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WHO NEEDS ENGINES ? THE 2017 GLIDER GROUP BUILD

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  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:39 AM

Vance,  welcome aboard.  You are on the list.  Now we just need to slow John down as he is in danger of finishing before the start date !

"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional"

" A hobby should pass the time - not fill it"  -Norman Bates

 

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Friday, November 25, 2016 12:22 PM

Thanks for the nice comments, everyoneSmile  Yes, Wirraway, I am retired.  I still work a little but on my schedule mostly.

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Jon_a_its on Thursday, November 24, 2016 4:52 AM
Ushi Van De Rosten (sp) do 1/48th woodgrain, you will have to ask re US suppliers. There are tutorials on how to do wood graining on youtube

East Mids Model Club 32nd Annual Show 2nd April 2023

 http://www.eastmidsmodelclub.co.uk/

Don't feed the CM!

 

  • Member since
    May 2016
Posted by B-36Andy on Wednesday, November 23, 2016 2:36 PM

Just bought a 1/48 Minimoa kit. Has any one thought about doing a clear varnish plywwod finish with the wood grain decals that are available?

Who makes these decals in 1/48?

  • Member since
    May 2016
Posted by B-36Andy on Wednesday, November 23, 2016 2:33 PM
Looking good John!
  • Member since
    February 2003
  • From: Rothesay, NB Canada
Posted by VanceCrozier on Wednesday, November 23, 2016 12:06 PM

Hmmmm - count me in - I've got Special Hobby's 1/72 "Schülgleiter" kit in the stash just waiting for an excuse to be built.

On the bench: Airfix 1/72 Wildcat; Airfix 1/72 Vampire T11; Airfix 1/72 Fouga Magister

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Wednesday, November 23, 2016 3:20 AM

John lovely work ! You must be retired, to build so quick (wish I had the time) Looking forward to the C47, but this one is a real keeper. Once again, very well done Sir ! (still having troubles updating the participants page - bear with me)

"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional"

" A hobby should pass the time - not fill it"  -Norman Bates

 

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Sunday, November 20, 2016 12:56 AM

It's in the display case.  Next is the Airfix new tool C-47 to tow it.  I left the nose so it can be moved, it's not a great fit closed but I want the ability to pose it in a loading situation and still have it so a viewer can see what it looks like closed up.  I added the Griswold nose and Parker skid, brace wires and struts to the tail, and separated the elevators to pose them relaxed.  The challenges on this kit (there's always a challenge, isn't there?) are many fine parts with no positive mounting locations, seams on the fuselage in the middle of large flat areas that are work to end up with no seam and flat surfaces, and just generally all the handling you have to do in the finishing process with a lot of delicate parts hanging out. 
 
This was a presentation airplane, paid for with funds collected by schoolchildren from Greenfield Michigan.  The fund drive was successful enough that three CG-4A's were funded.  The Fighting Falcon legend is in reference to that accomplishment.
 
 
 
 
 

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Saturday, November 19, 2016 1:28 AM

I spent most of the day working on the invasion stripes and trying to replicate sloppy work can be a challenge!  I used some 4 pound test monofilament under the edge of the masking to get a soft edge and did my best to get an uneven appearance.  I'm not totally satisfied but in the absence of hire-able 1/72 scale painters and paint with 1/72 scale viscosity it's my best guess.  Because of the darkness of the OD and my printing method, which is white with an ALPS printer and colored layers with the Dell 1250C laser printer, all the decals go on in three layers.  Two white and one color.  The density of the ALPS white is such that it needs two layers, but you can't print two layers of white because the white ink will not stick to itself in the printing process.  I need to work some more on the border of the fuselage star, I masked off where it went before painting the invasion stripes but there is white showing where the black striping is and I think it should be OD instead.  Still have to put on the wing stars.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Thursday, November 17, 2016 7:25 PM

Once again, too much research is a bad thing if getting the model completed quickly is the goal.  I had planned to model the first CG-4A to land on D-Day and thought I had that all figured out, but then I stumbled on a website that had the real story.  Turns out that the airplane they used was switched a week before because the pilot (who would have a BG aboard) thought it better to have an airplane with the Griswold nose modification.  The first CG-4A had gotten the drag chute modification instead, it was one or the other because there weren't enough kits to go around.  Of course, that meant scratch building the Griswold equipment, and it also meant a whole bunch of new markings which were put on the second CG-4A, making it the most marked up CG-4A of all, I would bet. 
 
