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75th Anniversary of 1943 (World at War)

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  • Member since
    February, 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Sunday, April 29, 2018 10:38 PM
Jim Baumann the uber-guru at ModelWarship is a stretched sprue fan - he has also been known to spend two months rigging his ships. The ability to stretch under some smoke from an incense stick is helpful - if it doesn't break. My problem is that I always rebuild masts in brass and can't figure a good cement for sprue. Baumann uses Revell plastic - I find that plastic cement melts the sprue on brass. Freetime sells EZ Line, but I prefer a Lycra rigging line from Infini - comes in lots of sizes down to 20 denier (beyond thin). I'm too old for 40 denier. I'd use 70 denier on a 1/700 ship - 110 denier on anything else. But that's me, not the ideal. Specialized monofilament - which comes in extremely thin sizes now (figure about 30 denier) is easier to work with, tightens under heat like sprue, but is really tough to cut close to the contact point. That's good for fishing, but not so good rigging. I think the 110 Infini might be very good for rigging biplanes and takes to Super Glue extremely well and works great for antennas. 145FT for $12: actually quite a bit. Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    February, 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Sunday, April 29, 2018 11:11 PM

WC

I did the Scharnhorst a couple of years back - nice kit considering the age. I painted it for the dance at the Battle of the Cape (if battle is the right word.)

You've got me thinking. You have to paint and assemble ships via components. I've never even thought of trying to rig them that way - always been afraid of damaging the rigging. But if only assembly was left - weathering and everything done - your way might work very nicely. It would be a lot easier to do fine, short rigging that way. I'll try that out. I don't have a ship up in the near future but I've got a Trumpeter 1/350 England and a 1/350 Dragon Z-31 (which got stuck in arctic ice - very neat dio possibilities there) in the stash. Might move one of them up a slot.

Eric

 

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Sunday, April 29, 2018 11:14 PM

Eric,

I like Revell plastic as well and usually cut a few sprues to keep for stretching. I've gotten the process down to where I can stretch the sprue down to a hair size, I can't even see it LOL. It takes some practice to pick those up with a pair of tweezers without bending them. After cutting it to length (I've messed up too many things cutting the sprue after installing it) I'll dip one end into a drop of thick CA, apply the sprue to the mast and let it lay where I want it while it dries. After I have a few "lines" laying on a single point I'll touch the area with just a tad of thin CA. I do not apply any kind of accelerator unless I want to mess stuff up for good. The accelerator will melt the sprue and cause complications if you want to try that area again. I have tried the punk smoke technique with mixed results. Sometimes it works but mostly I melt the lines. Now that is more frustrating than installing them in the first place.

I'm hoping to take this to Eagle Quest in June, if I can finish it in time. This and the Kirishima I built for the Japanese GB.

Steve

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  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Sunday, April 29, 2018 11:19 PM

EBergerud

WC

I did the Scharnhorst a couple of years back - nice kit considering the age. I painted it for the dance at the Battle of the Cape (if battle is the right word.)

You've got me thinking. You have to paint and assemble ships via components. I've never even thought of trying to rig them that way - always been afraid of damaging the rigging. But if only assembly was left - weathering and everything done - your way might work very nicely. It would be a lot easier to do fine, short rigging that way. I'll try that out. I don't have a ship up in the near future but I've got a Trumpeter 1/350 England and a 1/350 Dragon Z-31 (which got stuck in arctic ice - very neat dio possibilities there) in the stash. Might move one of them up a slot.

Eric

Thanks again Eric, I've always had issues with rigging after everything was assembled. The are a few lines that will need to be installed after but for the most part, doning them as sub-assemblies just seemed locical to me, especially since these sub-assemblies are the same color.

I have the 1/350 Trumpy Z-37 and have been thinking about an ice dio as well. Great minds think alike.

 

Edit Dragon not Trumpy

Steve

ON THE BENCH

1/35 Hobby Boss Fieseler Storch
1/72 Hasegawa Nell
1/48 Tamiya Swordfish
1/350 Tamiya Prince of Wales

In Que

1/700 Tamiya King George V

 

  • Member since
    April, 2005
  • From: Australia
Posted by taxtp on Sunday, April 29, 2018 11:31 PM

Thats looking great Steve. I'll be watching closely. Thanks for the info on the PE.

Cheers

Tony

I'm just taking it one GB at a time.

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Tuesday, May 01, 2018 5:45 PM

Thanks Tony,

I sprayed all the little bits that need to be added to the deck my usual Alclad gloss black base. I don't know why I use it, probably because it's the only lacqure black I have. Anyway, once I spray the base color on it will look great. The black also adds to the shadows. Tomorrow will be the German Grey base color.

