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What's the freakin' deal??? And I love Phantoms...

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  • Member since
    November 2005
What's the freakin' deal??? And I love Phantoms...
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 9:42 AM

Why is it so hard to locate a 1/72nd scale F-4 Phantom B or C model (Navy)??? 

I mean, the Phantom II has got to be one of the most modeled kits in the history of scale modleing, yet all I find are obscure marks, like the S and F and some recon and "Wild Weasel" versions???  I'm not even sure what they were and what era they were used in... 

Will any of these easily available marks convert in a Vietnam-era US Naval mark, such as a B or C?

Need you Phantom Fanatics to help me out here...

  • Member since
    October 2006
  • From: Tucson, AZ
Posted by Archangel Shooter on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 10:04 AM

Agree! It's an over look version in 1/72 and  I thought Tamiya would have put one out in 1/32 scale when they came out with the D, E and J versions. I guess the model companies figure we would just convert a D to the B and so they won't bother putting one out, but let it be a ME-109 and we will see every possible version of that plane on the market over an over and over.

 

Scott

 Your image is loading...

 On the bench: So many hanger queens.

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2005
  • From: New Port Richey
1/72 F-4C/D Phantom
Posted by deattilio on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 10:10 AM

I believe this is close to what you are hunting for.  The closest thing to a date on the box/instructions is “18 FEBBRAIO 1983 n. 46” but I picked it up on EBay couple years back for minimal cost.  Probably because as you mentioned there are many boxings of the venerable F-4 Phantom on the market.  Although the kit is dated and will benefit from some PE and Resin, overall it appears to be a good rendition of the F-4C/D and even has recessed panel lines.  I am still awaiting a decent 1/144 offering this version.

 

 

WIP:
Trying to get my hobby stuff sorted - just moved and still unpacking.

 

"Gator, Green Catskill....Charlie On Time"
 

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 10:27 AM

accminf4-01

I was lucky enough to pick up this jewel of a kit a few years back...it is an Accurate Miniatures offering which I have been told is a re-boxing of the fine Monogram moulds...plenty of nice decal options in the kit and has some extras to replicate a couple of Old's F-4's during Operation Bolo and another bird he flew, including some resin bits and a HUGE decal sheet w/ seven options!!!

I just ordered the same type of AM boxing of the "J" version, which has a Marine and a Navy marking option in it...oh well, at least they are carrier birds...

  

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 11:16 AM

maybe your looking in the wrong place.

Are these any good.

http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/HAE36

http://www.hannants.co.uk/product/HA01966

And theres a B coming from Academy.

I am a Norfolk man and i glory in being so

 

On the bench: Airfix 1/72nd Harrier GR.3/Fujimi 1/72nd Ju 87D-3

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Österreich
Posted by 44Mac on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 11:26 AM

Check out Hannants. They have a Hase  B. Cheers...Mac

Strike the tents...

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Österreich
Posted by 44Mac on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 11:28 AM

See what happens when you go for a beer? Cheers...

Strike the tents...

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 11:51 AM

Manny, sometimes the nit picking helps you get what you want

first, as you might see by those two boxes, you don't want and F-4C for the Navy

for the Navy/Marines,,,,,the early version was an F-4B, later rebuilt into F-4N,,,almost all kits are now capable of being built as either one, and some come with decals for both in one release

search for Fujimi F-4B, Fujimi F-4N, Fujimi F-4B/N,,Hasegawa F-4B, F-4N, F-4B/N,,,and you will find the "thin winged" Phantoms

the later bird is the F-4J, rebuilt as the F-4S

for those, you want to search for the exact letter you really want, so that you get the correct parts, depending on the mold maker

search for Fujimi and Hasegawa F-4J, F-4S, F-4J/S,,,,Monogram F-4J (2 different box numbers), Acc Min F-4J,,,,,,,,those are the "best molds"

in the budget department,,,,look for Italeri F-4S (can't make a J from that, OOB) and the AMT/Ertl F-4S (that box has the old F-4J and F-4C parts included with some new F-4S parts),,,,,and the Esci F-4C/J (F-4C and F-4J parts included),,,,,,,,,,Edited,,,don't let anyone try to tell you that the "Italeri is a repop of the Esci/Ertl/AMT kit,,,,that simply is not true, but, has been said for years now,,,,simple sprue shots of the nose parts, or the outer wings will clear that right up, lol)