Unfortunately being first is not always best.  The pilot, LTC Michael Murphey, found himself landing with a 27 mph tailwind into an 800 foot landing area surrounded by trees, not the promised hedgerows, at 4 AM.  He landed as planned because to not do so would disrupt the flow of the gliders following.  The glider went into the trees on the far side at 50-70 mph.  Brigadier General Don Pratt who was strapped in his seat in the jeep died of a broken neck from whiplash.  LTC Murphey had broken his leg and ankle, and 2Lt John M Butler, the copilot, was killed in the crash.  The last rider was behind the jeep and was not badly hurt.
 
I did the markings in Corel Draw X6, they were printed with an ALPS MD-1000 and a Dell 1250C color laser printer.  Also pictured is the nose section with the Griswold modification, also known as BOGN (bolt on Griswold nose).   I am going to have to make sloppy invasion markings on this one, I also came across a video of a fellow with about a 5 inch brush slapping the markings on a CG-4A.  Not a pretty sight.
 
 
 
 
 

 

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Jon_a_its on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 4:48 AM

Voting closes 31stDEc, as I'm not starting 'owt till then...

1, DFS: 0
2, SG38: 1
3, T31: 0
4, Grunau IIb: 2
5, DFS 230c: 1

 

All the above are 1/48th as is the Fonderies Minitures Horsa, a kit I can attest as the worst kit I've ever managed to finish...

I've got lots of better kits I've not finished, but that's another story...

 

East Mids Model Club 32nd Annual Show 2nd April 2023

 http://www.eastmidsmodelclub.co.uk/

Don't feed the CM!

 

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 4:17 AM
Guys, apologies for not updating the participants page, I am having computer problems when I try and edit a post. When I hit the "update discussion topic" button, I get "This site can't be reached" "The connection was reset"

"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional"

" A hobby should pass the time - not fill it"  -Norman Bates

 

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  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Wednesday, November 16, 2016 4:11 AM
Ok, I'll be the odd man out, but I like the DFS 230c

"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional"

" A hobby should pass the time - not fill it"  -Norman Bates

 

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Tuesday, November 15, 2016 11:35 PM

All good choices, but I'll vote for both the SG38 and the Grunau Baby.

Gary, thanks for forwarding the information.  All is lost, we has met the enemy and they is us!

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    May 2016
Posted by B-36Andy on Tuesday, November 15, 2016 11:42 AM

The Grunau Baby, for sure!!

Most prolific training glider ever made!

I wonder if there are kits of it in 1/48?

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Jon_a_its on Tuesday, November 15, 2016 6:02 AM

Choices choices here: 5 Candidates, vote please:

3 up

2 up

1, DFS Habicht, stummel oder Lang

2, SG38

3, Slingsby T31

4, Grunau Baby IIb

5, DFS 230c

& here's one I did earlier......

Horsa-ing around

& here

East Mids Model Club 32nd Annual Show 2nd April 2023

 http://www.eastmidsmodelclub.co.uk/

Don't feed the CM!

