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Model Shipways "Sultana" Group Build 2006

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  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Model Shipways "Sultana" Group Build 2006
Posted by Donnie on Thursday, May 11, 2006 11:22 PM
I was wondering if anyone here would be interested in making the Model Shipways "Sultana" a Group Build.

  • The reason is several. It gives a change for a while to wooden project.
  • The kit is very easy- as it is a Solid Hull (the hull is already preformed)
  • Most all parts are already laser cut.
  • Not much rigging - not much masting to do.
  • Paint scheme is very basic
  • Good choice for those that want to try to be introduced to wooden models.
Here is a finished project of the Sultana


It can be purchased from several stores ( I don't think that I am supposed to favor a store here on the forum)
I am not in particular favor of any store, but I do know that Nature Coast sells the Sultana and also www.modelexpo-online.com 

Perhaps I or someone can help me with this Group Build and maybe get a list of names together and mass order these thru a store and maybe they can give us a Group Discount (but then maybe not)
Maybe the best approach is for everyone to get the model on their own and set a start date.

I personally do not know other than I have seen what others are doing on the Group Builds. It seems that most just order the kit on their own and not worry about getting a mass order together. This can be quite time consuming. If it turns out to be alot of people wanting to do this, then I can see mass order for justification. But only a handful, I think everyone can be on their own to order the Sultana on their own.

If anyone is interested - even if it is only 3 or 4 or more, then we can get organized, order the kits and set a start date. Then I guess we have to establish a link on the FSM forum of this such Sultana Group Build.

So, officially, what does everyone here think.  I think that the Sultana will be a quick build and will not take long. Is there enough interest here to do this? 

Another thing that I want to say is that I DO plan to order this Sultana on my own within hopefullly in a few weeks and if people want to join me then I would be excited to have people join me in a Group Build. If it turns out that we do generate enough interest, ofcourse I will wait until eveyone is set up before I or anyone starts to build. I would not want for me to start ahead of anyone - this defeats the purpose of group building.

Thanks for everyone reading this and hopefully something might come of this.
If you are, please mention your interest here and also you can Private Message me as well !

Donnie


In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    December 2005
  • From: San Diego
Posted by jgonzales on Friday, May 12, 2006 12:54 PM

Hello Donnie,

I'm definitely game for this. I've finishing my Revell 1/96 Constitution, and have a Bluejacket 1/96 Constitution waiting in the wings, but I'd like to get some experience with a simpler wood kit before tackling the Bluejacket. The Sultana looks like it could fit the bill :)

Jose Gonzales

Jose Gonzales San Diego, CA
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Friday, May 12, 2006 2:48 PM
This is great Jose. I think the Sultana with the finished Solid Hull is good to start with. It is so easy to get frustrated and burned out of wooden ships right off , due to some of the complexities. However, I am seeing that the Sultana is not like that at all.
Yes, I am just waiting until about end of May to order mine. I do wish that some will jump on board with this so that we can establish a time to start.

This way we can wait until everyone gets their Sultana and make sure all the parts and pieces shipped correctly with the kit so as no one will be left behind.

Lets wait and be patient for a little while and see if others are interested.

Thanks

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Friday, May 12, 2006 10:56 PM

I built one of the earlier incarnations of that kit about 35 years ago; it was the first wood ship kit I ever built.  (Well...the first one I ever finished.)  I don't think I want to tackle it again, but I think it's a great one for breaking into the hobby.  She's a handsome, sort of significant ship, and makes a fine starter project because she has a little bit of everything - but no a lot of anything.  The modeler gets to rig a few deadeyes and lanyards, rig a few ratlines, fit out a few yards, set up a few guns, etc., but there's not much repetition.  (Repetition, in my experience, is the worst enemy of novice ship modelers.  By the time they've worked on a model for several months, the stuff they did first doesn't satisfy them any more.  So they either start over or give up.) 

When I was working in a hobby shop I always suggested that newcomers start with a small ship on a large scale.  The Sultana fills the bill quite nicely.  My guess is that a typical modeler who's already got some experience in other phases of the hobby, working a typical schedule on evenings and weekends, could finish the project in a couple of months - at the most. 

