Revell 1/48 Scale F-105D Thunderchief

Hi TigerII, that is a beautiful model. One day I hope to achieve paint finish that smooth. And the feathered edges of the camo pattern are so consistent. The canopy framing looks perfect. All around excellent job!

Hi Tanker-Builder, thanks for looking. I always liked the Thud from the very first kit I made as a kid. I believe it was an AMT 1/72 with optional parts to show battle damage. Sadly, that model ended up getting blown up by a firecracker or shot to pieces by a BB gun ;)

The Thud is a huge plane, it makes my Me-262 and P-38 look puny.

As for whether or not a weathering effect is historically accurate, that is very subjective, because a great deal of that depends on the age of the aircraft being modeled, maintenance activities/part replacement, and the environment it has been in.

Hi Eaglecash867, I completely agree, weathering is subjective. When I look at photos there is usually a wide variation from brand new to completely dirty and worn. It is easy for me to imagine circumstances when the ground crew has plenty of time to clean and polish the planes to look almost brand new. But there are probably wartime circumstances when the operational pace and manpower shortages mean the crew barely has time to keep the planes flying, let alone keep them clean. So historical accuracy often depends on which photo you happen to choose. And even If there is no photo, who's to say a model is accurate or not? At the end of the day, all planes are machines with fuel, lubricants, fluids, heat, dirt, exposure to sunlight, rain, etc. And will get dirty if not cleaned and polished regularly.

As far as panel lines go, in my mind the photographic evidence clearly shows panel lines in most instances. How these are portrayed on a model is a matter of personal preference. Imo these would be left off if trying to portray a brand new plane fresh from the factory. Wartime birds seeing heavy use with an overworked crew would probably have visible panel lines with varying amounts of shading. Along with other types of stains, grime, etc.

I love the photo of the RF-4C exhaust. I think the kit manufacturers can do a better job of molding these details into the exhaust parts.

Nice job on this "Thud". I built this same kit back in 2020. Good kit and fun to build.

Well Now!

      It's rare for me to visit here. Planes have gotten so big, I just don't have room. I can put Eight ships in the shelf space of two F-15 Strike eagles! That's even in my preferred scale of 1/48! Anyway, looking over your photos in this post. You Sir, have done an admirable job. Yours is one of the few builds of that plane I like, I specifically didn't like the plane's design. Something looked weird to me! Still does, but yours puts that to rest! Beautiful and Well Done build!

burrito king

All the F-105 photos show bare metal inside with uniform dark sooty coating, so my Thud nozzle definitely isn't historically accurate.  But I still like the way it looks :)

When it comes down to it, that's what's important.  As for whether or not a weathering effect is historically accurate, that is very subjective, because a great deal of that depends on the age of the aircraft being modeled, maintenance activities/part replacement, and the environment it has been in.  I've seen enough dogmatic "panel lines aren't visible" statements to wonder what they're based on, because I work with all kinds of different aircraft in real life on a daily basis, and the only ones that statement holds true on are the pristine corporate jets and some of the brand new bug smashers.  Everything else has visible panel lines to one degree or another.  There's nothing saying that your Thud's exhaust wouldn't have looked the way you made it at some point in its life.  The exhaust weathering I did on my F-4Bs J79s was based on pics I took of an RF-4C at Ramstein AB in Germany (in 2016 I think).  But, the aircraft had been sitting, abandoned in a HAS for 20 years before I took the photo, so who knows what it would have looked like when it was still operational.  "Looks good" was good enough for me. 

RF-4C at Ramstein

Btw here is a link to a collection of weathered aircraft photos. I got some weathering ideas there.

https://www.dreamstime.com/photos-images/aircraft-corrosion.html?pg=2

Hi Eaglecash867, thanks for the info on the inside coloration inside the exhaust nozzles.  From what I can see in photos, the ceramic coated nozzles are most common on recent post cold war aircarft.  All the F-105 photos show bare metal inside with uniform dark sooty coating, so my Thud nozzle definitely isn't historically accurate.  But I still like the way it looks :)  I did it with Folk Art craft acrylic white mixed with a couple drops of acrylic metallic brown airbrushed in thin layers.  Followed by heavily thinned Tamiya dark gray acrylic airbrushed in thin lines.

A few weeks ago I visited the California Science Center in LA.  There is an A12 east of the museum, I took a quick photo just to get ideas for weathering.  Unfortunately there are covers over the nozzles.  For some reason this plane is mostly natural metal finish instead of black.  I just passed it on my way to the car, the parking meter was about to expire so I didn't have time to take more pnotos.  Good luck on your SR-71A, sounds like a fun build!

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burrito king

I even got ideas for the inside of the exhaust nozzles from a F-16 photo. It has light colored ash with dark sooty lines.