Steve

ON THE BENCH

1/35 Hobby Boss Fieseler Storch
1/72 Hasegawa Nell
1/48 Tamiya Swordfish
1/350 Tamiya Prince of Wales

In Que

1/700 Tamiya King George V

 

  • Member since
    September, 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Tuesday, May 01, 2018 8:54 PM

I'm amazed that the rigging didn't blow away when you sprayed it, Steve!  Surprise

 

Nulla Rosa Sine Spina

 

 

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Tuesday, May 01, 2018 9:35 PM

Yeah, I was concerned about that.

Steve

ON THE BENCH

1/35 Hobby Boss Fieseler Storch
1/72 Hasegawa Nell
1/48 Tamiya Swordfish
1/350 Tamiya Prince of Wales

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  • Member since
    February, 2010
  • From: Berkeley CA/St. Paul MN
Posted by EBergerud on Tuesday, May 01, 2018 11:45 PM
Making Sprue: I think Jim Baumann's technique is perfect. (Anyone building a ship must register at ModelWarship.com. It's a splendid place for information and techniques. You don't get the kind of feedback on a WIP as you'd find here. Baumann is ModelWarship's uber guru with a collection of ships that's jaw dropping. He favors 1/700 scale. Chris Floodberg is another guru who specializes in 1/350 and sea bases. Anyone can search their gallery. David Griffiths has written the best two modern books about ship modeling.) Anyway, if you do ships you need this site just as much as anyone doing WWI biplanes needs https://www.ww1aircraftmodels.com/) OK: sprue. Get a nice piece of sprue (some old Revelogram used black plastic, but it doesn't matter. Put a piece card stock or a post card on your bench. Use a lighter to start the sprue piece on fire. Within a second of two (just as long as it's on fire) blow it out and immediately stick the burned end into the card. As soon as it's down, slowly pull back. This is much better than melting the middle of a sprue piece. It's got a learning curve, but very short - maybe 5 minutes. Once you get it down, you can make sprue of almost any thickness or length. The technique is detailed on ModelWarship. Think I'll start the T-34 tonight. I've never done a T-34. About time I suppose. Eric

 

A model boat is much cheaper than a real one and won't sink with you in it.

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, May 02, 2018 1:57 AM

I was woundering about spraying that with the rigging on as well, but its come out great Steve.

''I am a Norfolk man, and i glory in being so''

 

On the bench: Amusing Hobby 1/35th Lowe

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Wednesday, May 02, 2018 10:01 AM

Thanks Eric and Bish.

Eric, I have been a menber of Modelwarships for a few years now. If you chack under my name Steve Luckinbill in the "modlers" section you can see my past submissions. Not all ships but all water related.

I do use Jim's method for sprue and you can get those things down to smaller than a hair doing it that way. My water is done following Chris' method however I do add my own unique twist to suit my style. I doubt I will ever be as good as some of those guys on that forum. Your right, their feedback on a WIP is tougher than here, but that's what those guys do, ships, and they know everything about them.

Steve

Steve

ON THE BENCH

1/35 Hobby Boss Fieseler Storch
1/72 Hasegawa Nell
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1/700 Tamiya King George V

 

  • Member since
    September, 2016
  • From: Albany, New York
Posted by ManCityFan on Wednesday, May 02, 2018 10:27 AM

Hey Steve, your rigging looks great!  Stretching sprue is not a skill I have yet (not for lack of trying...).   So Eric, thanks for the explanation of Jim's technique.  Sprue I got.  Time for some practice. 

I am enjoying your WIP, Steve.  I only have one old Bismarck model in my stash as far as ships (Revell 1/570 scale, circa 1986).  But I got it, so it needs to be built at some point, and seeing what you do is really helpful.

Looking forward to seeing more progress!

Dwayne or Dman or just D.  All comments are welcome on my builds. 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Thursday, May 03, 2018 10:54 PM

Thanks D!

Here is the subs all painted German Grey. Man that's a dark color! I am debating painting the turret tops light grey. I've seen some pictures of her in 43 with and without the light grey tops but nothing I can decipher for Dec 43.

What do you guys think? What would you like to see? I'm not sure it matters either way.I can't find anything on it. Some you you guys with WAY more nautical knowlage than me may know.

Steve

Steve

ON THE BENCH

1/35 Hobby Boss Fieseler Storch
1/72 Hasegawa Nell
1/48 Tamiya Swordfish
1/350 Tamiya Prince of Wales

In Que

1/700 Tamiya King George V

 

  • Member since
    April, 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Friday, May 04, 2018 1:23 AM

Steve, great looking work on the Scharnhorst, and will have to remember that build option to add rigging during sub-assemblies.

