won't even ask.

Excuse me.. Is that an Uzi?

  • Member since
    January 2015
  • From: Katy, TX
Posted by Aggieman on Monday, January 18, 2010 11:13 AM

I found a B-50 at e-Hobbyland.com - would require some modification (I'm guessing) to convert it to an actual KB-50.

http://www.e-hobbyland.com/acbsu1scplai.html

 

  • Member since
    September 2015
  • From: The Redwood Empire
Posted by Aaronw on Monday, January 18, 2010 11:53 AM

Didn't Academy do one or at least one of the double fuselage B-29 based aircraft, possibly the airliner version?

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Neenah, WI
Posted by HawkeyeHobbies on Monday, January 18, 2010 12:03 PM

If you can be patient there is a conversion in the works. That's all I can say. If I told you more, I'd have to shoot both of us.

Gerald "Hawkeye" Voigt

http://hawkeyes-squawkbox.com/

 

 

"Its not the workbench that makes the model, it is the modeler at the workbench."

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Monday, January 18, 2010 1:35 PM

Academy did the KB-29, 1/72 kit no. 2113.

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: 40 klicks east of the Gateway
Posted by yardbird78 on Monday, January 18, 2010 3:57 PM

Academy also did a 1/72 KB-50, although I don't know the kit # right off hand.  A friend of mine is a retired Air Force 3 star that started his career in 1947 as an enlisted boomer on KB-29s.  He has told me some horror stories of the USAF's development of air refueling.  Their first attempts used a long hose dangling behind the tanker and a long cable with a grappling hook behind the receiver.  The receiver flew formation to the left and slightly behind the tanker, then moved up and to the right, deliberately dragging the grappling hook over the hose behind the tanker and snagging it.  Once snagged, the cable was reeled in and connected to the receiver.  This was an EXTREMELY dangerous way to do things.  They, essentially had a deliberate, mid-air collision.  The next step was Boeing's "flying boom" on the KB-29.  A few of the KB-50s had the flying boom, but most used the British or US Navy style, "probe & drogue" configuration.  Some of the KB-50s had just the centerline hose, while a lot of them also had a pod with hose under each outer wing.  The KB-50 was the same basic airframe as the KB-29 with larger engines, a six foot fuselage plug just behind the wing, a larger vertical tail and a lighter weight, but stonger wing, 

Academy has made a KC-97G with 750 gallon external fuel tanks and a KC-97L with a single J-47 jet engine under each wing in place of the tanks.  The G was used primarily by the active duty USAF and the L was used by the Guard and Reserve.

Darwin, O.F.  Alien

 ,,

The B-52 and me, we have grown old, gray and overweight together.

  • Member since
    March 2003
Posted by jmcquate on Monday, January 18, 2010 4:34 PM

paintsniffer

I have probably the strangest collection building far down my build order. I have almost everything that has ever served in an air to air refueling role in free world.. I have a couple KC-135 Variants, a Handley Page Victor, and recently, I came into a KC-97.. Anyway, that really only leaves two voids I think I should be able to fill... A KC-130.. Which I can probably find a resin mod for an Italeri kit, and a KB-50.

Is there a 1/72 KB-50 kit? Or a mod to a 1/72 B-29?

I know a VC-10 and a Tristar in 1/72 with the refueling kit are almost certainly a pipe dream, so I won't even ask.

Don't forget the Navy. They have had two dedicated tanker platforms. The KA-3 and the KA-6. I think the Japanese operate a 757 in the Tanker role too.

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: 40 klicks east of the Gateway
Posted by yardbird78 on Monday, January 18, 2010 6:06 PM

Don't forget the USAF's Boeing KC-10 Extender.  I don't think there are any 1/72 kits of this plane.

Darwin, O.F.  Alien

 ,,

The B-52 and me, we have grown old, gray and overweight together.

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: 40 klicks east of the Gateway
Posted by yardbird78 on Monday, January 18, 2010 6:13 PM

This is a rather lengthy article, but it explains that complicated grapple hook and hose method of air to air refueling.

The designation KB-29M was assigned to 92 B-29s that were converted to aerial tankers using the British-developed hose refuelling system. In addition, 74 B-29 aircraft were converted as receivers for this system under the designation B-29MR. In retrospect, this hose refuelling system was unbelievably awkward and cumbersome, and it is a wonder that it worked at all. That it was so successful is a testament to the courage and ability of all concerned.

