Guillow's Avenger

Cool!! What's the scale, and how big will it be when you're finished?

Cool. Brings back memories. Everyone should try their hand at stick and paper at least once.

Stick and tissue baby, gotta love it. A stick and tissue Stearman was my first flying model.

It is 1/32.I will measure it once completed!

A relative of mine just gave me one of Guillows' 1/16 scale P-38 kits. No idea what I'm going to do with it yet. Too much to build already. They are neat kits, though.

--Chris

I cover Guillows models with thin card stock or sheet styrene instead of tissue.  Tissue doesn't represent metal covering very well, but good card stock or styrene sheet does.  Tissue is fine for WW1, but for later aircraft, use card stock or plastic unless you really want it to fly.

But then, the Guillows models do not fly well anyway.  They are too heavy.  Too much detail, and the wood is not selected for lightness, but for strength.

I have some Monokote that is a plastic like covering that you put on with a heat gun like shrink wrap.Since it is white,I was thinking of doing the Atlantic Coast scheme of two tone gray.

Hello!

I have built a 1:32 Hellcat back in 1997 - brought it to Poland from Australia. I just doped it (it had a nice navy blue tissue) and after it lost its undercarriage after the first flight, it flew quite well. Of course, if you are going to paint the aircraft and add detail, flying them babies after that would be a nonsense. Nevertheless, those kits are something special! philo426, good luck with your build and have a nice day

Paweł

Outstanding!! I built and flew several of the Guillow's kits as a kid. And I just purchased a P-51 kit for me and my son to build in the spring. Hope you enjoy the build and thanks for sharing!

I build stick'n'tissue models often and if you intend to fly the Avenger, Monokote is much too heavy - even Lite Span is a little heavy. Shrinking the Monokote is likely to warp the structure as well. Tissue would be best even if painted. If you don't intend it to fly, weight is unimportant.

Yeah i was concerned that the monokote might cause warpage perhaps I should use the tissue after all.

Again it brings back memories ,anyone remember when you could walk into a hobby shop and say,hey I need some dope

Yeah that stuff sure was nasty!

Wing unit off the paper.  

philo426

I have some Monokote that is a plastic like covering that you put on with a heat gun like shrink wrap.Since it is white,I was thinking of doing the Atlantic Coast scheme of two tone gray.

The problem with any fabric, paper or thin plastic is that when it pulls taunt it goes flat and the fuselage will become faceted, like those PE models.  Even though the formers are curved, the covering will pull flat when heated to shrink it (in the case of monokote, or just water shrinking with tissue).  You need something that will hold the curve and doesn't need to be pulled tight.  Again, if you are building it to fly, that is something else, but if it is for static scale you need a heavier covering.

Don,

You've just answered a question I've been mulling over for YEARS!  If thin card stock or sheet styrene work well for covering Guillows type models, I'm thinking lithography plates or even soda can aluminum would do the job as well.

I wonder if thin balsa sheet can be used to plate the airframe?

I went to Hobbytown to purchase a 3 bladed prop to replace the goofy red plastic prop included in the kit.(I realize it might be necessary for rubber powered flight but still goofy)   

philo426

I wonder if thin balsa sheet can be used to plate the airframe?

Too heavy. If you want to fly It, you need to go with tissue. Unfortunately, Monokote and the associated lighter versions may be too heavy as well. As posted earlier, the Guillows kits were heavy to begin with.

Now, with that being said, as a static display...1/32 balsa would be great 

Just don't put your finger through it.

Philo,  I used 1/64" sheet to cover the airframe when I used to build them for show.  It adds weight but works fine.  You have to be careful when sanding so you don't go through the sheets.  

I have these kits sitting in my stash and I have 2 with the frames finished and no covering sitting on the top shelf.  Comet - Supermarine Spitfire II                                                                                                                                    Comet - Aeronca Chief                                                                                                                                                Guillows - Fokker DR-1 Triplane                                                                                                                                 Sterling - Spad                                                                                                                                                               Sterling - Sopwith Camel                                                                                                                                               Herr - Fokker D-VII

I've found the Herr kits to be very good kits.  Make into fine builds. My grandsons like to watch me build them.  However, they don't care to try it themselves.  Maybe one of these days.

Jim 

P.S. I still love the stick and microfilm planes but don't have the hands to apply the film to the frames anymore.

What do you use to seal the balsa sheets?If I put a suitable electric motor in it will the weight problem be overcome?

I used Clear Dope to put colored tissue on over the balsa.  That helped by sealing the balsa and making painting a lot easier. The tissue covered any minor seam cracks. Then I brush painted them with the colored dope.  I still have a few bottles of clear and a couple bottles of colors.  When I build the next one, I'm planning on trying watered down Elmers glue to put on the tissue and then trying to spray paint it with acrylics. It should work well.

I'm not sure if putting an electric motor in it will solve the weight problem or not.  I've never tried it.  They say on some of the kits that you can do it with electric or even small gas engines (.049 - .051 I guess). Gas is very messy and I wouldn't use it on tissue/stick models. Either way, you'd have to be sure to balance the plane carefully to get the Center of Gravity right.

Hope that this helps.

Jim 

The model was designed for rubber power or a small glow engine, I fly electric RC and can tell you an electric motor + battery can weigh more than a glow .049. However, the new more powerful motors and smaller Li Po batteries you might get away with it. It depends on the wing loading, which is somewhat of a equation. Were you planning on making it RC or free flight or control line?

Not sure yet!

When I was a kid i built them for what I think was called control line. In other words a circle with you in the middle and a handle. That was with the cox .049. Weight was not much of an issue,but it sure was fun

much to consider here.

philo426

I wonder if thin balsa sheet can be used to plate the airframe?

Trying to fill the grain on really thin sheets is problematic.  Sanding the thin sheet is difficult.  That is why I use card stock (glossy, which has a thin layer of plastic applied) or styrene sheet.  This is for shelf/static scale- not for a flying model. If you want to fly it, you need to make many compromises.  Guillows models do not fly well anyway- too heavy.  The ones from Dumas or Easy-bilt are much better flyers, but they take some liberties with scale.

philo426

I mentioned earlier that I often built stick'n'tissue models - here's a couple of pics. First is a Peck "Baby Ace" down for a major overhall (is CO2 freeflight and motor needs work) and a NoCal (i.e. profile) Piper clipped wing Cub. Second pic is my SE5A under construction and will be micro RC. As has been mentioned, wing loading in very important in these smaller models if they are to fly well. Guillows kits have a reputation for being 'heavy' so building in lightness is important. A couple of other comments: If you want to cover with thin balsa sheets (i.e. display model) you can use the old tried and true talcum powder mixed in dope as a filler and light sanding - works well; covering with tissue you can use the old dope method or the 50/50 whilte glue/water or the more recent glue stick method; if you plan RC, the Spektrum micro brick works well in models this size; you can find small brushed or brushless motors and lipo batteries for power that will weight less than an 049 glow; and last, there's lots of info on the web about what you're undertaking - have a look here:

http://www.hippocketaeronautics.com/hpa_forum/index.php?board=89.0

http://www.stickandtissue.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl

Have fun!!!

Thanks for the info!I plan to get a larger kit like the B-25.I like the sE5 i see that you covered the cowling area with sheet balsa.