Looks like you are doing the second last scheme that was carried between March to July 1943?    There is a time line set out here for her various schemes:

http://www.kbismarck.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=450&p=24901

The only white turret tops I see during 1943 is on her final paint job, but only the front or back half of the tops are light coloured. 

 If it is actual war time photos you see light tops, could it  just be light reflection on horizontal surfaces?

http://www.historyphotos.org/galleries/scharnhorst-1943

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Friday, May 04, 2018 10:19 AM

Thanks Jack, those are some great links. Leave it the the members here to help out.

Yeah, I WAS NOT going to go with that scheme, however in the bottom link photos 1943 09, 1943 34, 1943 36 show my scheme and white turret (light grey?) tops.

Looking at a few sites there are some confusions on time frame (it's Jan 43 I'm looking at not Dec, sorry, age and meds)

Anyway, it seems from the Z37 Wiki page and

http://www.kbismarck.com/scharnhorst.html

"23 January 1943: Sails for Norway again with Prinz Eugen but is detected one more time by British planes and therefore returns to the Baltic."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_destroyer_Z37

"On 23 January 1943 Z37 set out as part of the escort for the battleship Scharnhorst and heavy cruiser Prinz Eugen from the Baltic sea to Norway, but the operation was cancelled when the force was spotted by British aircraft."

So, since I'm looking at Jan 43, your first link is showing the dark German grey and light grey bow and stern, with dark turret tops however the dates it states is after March, before that in 42 the ship was light grey with light blue turret tops. They also state the ship was in dry dock until March 43 which conflict with the two statements from two above sites so.......I think the camo is correct but back to the turret tops. The three pictures I noted show them light. Ship research is a real pain, ships change so much. That's what's nice about the Bismarck, it only had different schemes and those are easy to pin down. There are also a few changes on the fore radar mast (square not round) for 43 that I would have to scratch to make correct but I'm hoping there aren't any Scharnhorst fan boy rivet counters at Eagle Quest but just people who appreciate the work. There probably will be.

So again, turret tops? I'm leaning light grey.

Maybe I should have just covered her with ice, picture 1943 61,62,63,64,67 and 68. Picture 69 is intresting with the destroyers tied up next to her, also shows light turret tops. But if I do that with Z37 I won't be able to show off my water skills LOL Wink

I do want to show an Ice scene, maybe with the Tirpitz and Z38.

Steve

Steve

ON THE BENCH

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1/72 Hasegawa Nell
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1/700 Tamiya King George V

 

  • Member since
    April, 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Friday, May 04, 2018 11:40 AM

Steve, my opinion is that the turret tops are the same shade of gray as the sides.  To me it looks like the sun is making them look lighter due to the angles.  Also, comparing the range finder hoods, the sides look to be the same dark tone:

In the rear view shot, the angled turret roof section at the base of the gun barrels looks to be the same dark tone:

Also, looking at past schemes, the turrets were always the same as the base colour or darker, the only time they could have been lighter is when they were specifically painted a bright shade for air recognition - I think at this point of the war camouflage was more important? I could be wrong though, and the range finder hoods were left dark? 

 

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Friday, May 04, 2018 12:02 PM

I see that, good catch Jack. They stay dark grey, less work for me LOL.

Thank you for your help.

Steve

Steve

ON THE BENCH

1/35 Hobby Boss Fieseler Storch
1/72 Hasegawa Nell
1/48 Tamiya Swordfish
1/350 Tamiya Prince of Wales

In Que

1/700 Tamiya King George V

 

  • Member since
    April, 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Friday, May 04, 2018 1:51 PM

Steve, you can always embellish the light source, giving the tops a bit lighter look to them just to make it more interesting - I mean this is what the current trend is in other genres of the hobby.

Anyhow, I did find it interesting that one of the most recent publications on KM colours have illustrated an example with light tops right on the front cover of their book.  Compared to actual photo, they have taken artistic license I think, and have (mistakenly?) given it a dazzle scheme which is really a destroyer docked beside it.

I've seen the DD identified as Z15 and Z33, and being dated winter 1943.

 

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, May 04, 2018 2:12 PM

Great detective work there Jack. Interesting that it has the yellow turret tops. My understanding is that this was ordered to be done on Bismarck to help freindly aircraft ID the ship but its not known if it was done before she went down.

''I am a Norfolk man, and i glory in being so''

 

On the bench: Amusing Hobby 1/35th Lowe

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Friday, May 04, 2018 2:55 PM

I see that little guy hiding in there LOL. Nice job Jack! Once you point the DD out you can see it clearly!