The primary goal of the project was to extend the range of the B-29 fleet to make it possible to attack targets in the Soviet Union with nuclear weapons.

The B-29MR conversion was carried out by removing all of the B-29 gun turrets and their associated equipment except the tail turret. On some of the conversions, even the left and right gun sighting blisters were removed and replaced by small ten-inch diameter windows to cut down on the drag. The rear bomb bay was fitted with an extra fuel tank of 2300 gallon capacity, and the forward bomb bay was modified to carry an atomic bomb. In addition, extra rendezvous equipment was installed to aid in the tankers and bombers being able to locate each other. The B-29MR had a refueling nozzle receptor installed on the lower right side of the fuselage, approximately at the location where the lower aft gun turret had been located prior to its removal. The receptor was connected to plumbing that transferred fuel to the gas tank system. A 450-foot cable (known as the hauling line) emerged from the center of the nozzle receptor. This cable was controlled by a hydraulic winch that was operated by a crewman sitting in the tail turret position. The end of the cable held a dish-shaped metal pan equipped with grapnel hooks. The winch operator had no way of seeing what was going on outside his immediate station, and had to rely on guidance by an observer (usually the radar officer) sitting in the tail gunner's position.

Similar changes were made to the KB-29M tanker aircraft. All of the gun turrets were removed, including the tail turret. The bomb bay of the KB-29M was fitted with a separate fuel tank holding 2300 gallons. This tank was also plumbed into the normal aircraft fuel system so that fuel from it could also be transferred to the receiver aircraft. The KB-29M tanker aircraft carried a system of hoses, reels, winches and fuel pumps needed for the transfer of the fuel to the receiver aircraft. A power-driven reel for the refuelling hose was installed in the rear fuselage at the position where the lower aft turret had been located prior to its removal. The KB-29M also had a cable and associated winch (known as the contact line) that was used to assist in the setup of the connection between the two aircraft.

During the refuelling operation, the tanker aircraft flew in formation slightly above, to the left, and to the rear of the receiver aircraft. In order to initiate the contact, the tanker aircraft let out about 300 feet of contact line behind it. There was a 50-pound weight at the end of the contact line cable, so it hung almost straight down from the tanker. At the same time, the receiver aircraft let out about 300 feet of hauling line cable that extended from the refuelling receptacle located underneath the tail on the starboard side. With the grapnel pan at the end of the MR's hauling line, the cable trailed almost straight back from the aircraft. With both lines fully extended, the tanker aircraft would then cross over to the right side of the MR, and the two cables would make contact. The operator in the tail turret of the tanker aircraft would then pull in his contact line cable, and the grapnel hook on the end of the MR's hauling line would ensure that a positive connection was made. The tanker aircraft would pull the contact line all the way into the aircraft. With the end of the MR hauling line cable now in the tanker, the operator removed the grapnel pan from the end of the hauling line and attached the hauling line to the nozzle at the end of the refueling hose. The operator in the tanker aircraft then began to let out the hose, and at the same time the winch operator in the MR receiving aircraft started to pull in the hauling line. The hose and nozzle would be pulled around a 300-foot curve trailing behind the two aircraft, the reel unwinding as the hose extended. Once the hose nozzle reached the MR, it was mated with the nozzle receptor and locked into place.

While the receiver aircraft hauled in the hose, there was a very critical sequence in which if not followed correctly could---and sometimes did---result in loss of the hose.  At the point when the hose came "coming 'round the bend"---the winching had to be accelerated to keep the hose from whipping.  If severe whipping did occur, the entire hose system usually had to be jettisoned.

After the nozzle of the hose was firmly seated in the receptacle of the MR aircraft and locked, a signal was sent to the tanker aircraft (which was now above and behind the receiver) that contact had been made and that fuel could now be transferred. Fuel then flowed via gravity from tanker to receiver aircraft. Incoming fuel was usually directed into the 2300-gallon rear-fuselage tank, but it could also be directed into the other tanks in the regular fuel system.

