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B-17 G 1:48 scale, 351st Bomb Group, 510th Squadron, AC# 43-37862, Fearless Fosdick

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  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by TheMongoose on Friday, June 19, 2020 7:12 PM

Oh there's lots of good work here! Will look great through that clear fuselage half. I'm using your bottle method for my aircraft carrier. Very handy. Love the updates!

In the pattern: a dual build of my KittyHawk F-5's.

  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Sunday, June 21, 2020 5:52 PM

Moving on, I was able to get more completed on the bomb bay area. Mostly focusing on the central walkway part. It's not done yet but did manage the main part. Upright portion maybe next weekend depending on available time.

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It's not attached, just doing fit checks.

Thanks

  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 6:58 PM

Spent the weekend working on the door mechanisms. The motor, worm gears, shafts, and the like. Took some time but it came out pretty well. 

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First was the transition and worm gears. Next you can see how the bomb bay door came out.

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Then the drive motor for the door mechanisms. 

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Then the threaded shafts. 

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Finally the rest of the drive shafts I was able to do. Not all of them but most.

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Thanks.

 

  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by TheMongoose on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 7:06 PM

That's gonna look great! Lots of well laid down details there.

In the pattern: a dual build of my KittyHawk F-5's.

  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Wednesday, July 1, 2020 7:19 PM

Thanks...  I still have the aft wall to do and the actual bomb racks.  Then there are the hydraulics, power cables, and flight cables.  Once those are done, I'll work on painting it very carefully...   Oh and the rivets.

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Thursday, July 2, 2020 6:51 AM

Night Fighter, beautiful work. Mt understanding is that WW2 fire extinguishers were not red. You may want to check that out before you button her up.

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Thursday, July 2, 2020 6:54 AM

I'll check, thanks.  I do know the extinguishers on the flight line were red based on a colored photograph. 

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Thursday, July 2, 2020 8:27 AM
Night Fighter, beautiful work. It is my understanding that WW2 fire extinguishers were not red. I might be wrong but you may want to check that out before you button her up.

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

  • Member since
    September 2006
  • From: Bethlehem PA
Posted by the Baron on Thursday, July 2, 2020 12:52 PM

Night Fighter

...I know that perhaps my scratch building is not as nice as many of your models but practice is helping me improve over time. Thanks for your interest. 

You are too modest!  You've got excellent scratchbuilding skills, and your details really improve the kit, amazing details.  

The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Thursday, July 2, 2020 4:55 PM

It appears that fire extinguishers could either be red or olive drab. Most likely, however, the extinguishers were olive drab. Here are examples of what I found as well as where they were located around the aircraft.

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What do you guys think?

 

  • Member since
    March 2003
  • From: El Dorado Hills, CA
Posted by IBuild148 on Thursday, July 2, 2020 9:26 PM
WOW Night Fighter!!! This is detail A+ stuff. I’ll keep watching and reading.

IBuildOne48

Teach modeling to youth!

Scalefinishes.com

http://i712.photobucket.com/albums/ww122/randysmodels/NMF%20Group%20build%20II/Group%20Badge/NMFIIGBbadgesmall.jpg

 

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Friday, July 3, 2020 7:32 AM

Inch High Guy suggests that the B-17 " Radio equipment and instrument panels were black. Oxygen bottles were yellow.  Fire extinguishers were left in natural metal.  Walkways were covered in a rubber non-slip material.  Interior components were provided from numerous subcontractors, so there can be some variations in details and finishes." I cannot vouch for his accuracy; but I am sure he knows more than I do! He has 3 parts discussing the B-17 interior. It might be a worthwhile read. https://inchhighguy.wordpress.com/2019/09/11/b-17-flying-fortress-interior-colors-part-i/

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Saturday, July 4, 2020 11:17 AM

Thanks, I found that very useful.  It also explains the fire extinguishers.  The aircraft he pictured though were earlier versions.  You can tell by the waist gunner positions.  Early aircraft had the waist gunners side by side.  They got into each others way.  Later aircraft, like the one I'm modeling, had the waist gunner positions staggered.  

What I have learned from your photos confirmed some things B17 guy was telling me.  Based on all the information I now have, here is my hypothesis concerning extinguishers on B17G's   There seems to have been two different types of extinguishers.  One was a natural metal (Brass) and looked very small.

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The other was similar to what I modelled and was most likely olive drab green.  Perhaps the red ones came later during the war at an attempt to standardize colors for fire fighting equipment.  Ground extinguishers were red.  Here is a document showing both types of extinguishers.

