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WHO NEEDS ENGINES ? THE 2017 GLIDER GROUP BUILD

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  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Sunday, November 13, 2016 11:17 PM

Thanks for the info, Andy.  I think I have some photos of that CG-4A. 

Gary, I stuck the window in and painted the inside face as fabric.  As you will see below the outside is sanded smooth and puttied with the rest of the top surface.  Thanks for the heads up, I can't find many photos af a CG-4 with the window installed.  I did find an overhead shot of wrecked CG-4A's at Normandy that did have them.  They also had a white T on top of the fuselage that ended in the middle of the window.  Here is a link to the photo.

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/WACO-CG-4.html

 

Lots of tiny pieces and precious few locating devices today.  Standard early Italeri.
With the fuselage glued together, copious amounts of Tamiya putty was slathered on the top and bottom.  As on the Me-321 they never seem to end up with an even join throughout, and also end up concave in some places.  The skids were removed to do this, easier to sand.
 

 

After sanding.  The top window was sanded smooth and puttied with the rest as almost none of the photos show any window there.
 
 
 
Some left over window decals from the Minicraft C-130-30 were used to replicate instrument faces, which surely were straighter than that when I put them on.
 
 
The landing gear has no positive locating devices, only a raised oval at the top of the oleo strut.  It was a trial but in the end it looks like the photos.  There will be some remediation of glue smudges involved, however.  The tailplane has struts on the bottom and wires on the top up to the rudder.  Holes were drilled for the wires and some Contrail strut stock was used for the struts as Italeri did not capture that detail.  The jury struts have only been glued to the wing struts, not the  wing, so the position of the struts on the fuselage can be set as the wings are attached and get the proper dihedral.  No locating devices here either except for pins that fit in holes at the wing end of the lift struts.  Not enough hinge parts in total were supplied so one on each elevator was left off so none would be missing on the wings and vertical fin where they are more visible.  There should be four on each elevator.  Italeri did provide what looks like flap hinges but there were no flaps on the CG-4A.
 

 

John

To see build logs of my models, go here: http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.htm

  

GAF
  • Member since
    June, 2012
  • From: Longview, TX
Posted by GAF on Monday, November 14, 2016 10:14 AM

jeaton01

Gary, I stuck the window in and painted the inside face as fabric.  As you will see below the outside is sanded smooth and puttied with the rest of the top surface.  Thanks for the heads up, I can't find many photos af a CG-4 with the window installed.  I did find an overhead shot of wrecked CG-4A's at Normandy that did have them.  They also had a white T on top of the fuselage that ended in the middle of the window.  Here is a link to the photo.

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/WACO-CG-4.html

Thanks, John!  I did see that photo, but discounted it as evidence for a glider at Normandy.  Three gliders and not one with invasion markings?  I'm a little unconvinced.

I've sent an e-mail off to the National WWII Glider Pilot's Association about the "skylight" window hope to get an answer in a day or two.  They were very helpful with my questions about the tow ropes and communication cables.

And those landing legs are delicate, so be careful!  I did manage to repair the one I broke, and I would leave them off until last if I were doing this model again.

Thanks!

Gary

PS> Oh, and this probably has some of the best detail shots of a CG-4A I've found.

http://www.maquetland.com/article-phototheque/2874

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Monday, November 14, 2016 11:09 AM

Gary, I hear you on that landing gear.  I'm wondering how well it's going to hold up in the display case.

I have some tow rope attachment pictures on my website for the C-47.

http://www.yolo.net/%7Ejeaton/waco/1cg4c47.htm

I wondered about the stripes, too, although I have seen photos that had only bottom stripes.  They also could be miscaptioned photos from Market Garden, who knows.