Once the fuel transfer was complete, the MR operator unlocked the nozzle and started letting out his hauling line cable. The tanker aircraft reeled in the entire length of hose, and the operator in the tanker aircraft disconnected the MR's hauling line from the hose and reattached the grapnel pan. The pan and hauling cable were then pulled back into the MR aircraft.  

The feasibility of the system was first demonstrated on March 28, 1948 by two converted B-29s. Water rather than fuel was transferred during this test, but full fuel-flow trials were made in May of 1948. Encouraged by this success, the Air Force then ordered conversion of 92 B-29s to serve as tankers using this system under the designation KB-29M. Boeing's Wichita Plant 2 was reopened in 1948 to handle this conversion. As part of the program, another 74 B-29s were modified as receiver aircraft for the KB-29M tankers. Initially, the designation B-29L had been reserved for this version, but they were designated B-29MR instead.

In the U.S. Air Force, the 509th and 43rd Air Refueling Squadrons were created during the summer of 1948 to operate the KB-29M tankers, although it was almost January of 1949 before both these squadrons were fully manned. Both squadrons operated KB-29M tankers, with the 509th based at Walker AFB, New Mexico while the home field for the 43rd ARefS was Davis-Monthan AFB, Arizona. They practiced inflight refueling with B-50A bombers. During January and February of 1949 this technique was practiced with B-50's named GLOBAL QUEEN, LUCKY LADY II, LONG RANGER and a few others. Between February 26 and March 2, 1949 the B-50A LUCKY LADY II (serial number 46-0010) made the first nonstop flight around the world while being refueled in flight by 8 KB-29M's of the 43rd Air Refueling Squadron. 94 hours were taken for the 23,452-mile journey.

Although the hose refuelling system proved to be feasible, in practice the system had the disadvantage in taking a long time to make the contact and engage the hoses. Once contact was made, the rate of fuel transfer was slow, and the hoses provided a lot of aerodynamic drag which limited the airspeed. Consequently, the hose system was used for only a few years before it was replaced by the Boeing-developed flying boom system.

 

 ,,

The B-52 and me, we have grown old, gray and overweight together.

  • Member since
    February 2003
Posted by bbronov on Sunday, March 14, 2010 6:46 PM

Arrrgggh? Really? Can you at least give some kind of timeline? I'm about a month from having to start work on masters for a conversion project for the Air Mobility Command Museum. I'd save me a headache if I could just buy it rather than manufacture it m'self. 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:04 PM

You will have to get it from E-bay as it is not listed on the Academy website anymore.  You might check with some of the modeling suppliers as one of them might still have one in stock.

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    December 2002
Posted by tyamada on Sunday, March 14, 2010 7:28 PM

paintsniffer

I have probably the strangest collection building far down my build order. I have almost everything that has ever served in an air to air refueling role in free world.. I have a couple KC-135 Variants, a Handley Page Victor, and recently, I came into a KC-97.. Anyway, that really only leaves two voids I think I should be able to fill... A KC-130.. Which I can probably find a resin mod for an Italeri kit, and a KB-50.

Is there a 1/72 KB-50 kit? Or a mod to a 1/72 B-29?

I know a VC-10 and a Tristar in 1/72 with the refueling kit are almost certainly a pipe dream, so I won't even ask.

Do you have a KB-29, Academy made  a 1/72 model with a flying boom. I don't think Academy did a KB-50, however, they did make a B-50D that could be modified to a KB-50.   All the information I can get on the KB-50 is it only had the hose and drogue refueling system.  I can't seem to find one with the flying boom system.

Annigrad has announced a 1/72 KC-10 to be released soon.

Evidently D&B made a 1/72 conversion to make a KB-50.  Here is a link to a 1/72 KB-50 made with a conversion kit. 

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Gal1/801-900/Gal831_KB-50_Hawkey/00.shtm

  • Member since
    April 2009
Posted by gmat on Monday, March 15, 2010 11:19 AM

Academy made two B-50 kits, the B-50D and the RB-50B. Although they had plans fpr a KB-50J, it never appeared. 

There were three different models of the KB-50s. The first was the KB-50, and can easily be identified by a cut off tail cone and having only the two wing refueling pods.  Apparently they were converted from B-50As, RB-50Bs and B-50Ds that were no longer need by the SAC atomic force. This was news to me as I only knew about the KB-50D. The KB-50J was produced from those KB-50s converted to B-50Ds and unconverted B-50Ds. It had the third refueling hose extending from the tail cone and the two J-47 jet engines at the outer wings. 