 

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Monday, November 14, 2016 5:27 PM

 John,

So far, after a year, the gear on my CG-4A is holding up fine.  We'll see in a couple of years (in which case I might change it into a LANDED CG-4A)  Big Smile

Received this e-mail back from Mr. Day at the NWWIIGPA:

Gary,

One of many minor changes made during the approximate 3 years of CG-4A production.  Can not give you specific dates as I have never seen a Field Technical Order for installing those windows, TOP and BOTTOM.  It may be that this type of change was not suggested as a field change but only occurred as a production change order for the contractors. At any rate based on photos, (19)42 contract gliders do not seem to have the top windows, but 43 and 45 do.  It is difficult to know if the top and bottom were added at same time but by 1944 it seems that the 43 contract serials and the 45 contract serials that started production in August 1944 had top and bottom windows.  The window was actually four smaller rectangular shapes in a quad.  They were mounted in the fabric same as were the round side windows.  The rectangular windows did not abut down the center line front to back. They were separated several inches apart -- pairs of two side by side with a space between..  Google images and you can find top down photos to give proper location of top windows.  Ignore the pics of models as they seem to have the incorrect size and are too far forward.  There is a pic of the Gibson glider in the NMUSAF in which can be seen the bottom windows.

Charles Day


If you were a Boy Scout or Girl Scout in Clinton County, Ohio,
circa 1943-58, you likely slept in a CG-4A glider shipping crate.
--
Charles L. Day, National Secretary,

National World War II Glider Pilots Association, Inc.
http://www.ww2gp.org/index.php
Author,
Silent Ones WWII Invasion Glider Test & Experiment Clinton County Army Air Field Wilmington Ohio Member,
NWW2GPA, Inc Research Team whose purpose is to provide and preserve Glider Pilot and Troop Carrier information in order to perpetuate the memory of those men, their service to country, and to keepalive the information of the relatively unknown glider program of WWII.

PS> That earlier photo of the landed gliders with the stripe on top is probably from "Operation Varsity", as these markings seem to indicate.

http://www.airbornetroopcarrier.com/glider%20markings%20varsity.html

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Monday, November 14, 2016 11:09 AM

Gary, I hear you on that landing gear.  I'm wondering how well it's going to hold up in the display case.

I have some tow rope attachment pictures on my website for the C-47.

http://www.yolo.net/%7Ejeaton/waco/1cg4c47.htm

I wondered about the stripes, too, although I have seen photos that had only bottom stripes.  They also could be miscaptioned photos from Market Garden, who knows.

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Monday, November 14, 2016 10:14 AM

jeaton01

Gary, I stuck the window in and painted the inside face as fabric.  As you will see below the outside is sanded smooth and puttied with the rest of the top surface.  Thanks for the heads up, I can't find many photos af a CG-4 with the window installed.  I did find an overhead shot of wrecked CG-4A's at Normandy that did have them.  They also had a white T on top of the fuselage that ended in the middle of the window.  Here is a link to the photo.

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/WACO-CG-4.html

Thanks, John!  I did see that photo, but discounted it as evidence for a glider at Normandy.  Three gliders and not one with invasion markings?  I'm a little unconvinced.

I've sent an e-mail off to the National WWII Glider Pilot's Association about the "skylight" window hope to get an answer in a day or two.  They were very helpful with my questions about the tow ropes and communication cables.

And those landing legs are delicate, so be careful!  I did manage to repair the one I broke, and I would leave them off until last if I were doing this model again.

Thanks!

Gary

PS> Oh, and this probably has some of the best detail shots of a CG-4A I've found.

http://www.maquetland.com/article-phototheque/2874

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Sunday, November 13, 2016 11:17 PM

Thanks for the info, Andy.  I think I have some photos of that CG-4A. 

Gary, I stuck the window in and painted the inside face as fabric.  As you will see below the outside is sanded smooth and puttied with the rest of the top surface.  Thanks for the heads up, I can't find many photos af a CG-4 with the window installed.  I did find an overhead shot of wrecked CG-4A's at Normandy that did have them.  They also had a white T on top of the fuselage that ended in the middle of the window.  Here is a link to the photo.

http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/models/aircraft/WACO-CG-4.html

 

Lots of tiny pieces and precious few locating devices today.  Standard early Italeri.
With the fuselage glued together, copious amounts of Tamiya putty was slathered on the top and bottom.  As on the Me-321 they never seem to end up with an even join throughout, and also end up concave in some places.  The skids were removed to do this, easier to sand.
 