Model Expo is currently posting PDF copies of its instruction manuals on its website.  (YAY!  Great idea.)  I took a look at a couple of them including the one for the Sultana.  I'm not sure that booklet contains every single bit of information one would need to build the model, but it comes close.  A copy of George Campbell's Neophyte Shipmodeler's Jackstay, which MS also sells (for a very reasonable price) would be an excellent investment.  (Most of that book, as a matter of fact, is available online:  www.all-model.com .) (That link is a correction.  I originally typed it without the hyphen.  When I checked to see if it would work, I was taken unexpectedly to a site that, while of considerable interest for other reasons, had little if anything to do with ship modeling.) 

 

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Saturday, May 13, 2006 12:13 AM
Thank you Mr. Tilley for your encouragement and (for lack of better terms) endorsing or putting your stamp of approval. I do hope that the Sultana will get some interest.

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    July 2004
  • From: Monterey Bay, CA
Posted by schoonerbumm on Saturday, May 13, 2006 12:40 AM

Excellent timing. I've been wanting to kit-bash the Sultana into the Spanish goleta Sonora from the Spanish Naval Department of San Blas (in real life, about five feet shorter than Sultana).  Geoffrey Foster, up in British Columbia, developed a reconstruction of Sonora based on Sultana and Chaleur back in the early 90s.

Juan Francisco de la Bodega y Quadra sailed the Sonora with a crew of 13 on an exploration of the Northwest coast in 1775. They sailed this little schooner from San Blas, Mexico to the lower panhandle of modern day Alaska. Anyone who has sailed the west coast will know what a feat this was in the 18th century.

My ultimate goal is to build a 1/24th scale R/C model of the Sonora.

Related links:

http://www.modelsailingships.com/

http://www.geocities.com/socalschoonerfleet/

Alan

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." Benjamin Franklin

  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: Biloxi, Mississippi
Posted by Russ39 on Saturday, May 13, 2006 12:40 AM

Donnie:

I also think this is a good starter model, especially for someone who has a bit of modeling experience and wants to get into wooden ship models. I have this kit in the closet, but I am swamped currently and for the next several months.

I wanted to mention, though, that there is a modeler named Charles Passaro who is currently "bashing" this kit. He is posting his progress at Drydock Models and the Ship Modeler's Forum Yahoo group. The best part is that he is putting together a pdf "builder's shop notes" document, discussing his work. He did this recently for the Phantom kit and it went over really well. I have proof read the first few pages of his Sultana pdf  and it is going to be a nice addition to the kit's instructions. He made several changes to the kit to get some more scale accuracy. Even if you did not want to follow all of his suggestions, Chuck is quite a craftsman and he knows how to explain things for beginner modelers. This would be a great value for your group I would think.

I do not know when he will be offering his finished document, but you can look at his progress photos on the above mentioned forums and see what I am talking about. You can also email Chuck and ask him questions. I am sure he will be more than happy to talk it over with you.

Russ

 

 

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Saturday, May 13, 2006 8:41 AM
This is great, and even though I have never kitbashed anything, I think I may stay with the instructions that come with it. I still welcome anyone and everyone plain build or kitbash to this. I know that alot of people may have a alot of projects that they are working on and thats ok too.
I wish to keep this post alive for a few weeks or more to generate more interest.
Thank you Russ and everyone that has joined in already.

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:03 AM
I also have started a post in the "Group Build" forum and its title is:
Model Shipways: "Sultana" Group Build

I mainly set up this in the Group Build Section so that we will have a place to go to when we get started. For now, this thread only deals with those that are interested in the Sultana for now. I think that we can migrate over to the Group Build forum when we start. What does everone thing. Is this a good idea. Since I am new at starting a Group Build, I am not sure if there are any ground rules or not. I think that I see some that actually have some ground rules or guidelines associated with a particular Group Build. But, that almost may be atributed to the fact of the number of people that sign on. Again I am looking for opinions as well.