The KB-50K was converted from TB-50Hs and was equivalent to the KB-50J. 

Best wishes,

Grant

  • Member since
    April 2009
Posted by gmat on Monday, March 15, 2010 11:44 AM

KB-50 photo. Note that it also has the wing fuel tanks.

KB-50Js

 

Best wishes,

Grant

 

  • Member since
    April 2009
Posted by gmat on Monday, March 15, 2010 11:44 AM

KB-50 photo. Note that it also has the wing fuel tanks.

KB-50Js

Photo by E. Kawahara.

Best wishes,

Grant

 

  • Member since
    November 2010
  • From: Lafayette, Indiana
Posted by Son Of Medicine Man on Saturday, November 13, 2010 12:21 PM

Any word yet on the conversion?

Ken

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: North Pole, Alaska
Posted by richs26 on Saturday, November 13, 2010 1:59 PM

I have probably the strangest collection building far down my build order. I have almost everything that has ever served in an air to air refueling role in free world.. I have a couple KC-135 Variants, a Handley Page Victor, and recently, I came into a KC-97.. Anyway, that really only leaves two voids I think I should be able to fill... A KC-130.. Which I can probably find a resin mod for an Italeri kit, and a KB-50.

Is there a 1/72 KB-50 kit? Or a mod to a 1/72 B-29?

I know a VC-10 and a Tristar in 1/72 with the refueling kit are almost certainly a pipe dream, so I won't even ask.

Paint,
If you want the full story on tankers, add the original tanker to your collection, the B-24D that was used in the 1943 experiments to refuel a B-17E.  Check out the books of the Warbird tech series on the B-24 and B-17 for the story.

WIP:  Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 73rd BS B-26, 40-1408, torpedo bomber attempt on Ryujo

Monogram 1/72 B-26 (Snaptite) as 22nd BG B-26, 7-Mile Drome, New Guinea

Minicraft 1/72 B-24D as LB-30, AL-613, "Tough Boy", 28th Composite Group

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: New Port Richey
B-50 in 1/72
Posted by deattilio on Saturday, November 13, 2010 10:38 PM

I had the Academy B-50 in my stash for some time, even acquired the resin, PE and paint masks for her before putting it on ebay to make room for more "to do" projects. I was also a bit intimidated by the amount of NMF I would need to pull off.

If I remember correctly you will need to replace the engines, as the ones in the kit have a 9-cylinder face of the CW-3350 instead of the 7-cylinder P&W-4360.

Good luck

 

WIP:
Trying to get my hobby stuff sorted - just moved and still unpacking.

 

"Gator, Green Catskill....Charlie On Time"
 

 

  • Member since
    November 2010
  • From: Lafayette, Indiana
Posted by Son Of Medicine Man on Saturday, November 13, 2010 11:39 PM

Thank you for the information.  Funny that you mentioned ebay, that is where I found an Academy B-50.  I just purchased it today.  My goal is to convert it to a KB-50J that was used in Vietnam.  I fully agree with the daunting task of the natural metal finish.  I plan to practice on a few F-101B kits before tackling the KB-50J.

 

Ken

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: New Port Richey
B-50 in 1/72
Posted by deattilio on Sunday, November 14, 2010 10:59 AM

The Superfortress is still one of my favorite aircraft, so I scaled down a bit and added Fujimi's 1/144 B-29 to my stash. Slightly less daunting challenge concerning the NMF. I visited the Pima Air Museum couple years ago and snapped some shots of the KB-50 on display there.

 

WIP:
Trying to get my hobby stuff sorted - just moved and still unpacking.

 

"Gator, Green Catskill....Charlie On Time"
 

 

  • Member since
    November 2010
  • From: Lafayette, Indiana
Posted by Son Of Medicine Man on Sunday, November 14, 2010 7:34 PM

Very cool pics!  I am always looking for new material.