John

To see build logs of my models, go here: http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.htm

  

GAF
  • Member since
    June, 2012
  • From: Longview, TX
Posted by GAF on Monday, November 14, 2016 5:27 PM

 John,

So far, after a year, the gear on my CG-4A is holding up fine.  We'll see in a couple of years (in which case I might change it into a LANDED CG-4A)  Big Smile

Received this e-mail back from Mr. Day at the NWWIIGPA:

Gary,

One of many minor changes made during the approximate 3 years of CG-4A production.  Can not give you specific dates as I have never seen a Field Technical Order for installing those windows, TOP and BOTTOM.  It may be that this type of change was not suggested as a field change but only occurred as a production change order for the contractors. At any rate based on photos, (19)42 contract gliders do not seem to have the top windows, but 43 and 45 do.  It is difficult to know if the top and bottom were added at same time but by 1944 it seems that the 43 contract serials and the 45 contract serials that started production in August 1944 had top and bottom windows.  The window was actually four smaller rectangular shapes in a quad.  They were mounted in the fabric same as were the round side windows.  The rectangular windows did not abut down the center line front to back. They were separated several inches apart -- pairs of two side by side with a space between..  Google images and you can find top down photos to give proper location of top windows.  Ignore the pics of models as they seem to have the incorrect size and are too far forward.  There is a pic of the Gibson glider in the NMUSAF in which can be seen the bottom windows.

Charles Day


If you were a Boy Scout or Girl Scout in Clinton County, Ohio,
circa 1943-58, you likely slept in a CG-4A glider shipping crate.
--
Charles L. Day, National Secretary,

National World War II Glider Pilots Association, Inc.
http://www.ww2gp.org/index.php
Author,
Silent Ones WWII Invasion Glider Test & Experiment Clinton County Army Air Field Wilmington Ohio Member,
NWW2GPA, Inc Research Team whose purpose is to provide and preserve Glider Pilot and Troop Carrier information in order to perpetuate the memory of those men, their service to country, and to keepalive the information of the relatively unknown glider program of WWII.

PS> That earlier photo of the landed gliders with the stripe on top is probably from "Operation Varsity", as these markings seem to indicate.

http://www.airbornetroopcarrier.com/glider%20markings%20varsity.html

 

  • Member since
    April, 2004
Posted by Jon_a_its on Tuesday, November 15, 2016 6:02 AM

Choices choices here: 5 Candidates, vote please:

3 up

2 up

1, DFS Habicht, stummel oder Lang

2, SG38

3, Slingsby T31

4, Grunau Baby IIb

5, DFS 230c

& here's one I did earlier......

Horsa-ing around

& here

  • Member since
    May, 2016
Posted by B-36Andy on Tuesday, November 15, 2016 11:42 AM

The Grunau Baby, for sure!!

Most prolific training glider ever made!

I wonder if there are kits of it in 1/48?

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Tuesday, November 15, 2016 11:35 PM

All good choices, but I'll vote for both the SG38 and the Grunau Baby.

Gary, thanks for forwarding the information.  All is lost, we has met the enemy and they is us!

John

To see build logs of my models, go here: http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.htm

  

  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 4:11 AM
Ok, I'll be the odd man out, but I like the DFS 230c

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  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 4:17 AM
Guys, apologies for not updating the participants page, I am having computer problems when I try and edit a post. When I hit the "update discussion topic" button, I get "This site can't be reached" "The connection was reset"

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  • Member since
    April, 2004
Posted by Jon_a_its on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 4:48 AM

Voting closes 31stDEc, as I'm not starting 'owt till then...

1, DFS: 0
2, SG38: 1
3, T31: 0
4, Grunau IIb: 2
5, DFS 230c: 1

 

All the above are 1/48th as is the Fonderies Minitures Horsa, a kit I can attest as the worst kit I've ever managed to finish...

I've got lots of better kits I've not finished, but that's another story...

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Thursday, November 17, 2016 7:25 PM

Once again, too much research is a bad thing if getting the model completed quickly is the goal.  I had planned to model the first CG-4A to land on D-Day and thought I had that all figured out, but then I stumbled on a website that had the real story.  Turns out that the airplane they used was switched a week before because the pilot (who would have a BG aboard) thought it better to have an airplane with the Griswold nose modification.  The first CG-4A had gotten the drag chute modification instead, it was one or the other because there weren't enough kits to go around.  Of course, that meant scratch building the Griswold equipment, and it also meant a whole bunch of new markings which were put on the second CG-4A, making it the most marked up CG-4A of all, I would bet. 
 