 

After sanding.  The top window was sanded smooth and puttied with the rest as almost none of the photos show any window there.
 
 
 
Some left over window decals from the Minicraft C-130-30 were used to replicate instrument faces, which surely were straighter than that when I put them on.
 
 
The landing gear has no positive locating devices, only a raised oval at the top of the oleo strut.  It was a trial but in the end it looks like the photos.  There will be some remediation of glue smudges involved, however.  The tailplane has struts on the bottom and wires on the top up to the rudder.  Holes were drilled for the wires and some Contrail strut stock was used for the struts as Italeri did not capture that detail.  The jury struts have only been glued to the wing struts, not the  wing, so the position of the struts on the fuselage can be set as the wings are attached and get the proper dihedral.  No locating devices here either except for pins that fit in holes at the wing end of the lift struts.  Not enough hinge parts in total were supplied so one on each elevator was left off so none would be missing on the wings and vertical fin where they are more visible.  There should be four on each elevator.  Italeri did provide what looks like flap hinges but there were no flaps on the CG-4A.
 

 

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    May 2016
Posted by B-36Andy on Sunday, November 13, 2016 5:57 PM

Just a few notes on our glider build---

-There is nicely restored CG4a at the Silent Wings Museum at Lubbock, Texas---possibly they have some nice pics--

Early in WWII the Luftwaffe squadrons had one or two small gliders (Grunau Babies, etc) tucked away in the backs of hangers for off duty recreational flying. They didn't have crosses on wings but were marked WL- with 3 alphabet letters (WL-GRF as example), and were either grey or clear doped. WL is designation for Wermacht Luft or Luftwaffe.

Also right after the war, German glider clubs used the wood from the many abandoned CG4a's to make sport gliders. It was illegal to fly at that time by Germans, but they flew secretly at night by moonlight! (How do you separate the Germans from their gliding?--you can't!)

This info from my old German Flying instructor---- 

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Saturday, November 12, 2016 8:55 PM

Ah, thanks John!  I see what you mean about the leading edge.  Might be difficult to model that without exaggerating the droop.  Perhaps by gluing a very thin piece of plasti-card along the front edge of the bottom of the wing, then sanding it down might give the appearance of a droop, but it wouldn't quite be correct.

Anyway, thought I would mention the top window since I missed it on my build.  I now have to decide what I'm going to do about it.  Let me know what you come up with.  Big Smile

Gary

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Saturday, November 12, 2016 5:38 PM

Hi, Gary.  Probably better to leave the top window out, based on this photo from the assembly area at Greenham Common.  Below that a photo of the wing root, see how the leading edge droops, that's often callled a cuff.  You can see it on an Ercoupe's wing, and also on late model Cessna 185's or others with Owl or Roberstson STOL conversions.  Gives a milder stall at a lower airspeed.

 

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

GAF
  • Member since
    June 2012
  • From: Anniston, AL
Posted by GAF on Saturday, November 12, 2016 1:37 PM

Nice work, John!  Glad to see someone else tackle the WACO.  Those seats (for passengers) are pretty much imaginary as everything I've seen make them out to be box-like structures.  These included in the kit look like something out of a Korean War ambulance.

Oh, and here's a nice exterior shot.  Was wondering about those "cuffs" you mentioned?

Notice that there's no top window on this version?  Smile  I've put a stop to my diorama because I don't think these CG-4As had a window in the top of the fuselage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2tjVJ2LT9o

Gary

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Saturday, November 12, 2016 10:26 AM

A little more done on the CG-4A.  The interior provided by Italeri has floor and seats extending aft of the side door and I was lazy and did it that way, but I am 99% sure that there were no seats aft of the side door.  I added a seatback rail from Plastruct strip.  The wood areas were painted Model Master Wood and overcoated with Tamiya Clear orange.  MM Radome Tan was used for the fabric areas, and interior green for the steel tubing, of which far too little is in evidence.  I replaced the kit skid mounts with plastruct channel, looks more like the box arrangement on the original.  Fairly sloppy paint work, I admit, but once the model is closed up only what little that can be seen through the door and a possibly open front section will be visible.
 