Aircraft Fire Extinguisher

From my research, there were two types of extinguishers used in aircraft; Carbon Dioxide and Carbon Tetrachloride.  CO2 is most effective with fuel and oil fires, Tetrachloride was more for fabric and wood.  This chemical was also used for electrical fires since it didn't conduct.  It is my understanding that the hand pump extinguishers were used through 1943 and eventually phased out to pressurized hand held ones.

I'll repaint and change a little bit the red one in the cockpit and add others as best as possible described in the document I posted earlier. 

Thanks

 

 

 

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Chapin, South Carolina
Posted by Shipwreck on Saturday, July 4, 2020 12:59 PM

Night Fighter

 The aircraft he pictured though were earlier versions.  You can tell by the waist gunner positions. 

 

 

Very observant! Inch High says on his web page, "B-17 Interior Color Summary from T. O. 01-20EF-2" The best I can determine, the T.O.01-20EF-2 specs were for a B-17F!

 

I did read some place that toward the end of the war, red became the standard. In that case there is nothing wrong with your red fire extinguisher.

 

Suppose your plane went out on a mission and had to deploy the fire extinguisher. The next day before going out on another mission that fire extinguisher would be replaced with what ever is available; it could be new out of he box, or even a spare from a junked B-17F.

 

Have a good and safe Independence Day!

On the Bench:

Revell 1/96 USS Constitution

Trumpeter 1/350 USS Hornet CV-8

Revell 1/48 B-1B Lancer Prep & Reasearch

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Saturday, July 4, 2020 5:36 PM

Night Fighter
From my research, there were two types of extinguishers used in aircraft; Carbon Dioxide and Carbon Tetrachloride. CO2 is most effective with fuel and oil fires, Tetrachloride was more for fabric and wood. This chemical was also used for electrical fires since it didn't conduct. It is my understanding that the hand pump extinguishers were used through 1943 and eventually phased out to pressurized hand held ones.

Carbon Tet gave the most "extinguish" ability per pound of any product then available.  It chemically binds up oxygen to rob fire of oxidizer.  Downside is that it's not exactly human-friendly.  The risk was balanced against being in an unpressurized a/c with available breathing O2 immediately available.

Carbon tet was simple to make, very stable in storage, relatively insensitive to changes in pressure, and temperature. 

Contrast that with CO2 bottles.  Which needed heavy pressure-proof bottles, the nozzles and release had to be usable from sea level to Service Ceiling, which is a significant range of pressures.  The effect of C)2 is to smother a fire adn rob it of O2 and also chilling the fuel source of a fire.  If battle damage has occurred, ther ecould be significant air movement within the a/c.  Also, at altitude, wher ethe temperature was already very low, the cooling effect of CO2 was decreased, and the pressure change meant some dispersion for the "plume."

So, while it was a proven and known quantity on the ground and apron, it's use while flying had issues.

The Carbon Tet cannisters were often relatively thin as they had to hold little pressure.  They were a mix of brass and copper, too, as that could be soldered to make a good liquid-tight seal.

Once AAF went to pressurized a/c, the carbon tet had to go.

  • Member since
    June 2013
Posted by bvallot on Saturday, July 4, 2020 9:19 PM

CapnMac, you've got my attention. Carry on sir. This is a hefty build indeed. Looking forward to seeing what you do next. =]

On the bench:  

Tamiya F4U-1  Kenneth Walsh

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: NYC, USA
Posted by waikong on Monday, July 6, 2020 3:54 PM
This continues to be masterclass in scratch building details!

My website: http://waihobbies.wkhc.net

   

  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Monday, July 6, 2020 8:20 PM

Thanks for the kind words. I did repaint that fire extinguisher the proper color and added a handle.   Also completed more of the bomb bay.  Starting on the bomb racks with photos to follow hopefully by next weekend as time permits. 

  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Sunday, July 12, 2020 5:32 PM

Well... I've been able to finish the main structures in the bomb bay. Next I'll work on the more finer parts.. the fiddly bits. :)
While working through this, I keep finding references that guide me in improvements. It's like painting, if I don't like what I have then I just repaint it. In this case, I rebuild what I need. 

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As you can see, I repainted the extinguisher and added a handle but I don't intend to remake it into the thinner version. I also corrected a few other parts on the forward bulkhead and the inside of the bomb bay. Hope you like.

 

 
  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Sunday, August 2, 2020 8:21 AM

I was able to get a bit more done today. Focused mainly on the bomb racks. First I trimmed out the bottom. Reference photos showed an open space there. 

