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British Army Group Build 2020

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  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: AZ,USA
Posted by GreySnake on Friday, August 28, 2020 9:26 PM
Very nice work on the Challenger Brandon!

 
  • Member since
    July 2020
Posted by EricB on Saturday, August 29, 2020 1:36 AM

 

Thought Finescale cut me off - but I guess not. There was more login trouble. Hopefully I'll get this build done.

 

Since I last posted I've moved operations from Minneapolis - the scene of the new French Revolution - to the San Francisco Bay Area which is the scene of utter insanity. But because everyone is supposed to stay inside, it doesn't matter as much as it might.

 

Anyway, the Valentine is more or less assembled and primed. The link and length tracks were a little tricky - and were hardly needed because the British version has skirts which hide all of the sag. Beyond that, it's simply a terrific kit.

 

After priming in black I put on an irregular "mottle" coat - part of it is thinned buff, some is a very light yellow oxide. This is a little bit like "black and white" weathering but I think it works better.

 

 Mottle by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 

Next we'll apply a home made rendition of British "Light Sand." I used a sample from the very good AK Real Colors and think I have a good match. When that's down and the few decals put on, we move on to filters, oil rendering and a lot of pigments. Not sure if I'll have time to make a simple display sand.

 

Eric

 

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Saturday, August 29, 2020 4:22 AM

Thats looking good Eric, can't wait to see the paint go on.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Saturday, August 29, 2020 7:41 AM

Eric: That looks good! Curious how things go with the mottling, please keep us posted! 

And please stay safe and keep your head down. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Saturday, August 29, 2020 10:19 AM

Yes, same here - look forward to see how the main coat looks over that 'marbling'.

Don't put too much trust on AK Real Colors British paints.   Researcher Mike Starmer who was consulted for the British colours,  was not pleased with their final product:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/viewtopic.php?p=1398795#p1398795

Note too that AK  has released a 2nd edition of their Real Colors vehicle book, and have more closely followed Starmer's guidence, and he is much more satisfied with this second effort on the British section.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Boise ID area
Posted by modelcrazy on Monday, August 31, 2020 9:48 AM

I finished the primer, painting and gloss coating phase, now on the tedious decal placement. thanks for the links Bish, I'll see which one I want to do since I'm not intrestsed in Harry's mount, no disrespect to the crown.Wink

The green turuned out lighter that I intended so I hope to off set that and darken it with washes. I was thinking, fading in the desert sun, but I'm not sure they faded that much. The washes should work.

And of course, broke of more stupid parts like the landing gear step thingy and the tail boom and underside antenna

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, August 31, 2020 9:54 AM

Loking good Steve. No, they didn't fade in the sun, not sure if its the liughting or what, but the first image looks about right. Our Apaches are painted the same helo Drab as US ones.

I wasn't interested in doing Harrys ship either.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Boise ID area
Posted by modelcrazy on Monday, August 31, 2020 11:13 AM

Yeah, looking at Googled images they're almost balck. If the washes don't work I'll need to respray. Not a problem though. I have a couple of decals on but I can go around those.

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: AZ,USA
Posted by GreySnake on Tuesday, September 1, 2020 11:22 AM
Eric, the Valentine is looking good. The irregular mottle coat is very interesting and something I’m going to have to try.
Modelcrazy, nice work, I know how frustrating it is when pieces start getting knocked off.
 
With my build for Gamera’s Japanese GB finished I’ve finally turned my attention over to Sherman. I’ve gotten the front and rear mud guards finished and they are just waiting for one more coat of primer before painting. Now onto building the sunshield racks which hasn’t been much trouble at all. One is already finished and the second one halfway done.
 
After the second sunshield is done I’ll give the mudguards and sand shields a spray of primer and then paint the insides and glue them to the tank. My progress should speed up now with the majority of the PE out of the way.

 
  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Boise ID area
Posted by modelcrazy on Tuesday, September 1, 2020 11:49 AM

Thanks GS

Bish, I repainted the Apache with a darker Black Green, over the prviously intaslled decals, but now it seems too greenish and not enough drabish. Tonight I'll add some OD and see if that helps.

On the down side, I'll need to get another kit for the decals and some of the parts that have broken beyond repair.

I'm starting to believe these kits are cursed.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, September 1, 2020 2:19 PM

Interesting feature GS, i have not heard of sun shields on an AFV. I take it the go over the top of the vehicle.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, September 1, 2020 2:20 PM

Steve, thats actually not looking to bad. And i think you might be right about the curse. I can send you my second kit if you want, its complete minus the canopy.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Boise ID area
Posted by modelcrazy on Tuesday, September 1, 2020 2:27 PM

That would be great Mate! Just let me know the cost of shipping.

I"ll PM you.

  • Member since
    July 2020
Posted by EricB on Wednesday, September 2, 2020 6:44 AM

Here's the base coat put over the "mottle" on the Valentine. I made what I thought was an almost perfect BSC "Light Stone" based on Ak Real Color. However, when put over a "black based" kit, the color turned a bit olive. (Want to make a fast olive drab? Mix black and yellow.)Here's how it looked"

 P1020439 by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

The green hue (which is consistent other paint companies version of Light Stone) was modified with a good dose of yellow ochre and umber filters. The change was actually quite noticeable. Coming up are oils, pigments and completion.