other F-4B options are to get any Hasegawa kit labeled as F-4K or F-4M, the ollllllldddd F-4J, or the old F-4D/J AMT kit,,,,those are all really thin wing models, sold as "new" letter version,,,,,,,,,the F-4K/M is still being sold,,,,,,,,,,these are crude kits, the mold is over 40 years old,,,,,,,and there is an Eastern Express repop of it,,,,,but, that one has actual "boiler plate" panel lines, like an old Lindberg ship model (lol,,,,yes, I mean the layout of the lines)

and as mentioned,,,,,there is an Academy B coming,,, it was announced before the 1/48 version was

hope this is of help

Rex

almost gone

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 11:58 AM

I didn't see that Esci box the first time through here,,,,,,even though I read all replies before I started to type

that is a great little kit, and a good find

it is "kind to the spares box" also, haha

Rex

almost gone

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:17 PM

TarnShip

first, as you might see by those two boxes, you don't want and F-4C for the Navy

Great info---thanks!  But what do you mean by the above???

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:49 PM

Manstein's revenge

http://agapemodels.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/accminf4-01-300x155.jpg

I was lucky enough to pick up this jewel of a kit a few years back...it is an Accurate Miniatures offering which I have been told is a re-boxing of the fine Monogram moulds...p

Does Hans know you complimented Monogram?Hmm

Tags: Monogram
  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:52 PM

Sprue-ce Goose

 Manstein's revenge:

http://agapemodels.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/accminf4-01-300x155.jpg

I was lucky enough to pick up this jewel of a kit a few years back...it is an Accurate Miniatures offering which I have been told is a re-boxing of the fine Monogram moulds...p

 

Does Hans know you complimented Monogram?Hmm

Don't tell him!

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:55 PM

Manstein's revenge

 

 Sprue-ce Goose:

 

 

 Manstein's revenge:

http://agapemodels.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/accminf4-01-300x155.jpg

I was lucky enough to pick up this jewel of a kit a few years back...it is an Accurate Miniatures offering which I have been told is a re-boxing of the fine Monogram moulds...p

 

 

Does Hans know you complimented Monogram?Hmm

 

Don't tell him!

 

I can keep a secret................WinkWhistling

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 1:29 PM

Manstein's revenge

 

 TarnShip:

 

first, as you might see by those two boxes, you don't want and F-4C for the Navy

 

Great info---thanks!  But what do you mean by the above???

 

Navy logic dictated that they skip from -B right on through to -N. All that salt air must have gotten to them.

F4s all kinda look the same to me anyway... Embarrassed

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 1:35 PM

Sprue-ce Goose

 

 Manstein's revenge:

 

http://agapemodels.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/accminf4-01-300x155.jpg

I was lucky enough to pick up this jewel of a kit a few years back...it is an Accurate Miniatures offering which I have been told is a re-boxing of the fine Monogram moulds...p

 

 

Does Hans know you complimented Monogram?Hmm

buahahahahahahaaaa!!!! Big Smile

Hey, just spotted the "Robin Olds" markings. History Channel had a a good piece on him in their Dogfights series. I could watch that stuff for hours.

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 1:59 PM

Image Detail

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • From: Monster Island-but vacationing in So. Fla
Posted by carsanab on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 2:04 PM

Manstein's revenge

http://up-ship.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/yf4h-1load.jpg

...ok......now you are just showing off....or ....compensating for............._________________

(Fill in the Blank)

 Photobucket

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 2:34 PM

Manny, what I meant was that the F-4C was not a Navy version,,,,,only the Air Force

and the next letter used after the F-4B in the Navy was the F-4J,,,,after all of the J's were built for the Naval Forces, the F-4B started being pulled out in batches for rebuilding in F-4N,,,,,after the N's were all rebuilt, the F-4J's started getting pulled out of the fleet for the F-4S rebuilds

the same thing happened to the three different versions of RF-4B (and yes, there were 3, not just 1,,,,,,,,, or the 2 that is often quoted),,,,,RF-4B's didn't get a new letter though, they got called RF-4B SURE, and RF-4B SLEP

it was called the SLEP program,,,,,,for "Service Life Extension Program",,,,that program was for everything from Aircraft to trucks to destroyers, and almost any other piece of military equipment you can name from that time period,,,,,,,,,,,Project SURE was a Sensor Upgrade program

that picture of the F4H-1F (still designated F4H-1 at that time) was one of the two photos that started this kid on his Phantom Phanaticism,,,,,the other was the 6 Sparrow demo aircraft,,,,,,silly photos are probably the reason I joined the Corps,,,,to "work on airplanes",,,,ended up mostly around Scooters,,,,but, I did get some TDY time around the Phantom (very close contact right at the end of my career, lol @ me)