Looking for my next build with the Z38 I read that it, and others, accompanied the Admiral Sheer while they shelled Peyse and Gross-Heydekrug on the south coast of Samland on 16 - 20 Feb 45. If I don't build it before that, I know what I'm doing for the 45 build. That would be a good one for ice I should think. The Z38 didn't have a very lucky career though. It was at the Battle of North Cape and watched the Scharnhorst sink.

Steve

Steve

ON THE BENCH

1/35 Hobby Boss Fieseler Storch
1/72 Hasegawa Nell
1/48 Tamiya Swordfish
1/350 Tamiya Prince of Wales

In Que

1/700 Tamiya King George V

 

  • Member since
    April, 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Friday, May 04, 2018 3:49 PM

Yes the yellow turret tops on that book cover, I'm thinking they just included that illustration to add a splash of colour to generate interest.  The Scharnhorst did utilize yellow back in 1940 during the invasion of Norway.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    April, 2005
  • From: Australia
Posted by taxtp on Friday, May 04, 2018 6:07 PM

This is really interesting. I'm enjoying every minute.

Cheers

Tony

I'm just taking it one GB at a time.

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Friday, May 04, 2018 10:01 PM

Thanks Tony, so am I,

I installed the sub assemblies, most of them, but still have quite a bit to do. I need to paint the small boats and launch decks, add more rigging and the railing to the deck along with the fiddly bits you see laying there. then add some weathering.

Steve

ON THE BENCH

1/35 Hobby Boss Fieseler Storch
1/72 Hasegawa Nell
1/48 Tamiya Swordfish
1/350 Tamiya Prince of Wales

In Que

1/700 Tamiya King George V

 

  • Member since
    September, 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Saturday, May 05, 2018 10:30 AM

Very interesting discussion on colors; thanks for bringing up the topic.

More excellent work, Steve!  Looking very good.

Nulla Rosa Sine Spina

 

 

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Saturday, May 05, 2018 1:34 PM

Thank you Check,

I believe I'm going to forgo the DD. I want to be able to show this at some upcoming shows starting the first part of June and I don't believe I'll have the time to finish both along with a seascape. I will start on the seascape as soon as I get the rest of the rigging on and before I the deck railing.

I ordered some flags, pennants and markings for the Arado from Europe and I hope the arrive in time. I bought the kit off eBay a few years back and didn't realize they were missing until recently.

Steve

ON THE BENCH

1/35 Hobby Boss Fieseler Storch
1/72 Hasegawa Nell
1/48 Tamiya Swordfish
1/350 Tamiya Prince of Wales

In Que

1/700 Tamiya King George V

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Sunday, May 06, 2018 7:15 PM

I'm putting the Scharnhorst on hold for around 10 days because I ordered a cell phone tripod adapter. I want to start on the water base and promised I would put the process on YouTube. This will be a simple seascape, very few waves as the ship is in a bay and just getting underway. It will show some disturbance at the stern with a small wake starting at the bow. I will make a few more videos later with different seascapes, one being Ice.

Steve

ON THE BENCH

1/35 Hobby Boss Fieseler Storch
1/72 Hasegawa Nell
1/48 Tamiya Swordfish
1/350 Tamiya Prince of Wales

In Que

1/700 Tamiya King George V

 

  • Member since
    September, 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Sunday, May 06, 2018 8:32 PM

Sounds like an interesting project, Steve.  Let us know when it goes up on YouTube.

Nulla Rosa Sine Spina

 

 

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Meridian, ID
Posted by modelcrazy on Thursday, May 10, 2018 5:58 PM

I received the cell phone mount.

That didn't take as long as I thought so now I can properly mount my phone to the tripod, so I'm back on the project.

Here are some shots of the upcomming video.

The first step was to cut a hole in the Styrofoam and start applying the paper with acrylic gel.

I'll let that dry and move onto step 2.

Steve

ON THE BENCH

1/35 Hobby Boss Fieseler Storch
1/72 Hasegawa Nell
1/48 Tamiya Swordfish
1/350 Tamiya Prince of Wales

In Que

1/700 Tamiya King George V

 

  • Member since
    September, 2003
  • From: AandF in the Badger State
Posted by checkmateking02 on Thursday, May 10, 2018 7:14 PM

Looks to be good.

Nulla Rosa Sine Spina

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, May 11, 2018 1:52 AM

Looking forward to seeing how you do this Steve, i hope you will post a link to the vid once its done.

''I am a Norfolk man, and i glory in being so''

 

On the bench: Amusing Hobby 1/35th Lowe

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