 
 

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Monday, November 7, 2016 11:46 PM

Made a little start on the CG-4A today, it's an old Italeri kit I've had in the stash for a long time, maybe 20 years.  In the past I did a lot of research on the CG-4A, developing plans for an R/C model.  There is more information available now, and more restored examples, but 30 years ago people were more interested in using the boxes they were shipped in or cutting them up for a source for 4130 tubing.

I'm not going to get too serious about an accurate interior and Italeri must not have had much to go on as they put in sticks where the real thing had big round control wheels that hung from the ceiling via a big Y-shaped tubing structure.  It was that way because all the cable control runs had to go over the top of the cabin due to the nose hingeing up for loading and unloading.  All the structural tubing was visible in the cabin, you could touch the outer fabric most everywhere but the floor.  The exterior is pretty good, and all the shapes look good.  THe CG-4A had a cuff on the leading edge of the wing that is pretty obvious to give it a very mild stall and they did not get that.  Whatever, it's good enough to go in my model museum behind a soon to be started Airfix C-47, keeping company with the Me-321 and He-111Z.

But first a couple of photos of the real thing:

 

These guys do not seem to have a real positive attitude about their situation, do they.

Here's the Italeri cockpit under construction.

 

 

The seat arrangement is more like a modern helicopter rather than the rudimentary plywood affair in the picture above, but basically they are in the right locations.  I couldn't figure out what Italeri had in mind as to installing the supports under the seats, they have to be spaced properly so the floor fits, but you have to put in the seats before you put in the floor, at least on one side.  I solved the problem by putting the floor in place and drilling indentations where the floor was relieved for the legs.  I attached the legs to the seats using very thin glue from a Touch-n-Flow applicator, similar to Tenax, then put that section of seat in place using the indentations to locate the legs.  There are a lot of little tiny parts here!

 

 

I wanted to pose the elevators deflected down for a little animation, so I scored them using a JLC saw and the back side of a #11 exacto blade, bent them when the cuts were deep enough and flowed some glue into the joins on top and bottom.  It's always an issue trying to get equal deflection, but I solved that with a Rube Goldberg construct, both stabilizers are clamped in the big clamp and the clothespin holds both elevators.

 

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Sunday, November 6, 2016 5:27 AM
Jon, climb aboard anytime ! John, That build looks great- those little Airfix 1/72 Halftrack towing an 88 goes well doesnt it ? I used the same for my Me323 build. Have got you on the schedule

"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional"

" A hobby should pass the time - not fill it"  -Norman Bates

 

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  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Northern California
Posted by jeaton01 on Thursday, November 3, 2016 11:44 PM

Wirraway, sign me up for the Italeri Waco CG-4A.  By the way, I did the Italeri/Testors Me-321/He-111Z combo a few years ago, there's a build log for them on my web site here and here

 

 

John

To see build logs for my models:  http://goldeneramodel.com/mymodels/mymodels.html

 

  • Member since
    April 2004
Posted by Jon_a_its on Tuesday, November 1, 2016 8:22 AM

Hmm...

have a few candidates, 1 year build time, lists still open?

East Mids Model Club 32nd Annual Show 2nd April 2023

 http://www.eastmidsmodelclub.co.uk/

Don't feed the CM!

 

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Pineapple Country, Queensland, Australia
Posted by Wirraway on Tuesday, November 1, 2016 2:18 AM
Done- thanks for the heads up John

"Growing old is inevitable; growing up is optional"

" A hobby should pass the time - not fill it"  -Norman Bates

 

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