Rex

almost gone

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:40 PM

TarnShip

Manny, what I meant was that the F-4C was not a Navy version,,,,,only the Air Force

and the next letter used after the F-4B in the Navy was the F-4J,,,,after all of the J's were built for the Naval Forces, the F-4B started being pulled out in batches for rebuilding in F-4N,,,,,after the N's were all rebuilt, the F-4J's started getting pulled out of the fleet for the F-4S rebuilds

the same thing happened to the three different versions of RF-4B (and yes, there were 3, not just 1,,,,,,,,, or the 2 that is often quoted),,,,,RF-4B's didn't get a new letter though, they got called RF-4B SURE, and RF-4B SLEP

it was called the SLEP program,,,,,,for "Service Life Extension Program",,,,that program was for everything from Aircraft to trucks to destroyers, and almost any other piece of military equipment you can name from that time period,,,,,,,,,,,Project SURE was a Sensor Upgrade program

that picture of the F4H-1F (still designated F4H-1 at that time) was one of the two photos that started this kid on his Phantom Phanaticism,,,,,the other was the 6 Sparrow demo aircraft,,,,,,silly photos are probably the reason I joined the Corps,,,,to "work on airplanes",,,,ended up mostly around Scooters,,,,but, I did get some TDY time around the Phantom (very close contact right at the end of my career, lol @ me)

Rex

Thanks again for the great info...I'm guessing the "R" designator stands for "recon"?  I ended up buying the 2 AM kits, one w/ Old's birds and a boxing of the "J" model w/ 2 Navy and 1 Marine scheme.  I'm gonna do this MiG killer w/ the "J" version:

http://www.armorama.com/photos/news/6056/f-4j_vf-142.jpg

 

And of course one of Old's birds w/ the other kit (C/D version).  IMO, Olds was the best Phantom driver in history...

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Sarasota, FL
Posted by RedCorvette on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 3:53 PM

In addition to the Hasegawa & Fujimi thin-wing B's that Rex listed, if really want a B and you're looking for a (big) challenge:  

The old Airfix kit is an early B

The old Revell kit was originally released as a B (the molds were later modified with some -J features)

The first generation Hasegawa kit was listed as a J, but had the thin wings of the B.

These are all 60's/70's era kits, and really don't compare with the current generation of kits, but the overall shape of the Airfix and Revell kits isn't too bad.  The old Hasegawa kit is a disaster and should be avoided.  I like to build them as the equivalent of "curbside" car models, i.e., clean build & paint, but not a lot of added detail.  Mostly want them to look good on a shelf and show off a particular paint scheme.

Here's an Airfix kit that's currently on my bench:

and one of the old Revell kits (with pylons & bombs from the Monogram J):

Mark

FSM Charter Subscriber

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 4:07 PM

ahh, Mark

I did list the old Hasegawa kit,,,,,,it is listed as the current F-4K/M kit in my list

nice oldies there,,,,,I haven't built an Airfix for a long time,,,,,,but, I build the Revell kit as a "get away from it all" build, once in a while

I actually enjoy building the Old Hasegawa kit,,,,,,and I buy them on purpose today,,,,,after you build a few of the New Mold Hasegawa kits, you develop a large stock of upgrade parts, they work on the old Has and old Revell kits,,,,,the old Revell, by the way,,,,can be "converted back" into a B with only a little trouble,,,,that upper wing bulge can be "de-bulged" with very little pressure after you cut the ridge away underneath it, make a spreader bar for the fuselage (so it actually touches the wings when you glue it),,,,,sand away a bump on the bottom of the wing,,,,and make gear doors from plastic card,,,,,,or old salvaged Airfix parts,,,,,,,or printed out doors on an overhead projection sheet with a bunch of Phantom "flat parts" drawn on your master page

I take Phantom parts availability for granted, though,,,,,with so many in the stash, they are easy to rob for "today's build"

almost gone

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: Chicago, IL
Posted by mike_espo on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:06 PM

Yes. To get a recessed panel lined F-4c/d the Air Force versions in 1/72 is tough and expensive.

I was looking for a Hasegawa 1/72 F-4b/c, but gave up when I found how expensive they were. I can get a 1/48 Revell F-4D for about half the price.....raised panel lines. Indifferent

On the workbench:

Trumpeter 148 MiG -21F 

  • Member since
    September 2005
  • From: Illinois: Hive of Scum and Villany
Posted by Sprue-ce Goose on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:44 PM

VanceCrozier

 

 Manstein's revenge:

 

 

 TarnShip:

 

first, as you might see by those two boxes, you don't want and F-4C for the Navy

 

Great info---thanks!  But what do you mean by the above???