 P1020440 by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

Eric

 

 

However I did put on filters

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, September 2, 2020 7:51 AM

Steve: Good luck! I like what you had before... I really wish modeling had an 'undo' button. I've more than a few times wish I could have went back and left things the way they were. 

Greysnake: Good luck there too, those look really breakable... 

Eric: Hmmmm, I like that. Good going, looking forward to more. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Wednesday, September 2, 2020 8:23 AM

For Light Stone No.61 I'd go with Mike Starmer's research.  Not sure if my post was missed, or am just being ignored, but here is his comment again about AK's version:

"Slightly too dark, should be brighter and needs more yellow."

His suggested mix if you have Tamiya brand:

7 pts XF2 + 2 pts XF59 + 2 pts XF3

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/missinglynx/viewtopic.php?p=986222#p986222

 

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, September 2, 2020 2:18 PM

I think it jst got lost in all the posts of the last few days Jack. Its good to see someone doing some research into British armour colours. I had a hell of a time trying to pin down the right green for modrn stuff, there just isn't anything close to the research thats gone into WW2 German colours.

Interesting what david Nickels said in your first link, about these colours being for the artistic moderler rather than the realistic. Unfortunatly these companies have pushed their stuff and ideas so well, the 2 styles have become confused and almost blended together.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Wednesday, September 2, 2020 7:32 PM

Bish, you are probably right.

The observation was made that the black basing adversly changed the main colour, so some consideration might be in order to go with something more friendly like a brown. Maybe even a dark purple for the artist inclined, as that is the complimentary colour of yellow.

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, September 4, 2020 8:41 AM

I used the paint formula you posted Jack on the Comet and I've very pleased with the results. 

Still tinkering with the figures. They're about 95% there but I still think they need a little something more... 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Friday, September 4, 2020 8:58 AM

Hi Cliff, glad you were able to make use Starmer's formula. 

He has a set of publications that include drawings of camouflage schemes, and what appears to be actual paint chips pasted onto the pages.  He sells direct through his email, which can be found at the top of this link:

https://matadormodels.co.uk/tank_museum/xcamo_starmer.htm

 

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Friday, September 4, 2020 1:07 PM

I used to use Matador models quite a bit but have never seen that. Thanks jack.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Friday, September 4, 2020 3:14 PM

Hello Bish, no problem posting the Matador link. Beer

 

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, September 4, 2020 3:26 PM

Yeah, thanks for the link Jack. 

That manual on camo in NW Europe looks interesting. I may have to spring for it. And I keep promising to do something in the Caunter scheme but never work up the nerve for it. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July 2020
Posted by EricB on Tuesday, September 8, 2020 1:18 AM

Progress on the Valentine.

I am not going to obsess about the exact hue of Light Stone. Four companies (AK, Vallejo Model Air, MRP and LifeColor) and none are the same. For a 1941-42 desert tank, I don't think precision is worth a candle. In one article I read about desert camo, the author pointed out that fading was fast and substantial. Add dust and mud to the mix and I'd guess you could get along nicely with any sandy yellow.

 

So I've done some alterations. The final pic shows the Valentine with yellow ocher and umber filters - definitely tones down the green. The filters went on a matte. I then gave it a gloss (Vallejo acrylic) varnish for a full pin wash of the every panel line and detail. I use Gamblin Fast Matte oils and the excellent Gamsol - the most benign thinning agent for oil paints available. This was not applied across all the surfaces - but selectively. That said, sometimes there was too much paint applied and it was removed with a clean brush dampened with Gamsol. I don't try to get everything off - I'm quite content to leave a little on because it will help give the tanks the soiled look that is essential, in my opinion, for any AFV in combat use.

 

 oilwash by Eric Bergerud, on Flickr

 

Next up will be fading with oils and some serious pigment application. I think I might get a small desert base built too. We'll see.

 

Eric

 

 

 

  • Member since
    April 2006
  • From: ON, Canada
Posted by jgeratic on Tuesday, September 8, 2020 7:49 AM

it's all good Eric - your model, your call.

 

On the upside, you got a pretty food working formula for zinc chromate yellow:

 

regards,

Jack

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, September 8, 2020 10:27 AM

Eric: I dunno if it's accurate or not but I love your results. Heart

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Tuesday, September 8, 2020 3:38 PM

Interesting colour Eric, be nice to see how that comes out with oils and pigments.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”

  • Member since
    July 2014
  • From: Boise ID area
Posted by modelcrazy on Thursday, September 10, 2020 2:41 PM

I repainted the Apache last night. How's this color? I used about 50/50 black and OD.

I use a single floresent light so the color is not completly represented here but prety close.

  • Member since
    December 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, September 10, 2020 2:57 PM

That looks good to me Steve.

“Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?”

  • Member since
    November 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, September 11, 2020 8:19 AM

I like it Steve! I'm certainly no expert but she looks like the AH-64s I've seen in photos. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

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