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Then started installing the bomb switches or sensors. 

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The dots that I had cut earlier were used for the round fasteners used for holding the bomb release shackles.  I've also drilled a couple holes for wiring later.

  • Member since
    November 2008
  • From: Central Florida
Posted by plasticjunkie on Sunday, August 2, 2020 8:27 AM

What else to say but.............Bow Down Toast

 GIFMaker.org_jy_Ayj_O

 

 

Too many models to build, not enough time in a lifetime!!

  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Sunday, August 2, 2020 7:16 PM

Rounding out the weekend by finishing up on the racks. More study on what it was suppose to look like. Discovered that there was a pulley at the top of the inboard racks. Also that it was open. Then there are the solenoids with accompanying wiring I get to do later. Atleast the solenoids are in now. Wiring will come later after I paint it. Only items left to build is a winch located aft starboard side, the hydraulic lines, wiring with accompanying boxes and flight control cable guides. Looking to finish this section this month and moving on. I hope...

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The styrene is .020 inches. 

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Thanks for all the kind comments and encouragement.

  • Member since
    June 2017
Posted by Chemteacher on Sunday, August 2, 2020 8:08 PM
Wow! That is some impressive work. Awesome job.

On the bench: Revell-USS Arizona; Airfix 1/72 P-40B

  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Sunday, August 9, 2020 6:25 PM

Thanks all. This weekend, I was able to get a bit more accomplished. I have built a winch apparatus for loading bombs. I don't quite understand how it works but since it was in the references I was given I went ahead and built it.

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From there I built a couple of lights that are for lighting up the bay. These I'll attach later.

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Finally, I worked on a couple of circuit junction boxes and some hydraulic lines before I splashed a little color to get an idea of how I'll paint this.

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Thanks for following.

  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Saturday, August 22, 2020 3:44 PM

Just a quick update... added a bit more color.

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Thanks

  • Member since
    January 2015
Posted by TheMongoose on Saturday, August 22, 2020 4:50 PM

This is really gonna show well. Lov'n it!

you ever see Galaxy Quest the movie? Your quote on the winch about it being on the drawing so you added it reminded me of that movie. The Thermians built a whole ship based on what they saw in a tv show, didn't know how to work it but they built everything that was there!

In the pattern: a dual build of my KittyHawk F-5's.

  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Sunday, August 23, 2020 6:53 PM

I'm getting close to finishing this section. A few more wires, a couple of hydraulic lines, flight cables, and bombs. I may try for some decals later also. By the way, I discovered that a raft goes above the bomb bay area. 

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Thanks

  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Sunday, August 30, 2020 2:03 PM

Phew... to start I'll say that I have finished the bomb bay section. I had a goal to finish this part before the end of the month and I just made it. First I finished everything I could on the opposite side of the rack because, you know, it would make life easier later on. I attached the lights I made along with their wiring. Added the gangway ropes and lastly added flight cables for that side. I also attached the big bombs and attached the shaft for the forward door gear.

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When I thought it looked good enough, I glued in the rack and started attaching near side items.

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Wiring for the door motor and hydraulic hose.

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Added only the first part of the flight cables for port side after the other two bombs were loaded.

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Final photos after an aft door handle was attached.

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Thanks guys for the encouragement.  Hope you like what you see.  I'll be taking a break for a couple of weeks as I start the fall honey do lists.

 

  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Sunday, September 20, 2020 6:51 PM

I have been given a moment between honey do items to research the chair in the radio room. From what I've found there were two types. The first looked similar to the pilot and copilot seats. 

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The second looks like an old swivel chair that was strapped down to the floor.

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One note I found said that the swivel type chairs replaced the other type in 1943 starting with boeing aircraft number 42-30532 which means this aircraft I'm working on had the newer chairs.

Ok, starting on the radio room. Reference photos showed a curved edge in the ceiling toward the bomb bay so I went ahead and tried to recreate it. 

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I also cut off that silly pylon sticking out of the floor. I'll plug it an sand it later. 

I cut a newer lower section of wall to cover that concave area. It just doesn't look nice. Once thst was in, I recreated the ribbing for that part.

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Next time I'll do some stuff below deck where the camera bay is and a couple of oxygen tanks.

Thanks guys.

  • Member since
    August 2019
Posted by Night Fighter on Sunday, September 27, 2020 4:18 PM

Now its time for the goodies... :)
Taking a minor break from scratch building to start on the photo etch stuff.

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More to follow later.

 

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