Unfortunately being first is not always best.  The pilot, LTC Michael Murphey, found himself landing with a 27 mph tailwind into an 800 foot landing area surrounded by trees, not the promised hedgerows, at 4 AM.  He landed as planned because to not do so would disrupt the flow of the gliders following.  The glider went into the trees on the far side at 50-70 mph.  Brigadier General Don Pratt who was strapped in his seat in the jeep died of a broken neck from whiplash.  LTC Murphey had broken his leg and ankle, and 2Lt John M Butler, the copilot, was killed in the crash.  The last rider was behind the jeep and was not badly hurt.
 
I did the markings in Corel Draw X6, they were printed with an ALPS MD-1000 and a Dell 1250C color laser printer.  Also pictured is the nose section with the Griswold modification, also known as BOGN (bolt on Griswold nose).   I am going to have to make sloppy invasion markings on this one, I also came across a video of a fellow with about a 5 inch brush slapping the markings on a CG-4A.  Not a pretty sight.
 
 
 
 
 

 

John

To see build logs of my models, go here: http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.htm

  

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Saturday, November 19, 2016 1:28 AM

I spent most of the day working on the invasion stripes and trying to replicate sloppy work can be a challenge!  I used some 4 pound test monofilament under the edge of the masking to get a soft edge and did my best to get an uneven appearance.  I'm not totally satisfied but in the absence of hire-able 1/72 scale painters and paint with 1/72 scale viscosity it's my best guess.  Because of the darkness of the OD and my printing method, which is white with an ALPS printer and colored layers with the Dell 1250C laser printer, all the decals go on in three layers.  Two white and one color.  The density of the ALPS white is such that it needs two layers, but you can't print two layers of white because the white ink will not stick to itself in the printing process.  I need to work some more on the border of the fuselage star, I masked off where it went before painting the invasion stripes but there is white showing where the black striping is and I think it should be OD instead.  Still have to put on the wing stars.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

John

To see build logs of my models, go here: http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.htm

  

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Sunday, November 20, 2016 12:56 AM

It's in the display case.  Next is the Airfix new tool C-47 to tow it.  I left the nose so it can be moved, it's not a great fit closed but I want the ability to pose it in a loading situation and still have it so a viewer can see what it looks like closed up.  I added the Griswold nose and Parker skid, brace wires and struts to the tail, and separated the elevators to pose them relaxed.  The challenges on this kit (there's always a challenge, isn't there?) are many fine parts with no positive mounting locations, seams on the fuselage in the middle of large flat areas that are work to end up with no seam and flat surfaces, and just generally all the handling you have to do in the finishing process with a lot of delicate parts hanging out. 
 
This was a presentation airplane, paid for with funds collected by schoolchildren from Greenfield Michigan.  The fund drive was successful enough that three CG-4A's were funded.  The Fighting Falcon legend is in reference to that accomplishment.
 
 
 
 
 

John

To see build logs of my models, go here: http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.htm

  

  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Wednesday, November 23, 2016 3:20 AM

John lovely work ! You must be retired, to build so quick (wish I had the time) Looking forward to the C47, but this one is a real keeper. Once again, very well done Sir ! (still having troubles updating the participants page - bear with me)

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  • Member since
    February, 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Wednesday, November 23, 2016 12:06 PM

Hmmmm - count me in - I've got Special Hobby's 1/72 "Schülgleiter" kit in the stash just waiting for an excuse to be built.

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    May, 2016
Posted by B-36Andy on Wednesday, November 23, 2016 2:33 PM
Looking good John!
  • Member since
    May, 2016
Posted by B-36Andy on Wednesday, November 23, 2016 2:36 PM

Just bought a 1/48 Minimoa kit. Has any one thought about doing a clear varnish plywwod finish with the wood grain decals that are available?