Ken

  • Member since
    August 2006
  • From: Neenah, WI
Posted by HawkeyeHobbies on Monday, November 15, 2010 10:16 AM

The conversion for this unfortunately went south when Aerospace Modeler Magazine did. AMM was planning on releasing accessories to allow modelers to build what was featured in their featured articles. The B-50 was to be one of the very first...again it died with the mag. Sad

Gerald "Hawkeye" Voigt

http://hawkeyes-squawkbox.com/

 

 

"Its not the workbench that makes the model, it is the modeler at the workbench."

  • Member since
    January 2009
  • From: San Antonio
Posted by paintsniffer on Monday, November 15, 2010 1:01 PM

I'm just spitballing ideas here.. But could a KB-50 be achieved through the marriage of a KB-29 that apparently exists and some version of a C-97? Might not satisfy the hardcore rivet counters but I am thinking the Engines/wings in the C-97 married to the KB-29 might do the trick.

Excuse me.. Is that an Uzi?

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: 40 klicks east of the Gateway
Posted by yardbird78 on Monday, November 15, 2010 3:14 PM

The B-50 had a 10 foot longer fuselage, a much larger vertical fin, a different end on the front and back of the fuselage.  It all depends on how much accuracy you want or are willing to ignore.

Darwin, O.F.  Alien

 ,,

The B-52 and me, we have grown old, gray and overweight together.

  • Member since
    August 2009
  • From: Central Texas
Posted by viking73 on Tuesday, November 16, 2010 7:39 PM

HawkeyeHobbies

The conversion for this unfortunately went south when Aerospace Modeler Magazine did. AMM was planning on releasing accessories to allow modelers to build what was featured in their featured articles. The B-50 was to be one of the very first...again it died with the mag. Sad

 

Is AMM really dead and gone?  I was hoping it was only temporary and that they'd be back at it soon.  I sure hope so as that was a great magazine, I really enjoyed reading it.  Lots of great articles with some inspiring builds.

Issue #5 dealt with converting a 1/144 Academy B-29 into a KB-50 - don't know if this issue is available anywhere anymore...

-Derek

  • Member since
    April 2009
Posted by gmat on Wednesday, November 17, 2010 2:23 AM

Paintsniffer,

It is best to start with the Academy B-50D or RB-50G kit. Academy use the same sprues for the fuselage for both kits. There is no difference in the basic fuselage between the B-29 and B-50. The main difference is that the B-50 kit has a new tail unit, bombardier window with less frames, different nose gear, flat belly radome, and new wings, engines and paddle blade cuffed props. 

If you already have the B-29 and KC-97L kit, you could swap the wings and engines fairly easily, but the you would still need to scrounge the other B-50 parts. The KC-97 has square tip props, the B-50 has rounded tip props. You would need the J-47 jet pods from the KC-97L kit. 

You would need to do the following to make a KB-50J.

1. make the wing tip refueling pods and pylons.

2. make the tail refueling unit fairing.

3. remove and thin down the tail gunners position. 

4. add the rendezvous radar radome before the tail.

5. There is a small air scoop on the left side of the fuselage, over the wing. Possibly there to prevent build up of volatile vapors leaking from the bomb bay gas tanks.

Suggestions for making these parts.

1. The refueling pod is tear drop shaped, but you could get away with using the Italeri C-130 wing tanks, suitably shortened. You could use the B-50 wing tank pylons but they should be shorter in length and narrower in height. The pod actually needs to be larger in diameter, so if you want, you might quarter it and put spacers to increase the diameter. Use putty to make the pod more tear drop shaped.

2. The front end of the C-130 wing tank could be used for the tail faring. It need to be a little more pointy.

3. You need to cut out the B-50 kit tail gun position and replace it with a fairing that follows the shape of the rudder. If you use the KC-97L wings and engines, you could use the kit tail unit but need to fair in the bottom portion of the rudder. The KC-97 rudder goes down to the fuselage. The B-50 and B-29 rudder stops at the top of the gunner's compartment. Note the there is a kink in the fairing on the KB-50J, probably where the top part of the hose unit extends above the fuselage. The forward part of the KC-97 tail unit where it joins the fuselage is a little higher than the B-50 tail unit. 

4. The KC-97L has a similar dorsal radar but it is deeper in height. Just use the top part.

5. Bend a piece of tubing and fair it in with putty.

Hope that this is of some use.

Best wishes,

Grant

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