So far we have:
1. jgonzales
2. schoonerbumm
3. Donnie

So far the only place to get this Model is:
1. http://www.modelexpo-online.com (do a 'search'  for Sultana on their site)
2. http://naturecoast.com/hobby/shipways.htm#SULTANA
3. http://www.historicships.com/TALLSHIPS/Shipways/Sultana/Sultana.htm

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, May 13, 2006 11:05 AM

The Sultana model is one that I have been intending for some time  to get once I had finished some of what I already have.  This makes now as good a time as any to at least get the kit so I will do that.  After I finish the build I am going to do in the PT boat group build, this would be a great next project and some of the ships I have that have been waiting for attention may have to wait a little longer.  Time permitting, I would be willing to join in.

Bruce

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Saturday, May 13, 2006 6:45 PM
Great Bruce,
we would be happy for you to join. I think we are going to have a great time with this ship with its ease of build.  I guess I need to start thinking more of timelines as we move forward. Just stay tuned.

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Saturday, May 13, 2006 6:56 PM
More info on the Sultana:
SULTANA - 1:64 SCALE - SOLID HULL

Model Shipways - Colonial Schooner - Solid Hull Kit
Built by Benjamin Hollowell in Boston in 1767, Sultana was seaworthy far beyond her size of 51 feet. The Royal Navy bought her in 1768, and she became one of Britain's most effective weapons in the fight against smugglers.

One of our most popular kits, the Sultana features a machine carved basswood hull that requires only light shaping and sanding. Other wooden parts, including the 2-1/8" ship's boat, are laser cut for a perfect fit. Plank-scored decking, spars, wood materials and eight cast metal swivel guns are all included. For historical accuracy, original rigging is duplicated with cotton cordage and 67 wooden blocks. Detailed plans by Ben Lankford and a 24 page instruction manual help you build an authentic replica. (Display base and brass pedestals are not included.)

Entry Level
Length 17"/Height 15"/Scale 3/16" = 1 ft. (1:64)

The cost is about $89.00 of what I have been looking around and everyone can also get a paint set that is taylored for the ship if you like and I think it runs about $20 or $22.
I am in no way in charge of prices. I am afraid that everyone is on their own with this. I only posted the prices so that people will have an idea.

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Saturday, May 13, 2006 11:14 PM
I have been thinking of some guidelines to go by based on some other gb's going on and honestly, I can't think of but a few:
  • The start date June 10th. This should give ample time to purchase and receive the model. Check for missing parts or whatever - to get ready.
  • Modifications or kitbashing as they say is ok with me. (no limits I can think of)
  • This GB can be plain and simple no contest that I am aware of unless some want a contest.
  • The build could last 4 months - I think the kit is rather simple.
Please by all means if the start date is too far out or not enough time that can be modified. What I am thinking about is just relaxation and having a good time. If some want to turn this into a contest, then let it be. Like I said, my personal approach is that I want to have some folks join me on this build so that we can do this together and learn and progress thru this at a fun pace.

I noticed that Model Expo has already sold 5 of these since last week.  I am going to try my best to get my order in soon.  I am also thinking about emailing Nature Coast to see how many they have in stock as well.

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Sunday, May 14, 2006 2:16 PM
                     "The Sultana Group Build"


I am taking cthulhu77 (Greg's) advice and extending the build time. Again, I am new at organizing a Group Build. I guess I am thinking in simple terms so forgive me of my oversights !

I want to revise the 4 month build time to more time to maybe 6 months - to be honest, this can just be played by ear.

Also, cthulhu77 also suggested perhaps a judging contest and include Mr. Tilley.  This is personally fine with me. Honestly, I do not want to scare anyone away with this notion. But, according to cthulhu77, it can be fun this way as well and can generate alot of 'more' interest.

I am still open to all suggestions.

So the head count so far is:

  1. jgonzales (Jose)
  2. schoonerbumm
  3. Donnie
  4. BCS  (Bruce)
  5. cthulhu77 (Greg)
I think that some listed already have their Sultana already or have just ordered it.

Thanks for tuning and welcome to

"Tthe Sultana Group Build"

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, May 14, 2006 3:04 PM

I'm flattered that anybody would want to involve me in this project.  It's a fine idea, and I'd be delighted to help in any way I can - with one major exception.  I don't believe in model competitions, I've been opposed to them for years, and I won't judge a model contest under any circumstances.

I've sounded off before on this topic elsewhere in the Forum; those I've already put to sleep in that manner are welcome to stop reading here.  I've become convinced over the past fifty years that competitions do at least as much harm to the hobby as they do good for it.  I've entered my share of them, and made a thorough idiot of myself more than once.  I've also served as a judge quite a few times, and I won't do it again. 