Who makes these decals in 1/48?

  • Member since
    April, 2004
Posted by Jon_a_its on Thursday, November 24, 2016 4:52 AM
Ushi Van De Rosten (sp) do 1/48th woodgrain, you will have to ask re US suppliers. There are tutorials on how to do wood graining on youtube
  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Friday, November 25, 2016 12:22 PM

Thanks for the nice comments, everyoneSmile  Yes, Wirraway, I am retired.  I still work a little but on my schedule mostly.

John

To see build logs of my models, go here: http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.htm

  

  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Wednesday, December 07, 2016 2:39 AM

Vance,  welcome aboard.  You are on the list.  Now we just need to slow John down as he is in danger of finishing before the start date !

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  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Wednesday, December 07, 2016 10:06 AM

No danger, Wirraway.  I have an inquiry in to the Air Force history office trying to find which C-47 towed the Fighting Falcon so I can put the C-47 in those markings.  It should be a couple of weeks at the soonest.  Got more gliders anyway.

John

To see build logs of my models, go here: http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.htm

  

  • Member since
    March, 2007
  • From: NJ
Posted by JMart on Saturday, December 10, 2016 3:18 PM
John – That is a great build, thanks for sharing. Love the picture quality.
I would like to join the GB, but will probably be a couple months till I start, have other builds in the queue at the moment. New subject for me, should be interesting!
I have two gliders in my stash: Czech Model 1:48 BV-40 Armored Glider
 
 
 
 
Special Hobby 1:48 DFS 230C  - Rumanian Service 

 

 

  

  • Member since
    July, 2013
Posted by IL2windhawk on Friday, December 23, 2016 12:03 PM

Count me in..  I'll be doing a space shuttle orbiter.    J/K!! Whistling

 

Put me down for a 1/32 Revell ASK-21.

I'm a glider pilot, and I built a couple of these for my instructors.  Now I want one for myself :)

ASK-21 model

Here are the ships that we fly in my glider club.  Grob-103s. They are like budget ASK-21s.

Grob 103 Morgan

  1/32 Revell Duo Discus
  1/32 Revell ASK-21
  1/48 Ardpol SZD-51 Junior
  1/48 Czech Models Grumman Goose
  1/144 FineMolds Millennium Falcon

  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 4:15 AM

Welcome aboard ! Travel

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  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 6:24 AM
John I've been meaning to ask you about the Zwilling towing the Gigant. Did you find out anything about the towing points ? I assume the Germans used thick rope for towing gliders ? My diorama will have the zwilling attached to the Gigant so I need to establish where the attachment points were and a suitable scal rope/cable.

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  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 8:10 AM

Wirraway, I read that 10 mm steel cable was used.  I found one poor photo that looked like there were two attach points on the 321, at the front of each lower longeron.  On the He-111Z there is a photo that shows the cable attach points at about the rear spar and behind the two engines in the middle section closest to the fuselages.  I think a Y-harness must have been used on both ends but don't have photographic proof of that.

John

To see build logs of my models, go here: http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.htm

  

  • Member since
    April, 2004
Posted by Jon_a_its on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 12:18 PM

DFS 230 first please jmart then the ram ship

& now John has limbered up, what's his 'main course' going to be?Wink

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Wednesday, December 28, 2016 1:03 PM

I seem to have an Italeri Horsa, four actually, how did I manage that?  Since spare parts will not be a challenge I will do one of those.  Also a Horten IV by Planet.

John

To see build logs of my models, go here: http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.htm

  

  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Friday, January 06, 2017 11:06 PM

Thanks for the info John.  That presents me with a whole new set of challenges !  I have just cracked the box on the Me 321.  Forgotten how big this thing is.  But I was pretty happy with how my Me 323 diorama came out, so looking forward to it.  This Old Testors Kit is OLD (1979)  Decals are cracked, still dont know whether to coat them in microscale or look for replacements.  I think I will be diving into the fuselage and the many small windows tonight !

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  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Tuesday, January 10, 2017 2:39 AM

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