 

 

 

Navy logic dictated that they skip from -B right on through to -N. All that salt air must have gotten to them.

F4s all kinda look the same to me anyway... Embarrassed

Royal Navy F4s always looked different to me.................

 

http://military-photo.blogspot.com/2008/12/f4-phantom-fighter-jet-raf.html

.....and the wings folded.............Surprise

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Exeter, MO
Posted by kustommodeler1 on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 6:05 PM

I seem to remember someone talking about the Navy birds having a beefed up landing gear/wheel/tire situation for the rigors of shipboard landing. This required extra clearance in the gear well when the gear retracted... Hence the "bump" on the top wing panel.

Which versions had this?Confused

Darrin

Setting new standards for painfully slow buildsDead

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 6:07 PM

the British jets were outgrowths of the Navy J version,,,and had to have folding wings (and folding radomes) in order to be used on Carriers

all versions of the Phantom had folding wings,,,,,even the Air Farce versions

oh, and just for historical context,,,,,,,the N wasn't chosen by the Navy,,,,,,it was the next available letter after all the other "bandwagon" air forces got their versions,,,,,,C, D, E, F, second G, K, cancelled L, M,,,,,,then the Navy got to use the N

almost gone

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: State of Mississippi. State motto: Virtute et armis (By valor and arms)
Posted by mississippivol on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 6:13 PM

Except for the bump on the IR sensor, the C and D are externally similar, and a C could be easily built. The cockpits have some differences, but could be easily remedied as well. You can make a B out of a C or D, by sanding down the wing humps, and trimming the main gear tires to get the narrow width, and you'd have to modify the rear cockpit with the Navy style side pieces (which come in that Accurate Miniatures kit).

Glenn

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 6:14 PM

Kustom,,,,,that is sort of corruption of the order that things happened in

the B version had a high pressure, narrow tire and wheel,,,,,and was used on carrier decks

then the C and other USAF versions came along, with the wider wheel, tire, and bulged wheel bays

the Navy J had the same basic size of tire, with a different wheel,,,,but, the same bulge

then, the B and rebuilt N,,,,got a beefier trunnion on the main gear,,,,,,same wing and gear well, though,,,,,but, with a little "trunnion cover hump" added to the top of the well area,,,,,the wing would have been technically considered weaker, since there was a cut out with a stamped cover there, instead of a solid skin,,,,,,,,,,granted, many people have called that a "wing reinforcement",,,,,but, it is not

the aircraft were used for many years, and deployments, before there was any change in the trunnion size, though

almost gone

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Exeter, MO
Posted by kustommodeler1 on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 6:17 PM

Oh, something I do know about Phantoms... They were constructed of overlapping panels in several places, not just simple butt-joints, so Monogram's 1/48 C/D seemed to have this right. Recessed panel lines would be inaccurate used exclusively on a kit. Not that they are wrong, it just has to be mixed up a bit.Big Smile Some raised and some recessed. Just look at the Collings Foundation D and you can see this plainly in the photo:

Darrin

Setting new standards for painfully slow buildsDead

  • Member since
    March 2012
  • From: Corpus Christi, Tx
Posted by mustang1989 on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 6:18 PM

Manstein's revenge

http://agapemodels.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/accminf4-01-300x155.jpg

I was lucky enough to pick up this jewel of a kit a few years back...it is an Accurate Miniatures offering which I have been told is a re-boxing of the fine Monogram moulds...plenty of nice decal options in the kit and has some extras to replicate a couple of Old's F-4's during Operation Bolo and another bird he flew, including some resin bits and a HUGE decal sheet w/ seven options!!!

I just ordered the same type of AM boxing of the "J" version, which has a Marine and a Navy marking option in it...oh well, at least they are carrier birds...

  http://www.armorama.com/photos/news/6056/f-4j_vf-142.jpg

 

Hey there bud.

 I built a 72nd scale Testors F4 Phantom a LONG time ago. Somebody has to have one of these things floating around.

                   

 Forum | Modelers Social Club Forum (proboards.com) 

  • Member since
    March 2005
  • From: near Nashville, TN
Posted by TarnShip on Wednesday, June 13, 2012 6:20 PM

but, Glenn, then you would need a new set of main gear doors,,,,,,,and a new pair of underwing spoilers,,,,,,and somehow deepen the spoiler wells, and change the shape of the inner wing pylons,,,,,get rid of the USAF style center pylon

and you would still only have one of the three possible IR sensors for the nose,,,,,,and none of the tail tip options, and those 6 things change with each different decal set

almost gone

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