Just so you know, that light coloration on the inside of the exhaust nozzle on an F-16 is actually a white ceramic coating that is applied to the inside surfaces of the exhaust.  That coating then becomes streaked and stained by the hot gases.  Heh...just learned that in the last few years myself, and found out the J58s on the YF-12s and SR-71s also had a white ceramic coating.  Currently working on the engine nacelles of the 1/48 Revell SR-71A, so that came up in my research.  Not sure if the Thud was the same way, but that doesn't matter, I'd say the look you achieved on the exhaust looks right.  The exhaust nozzles of the J79s on the F-4B I recently finished had an almost light chromate green color they were coated with, so I guess it all depends on the engine and what their solution was for dealing with the heat.

Hi Gary, thanks! Weathering is the part I enjoy most. I study photos and use that as my main inspiration. But I also look at real life objects and get ideas from those. For example trucks, trains, outdoor heavy machinery, amusement park rides etc. Recently I looked at a YF-12 outside the Air and Space museum in LA. It is moderately weathered and stained. I even got ideas for the inside of the exhaust nozzles from a F-16 photo. It has light colored ash with dark sooty lines. Probably not historically accurate for a Thud, but I think it looks cool. I think weathering is where a modeler can express their artistic individualism and creativity.

Next up is a Hobby Boss P-47 1/48. I ordered it from Ali Express for $9.50 plus $12.99 shipping. Due to arrive in a couple weeks. Should be a basic build, gonna do NMF aclad aluminum. The trick here will be the markings. Gonna do Major Eagleston's mount when he was with the 353rd FS in France 1944. I will try to make my own decals with the winged skull and crossbones, and the eagle. If that fails, I can buy a set of decals for $25.99 from Furball. The set includes Eagleston's and around 9 more P-47's.

BK,

That looks great!  Nice weathering.

Gary

Hi everyone, thanks for the compliments and encouragement.  I have received so many great tips and advice from this forum, and your encouragement means a lot since we share many of the same challenges and difficulties.

One more thing I'd like to share from the learning curve is applying the flat clear coat.  I initially used a 1:3 mix of Tamiya X-21 with Quick Shine, sprayed with my Patriot 105.  But it came out semi-gloss and also very grainy.  I guess my spraying distance was too far.  So I did some light sanding with 1000 grit, trying to get it smooth without removing the weathering.  It was scary but I managed to do it.  Then I applied 1:1 mix by brush.  This dried smooth, but it had a white frost appearance.  So I did some light sanding and some wiping with wet paper towels.  Next time I will use 1:2 and practice with the airbrush before applying it to the model.  I think it has to go on fairly thick so it self-levels.

I tried to take more outdoor photos to show some details.  But the sun just isn't to usual Socal brightness this weekend.  So I took the following photos with indoor lighting to show rusty dirty bombs, oil stains and scratched paint on the fuselage, burnt metal exhaust nozzles, etc.

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Just went through the entire post. Very nice work and I like the way you showed the details of your learning curve. Was very well thought out and expressed. Finished bird is very well done!

Stay safe.

Jim 

Great job.  Love the 105.  And really hice photos.

Wow!  That looks incredibly good, BurritoKing!  I really like those top and bottom shots.

Great photos of a well made model!

Finished the Thud, ready to go to downtown Hanoi.  Overcast in SoCal, so the weathering details may not be fully visible.  Maybe I'll take more photos on a sunny day and post later.  Overall I am happy with the weathering.  I feel like I hit the balance between making it look used and war weary without oversdoing it.  I learned a lot with this build, but still have so far to go.  I am looking forward to the journey.

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Today my goal was to use post shading technique to apply the gunpowder stains for the M61 Vulcan.  I had to run some errands in the morning and race the clock before the rain storm arrived.  I don't like to work in the garage while it's raining.  Used one drop of Tamiya dark gray and one drop of Tamiya Black heavily thinned with IPA at around 18 psi.  I think I got it pretty good on the first try.  Then applied some Tamiya make up Soot for the stains to the lower right of the ventilation openings.  I saw this staining on my "dirty Thud" reference photo.  Idk what it is, I am guessing hydraulic fluid from the cannon drive motor, or maybe residue from ejecting shell casings.  I am pretty sure most Vulcan installations cycle the spent casings to an internal storage drum, to reduce the risk of FOD of ejected cases.   But maybe the Thud ejected them externally.  The colors in the photo are not totally accurate, in natural light the powder stains appear darker than the photo.  But I think I got the pattern OK.  I didn't want to go as extreme as the photo, I think I got the medium effect I was looking for.  And I got it done just before the rain arrived.

When the rain stops, gonna use my Tamiya black and red-brown to add random post shading and stains to the upper camo.  My personal style is to try to be random, I think that looks more realistic to me.  I try, but I don't always succeed.

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Hi Gary, thanks for the compliment!  Haven't had time to work on the Thud during the week, but today I used jeaton01's tip to get better visibility of the post shading while I sprayed.  What a huge difference!  I was able to get the right amount of post shading, then added some other stains and streaks.  Weathering is very tricky for me, it seems like everything is going well, then all of a sudden a magic line is crossed and it looks overdone.  So I am going slow and easy.  I also did the grease stains under the wing roots.  Next is the 20mm cannon powder stains and upper post shading.  Then attach the drop tanks, bomb rack, nose cone, exhaust nozzle, and canopy.

