Thanks Dennis, that is very helpful and interesting. Ian Huntley I have heard of. I think he produces the paints for White Ensign and perhaps Xtracolor as well.
Xtracolor X133 is Neutral Gray FS16270 and more similar to Medium Sea Grey than Ocean Grey. Ocean Grey was chosen because of its blue cast which made it suitable for camouflage at higher altitudes. A lot has been discussed about the US substitute for Ocean Grey. It is said to have matched Dark Sea Grey and indeed some modellers have used DSG to represent ANA 603 . Xtracolor have a large number of greys used by the US Air Force/Navy which helpfully they list with FS Numbers. They call FS16118 Gunship Grey (X130). Xtracolor’s Ocean Grey (X6) certainly has a blue cast, more so than Humbrol’s version H106. Gunship Grey also has a blue cast but less so than OG. It is similar to Xtracolor’s DSG (X4) but not identical (bluer). As Gunship Grey is somewhere between OG and DSG. I can accept that it was the colour used as a substitute for Ocean Grey. I cannot see Neutral Grey being used in place of Ocean Grey as it is far to pale. Also it would be obvious in photographs. There is no Humbrol H176. I haven’t found it listed as discontinued either. Perhaps it existed in the far past or maybe it’s a misprint for H126 US Medium Grey.
Xtracolor X137 is Light Gull Grey FS16440. Again the problem I have with this is it is far too pale a grey to have been used as a substitute for Medium Sea Grey. The difference between ANA 603 and OG has long been noted and discussed but nobody remarks on any difference between ANA 602 and MSG. As there is a much greater difference between LGG and MSG. than between OG and ANA 603 I would expect there to be some comment about it. Again it would be very noticeable in photographs. Whatever colour was used in the US as a substitute for MSG I think it must have been very close to MSG.
This German site shows ANA and FS colours. http://www.pmcn.de/weO.htm
I am always wary of colours on computer screens but this site shows ANA 602 Light Gray as a darker grey than LGG FS36440 and more like MSG. Here FS16118 is called Dark Sea Grey.
The only manufacturer that I have found that makes a colour specifically described as ANA 602 is the Czech company Agama. http://www.jadarhobby.waw.pl/agama-c-21_453.html?page=3
Again it is a darker grey than LGG. Unfortunately neither of them gives an FS number equivalent.
wibhi2 wrote:Try these sites for what you are looking for:http://www.cybermodeler.com/resource6.shtmlandhttp://www.geocities.com/yamahaxv920rh/FS1.htmand the best onehttp://www.ipmsstockholm.org/helpdesk.asp#color_charts
Just leaves me more confused. The first site lists ANA 603 as Neutral Gray 43 FS36118 and suggests Humbrol H125 (US Dark Grey). According to Xtracolor US Dark grey is FS16081.
The FS number given as equivalent to Medium Sea Grey is FS26270 which is Neutral Gray.
wibhi2 wrote:Just did a quick comparisson between PS ANA603 and MM 36270 - both of which are neutral greyand both are pretty close. The Polly scale being a smidge more blue.36118 is generally called "gunship grey" which obsivously a dark grey. Looking at my Grunze medium sea grey - It is also close to both the Polly scale and Model Master Neutral grey.FS36081 or FS36118 would probably close to a "slate grey"
The Joint Aircraft Committee formed in April 1941 out of the earlier Army-Navy-British Purchasing Commission Joint Committee. After the entry of the US in to WW II in December 1941 the JAC took into consideration the standardisation of aircraft between the US government and foreign governments and formed a Technical Sub-committee on camouflage in February 1942, to study the possibility of standardising on just a few of the many camouflage colours then in use. In July 1942 agreement was reached on a range of camouflage colours that would ultimately issued as Army-Navy (ANA) Aeronautical 157. ANA 157 Standard colours include ANA 167 for British Dark Earth, USAAF Bulletin 41 Dark Olive Drab 41 for RAF Dark Green, US Navy Light Gray (which later became ANA 602) for British Medium Sea Grey. British Extra Dark Sea Grey was renamed Sea Grey and became ANA 603. (Extra Dark Sea Grey is only slightly darker than Dark Sea Grey so ANA 603 is often described as Dark Sea Grey.) There is no controversy over ANA 603. It was identical to EDSG/DSG and modellers have been using DSG for it for decades. The FS number for ANA 603 is FS36118 and I assume Gunship Gray is just the modern name for it. Xtracolor X130 Gunship Grey FS36118 and X5 EDSG are very nearly identical, X130 being slightly bluer. X4 DSG is very slightly paler than X5 and easy to mistake for being the same colour. Where Neutral Gray comes into it I don’t understand. Sea/Gunship Grey is a much darker colour than Xtracolor X133 Neutral Gray FS16270 and Neutral Gray was never used as a substitute for any British camouflage colours.
The problem is ANA 602 US Navy Light Gray which became FS36440 Light Gull Grey. Light Gull Gray is far too light to have even been considered as a substitute for Medium Sea Grey. It would standout like a sore thumb if it had been used on RAF aircraft. I can only conclude that Navy Light Gray was a much darker grey than LGG and matched MSG. The Cybermodeller site gives two manufacturer’s paints for ANA 602 – Testor’s 505090 and White Ensign’s ACUS05. As best as I can work out the Testor’s colour is just LGG again. However the White Ensign colour is listed as US Navy Light Gray. They also have LGG FS36440 but that is ACUS01. Unfortunately they don’t give an FS number for ACUS05 NLG so I can’t tell if it is just another version of LGG or a match for MSG. (I will try to find out what it is.)
Slate Grey is a very greenish grey that was used with Extra Dark Sea Grey mainly by the Fleet Air Arm and Costal Command on aircraft such as Seafires, Barracudas and flying boat types.