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BK,

The good thing about shading is you can always add more if it seems too light! 

You're doing good work!

Gary

Hi jeaton01, thanks for the tip!  I am not an experienced painter and I never would have thought of that.  But it seems pretty obvious in hindsight.  Being able to learn from other people's experience is a great benefit of the forum.  I still have some dark gray post shading to do on the underside, and I am ssupposed to receive my Tamiya XF-1 black and XF-90 red-brown on Friday.  Those will be for applying panel line shading and stains on the dark uppersides.  Gonna need great visiblity and control to keep from messing that up!

A method I learned painting big things like trucks and airplanes was to cary a light in one hand and the spray gun in the other, so I could see just when the paint was starting to gloss.  I basically do the same thing when I paint a model, except I hold the model up and turn it so the light gives me the best reflection.  An unpleasant paint application shows up instantly, as well as a good one.  And there can never be enough light when painting.

Hi Gary, thanks for your feedback. I definitely see your point, the Thuds and also the F4s tended to be very stained abd grimy. I think for me it was sort of a shock seeing it so different in normal light from when I was painting it. I think the problem is the work light is a bright LED light. It is so bright it washes out faint stuff like the post shading. When I am airbrushing, I do a test spray on flat styrene, and it almost always goes on just the way I want, with pretty good control. But when I go to the model, it seems like the paint just stops. I try to gradually apply more, but I don't see anything and eventually get scared that I'll apply too much and get spattering and pooling. But maybe it's going on just fine, I just can't see it until it builds up. So I'm going to get a different light and see if that helps me see better. Maybe the curved surface of the model isn't as visible as the flat practice sheet.

Once I can see better, i will continue weathering. At least it's usually easier (and more fun) to add rather than tone it down.

To me the first picture of your shading looked the best, but that's just me.  These birds were "dirty", so a grimy finish suits them.  Still, I'm sure it will be fine once completed!

Gary

I applied the decals and started post shading over the weekend.  I used Tamiya Dark Gray heavily thinned with IPA, with the air pressure at 15 psi.  It's supposed to be so thin that you need two or three coats just to start seeing it.  But like usual, I went too heavy on the trigger and way overdid it.  I think I need better lighting in my work area.  When I looked at it in better light, I was horrified.  It felt like those lines were just screaming at me.  With recessed panel lines, I just apply a thin white wash to tone things down.  But that doesn't seem to work with raised panel lines.  So I tried the Tamiya make-up Snow color.  It helped, but since the color was different you could see it.  So I tried dry brushing with the Mig light gray acrylic.  That was better, but still not what I wanted.  I ended up airbrushing over it, with several thin coats until it was toned down to what I like.  Then I started the oil and grime stains.  I am using the actual Thud below as a guide.  The gunpowder stain is just about the biggest and darkest I have ever seen, and the oil and grime on the light gray is just filthy.  I'm not going to make this model that dirty, if I try I'm sure it'll look teribble.  Just gonna try to keep it toned down.

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Not too much time for the model over the past few days.  Applied quick shine to the drop tanks.  Got the nose cone painted.  Noticed my camo was off, needs to go all the way to the wing roots instead of the tips of the intake fences (that's what the Revell instructions call those flat things inside the intakes).  Free handing that would've been a complete disaster, so I made masks using a similar technique as the drop tanks.  The results are definitely amateurish, but way better than it would've been if I tried to free hand it.  So it's a big win in my book!  Then I masked and painted the port for the 20mm cannon using Alclad aluminum.  Finally I painted the exhaust nozzles with Alckad pale burnt metal.

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Hi stikpusher, yeah the angles are challenging, even with the masking. I am fixing the paint one side at a time. I think I will finish the tanks tomorrow. Then I can apply the decals and start weathering.

Yeah, the compound curves of such surfaces can be a challenge. Its all about the angles.

Hi stikpusher, thanks for the advice.  I will apply the decals before I start weathering.  I'm usually in a hurry to start weathering, so I usually apply the decals afterwards, then apply a bit of weathering on top.  But if I do the decals first, I can do a more comprehensive job of making the decal weathering match the rest of the airframe.

I did some experimenting with the rolled masking tape and discovered that having the tape around 1/4" above the surface gave me the feathering I wanted.  I applied the masking tape to the drop tanks, then sprayed the light gray.  I can't believe how easy it was, and how well it worked!  The main problem is I made it too high, it is almost halfway up when I think it should be about 1/3 up.  The location of the line can be adjusted by the position of the tape, and also the angle of spraying.  So I think I can fix that when I mask and re-do the dark green.  The other problem was a bit of overspray, but compared to before, I am happy to live with that.

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