My last major contact with the world of model contests involved the International Scale Ship Model Competition (I think that's what they called it) at the Mariners' Museum.  I got my job there shortly after the first contest (in 1980) and had the task of planning the one for 1985.  Not knowing what I was getting into, I started by sending out a form to all the people who'd entered the 1980 event, asking them what they thought should be changed next time.  Bad idea.  Everybody agreed there weren't enough categories; that he/she had been beaten out by models that, for one reason or another, were unfair competitors.  If I'd taken all those recommendations, some lucky entrant in the 1985 contest would have gotten a letter reading:  "Congratulations!  You've won second place in the the category for semi-scratchbuilt, full-hull, unpainted, rigged models of sailing ships longer than 100' built to scales larger than 1/16"=1' out of wood with hand tools by amateurs - outside a bottle."  Great.

I left the museum in 1983; in 1985 my former boss called me on the phone and asked if I'd serve as a judge.  I said yes, but a month before the event I got laid up in the hospital with a bladder stone.  (Fate works in mysterious, wondrous ways.)  I did, however, serve as a judge in the 1990 event.  It was a fascinating experience; the opportunity to examine so many superb models at close range was great.  But it was also frustrating.  The other two judges and I spent three days, 9-5, studying those models (there were over a hundred of them), and read the "research notebooks" that accompanied them in the hotel at night.  Three days were all we had; we were taking time off from our jobs, and the museum was footing the hotel bill.  The winners we picked were some of the finest models I've ever seen.  And as soon as we got done, the trouble started. 

Never in my life have I encountered such a collection of whiny, babyish, egotistical, thin-skinned so-called adults as in the aftermath of model competitions.  They deluged that museum with complaints that the judges were biased, the judges were incompetent, the results were rigged, etc., etc.  One guy kept writing letters for about six months, eventually announcing that was going to report the museum to the authorities.  (He gave up when he found out that there aren't any such authorities.) 

Model contests seem to bring out the worst in people (including me), and I question how much good they actually do for anybody.  I no longer enter them, judge them, or have anything to do with them. 

I get a great deal of pleasure from looking at the work of other modelers; rarely if ever do I see a model that doesn't teach me something.  And I enjoy talking to other modelers.  But I don't see why any sort of comparative evaluation has to be part of the experience.  I hear other people describe themselves as "naturally competitive"; I guess I'm not.  I figure that a medal or ribbon in a contest merely means that those particular judges thought that particular model was better than the others that showed up on that particular day.  If my model wins such an award, I know it did so because Donald McNarry, Harold Hahn, and various other folks didn't show up.  So how much does it mean?  I don't feel like I have anything to prove to anybody, and I don't need somebody to tell me my model isn't as good as some other model.  I'm perfectly capable of figuring that out for myself.

I am, however, a big believer in model exhibitions.  The model club of which I'm currently a member (the Carolina Maritime Modeler's Society - meetings at the NC Maritime Museum in Beaufort, 2:00 on the fourth Saturday of every month, September through May, new members and visitors always welcome) has been going strong for more than ten years now, without ever holding a contest.  I have, in fact, never heard a negative or discourteous word from anybody in the club.  Every May, in conjunction with the Museum's annual Wooden Boat Show, we hold an exhibition in which all the members bring in their models and show them off to the public.  The subjects range from Chesapeake Bay skipjacks to freighters to RC tugboats to aircraft carriers.  Before the exhibition starts, we set up a photographic backdrop and lights, and I take pictures of the models; I make the pictures into prints and CDs, and hand them out the following month to anybody who's interested.  The guys in the small craft shop prepare miniature fishing boat kits out of scrap wood, and we set up a booth where kids ae invited to buy the little models and build them under our supervision.  (Price:  $3.00.  Average construction time:  15 minutes.  Typical reaction to the experience:  sheer ecstasy.)  Everybody has a great time, everybody learns something, and nobody fights about anything.  That's my notion of what model building - or any other hobby - is supposed to be about.

By now I imagine Donnie and the other Sultana enthusiasts are wishing they'd never heard of me.  If you folks want to have a competition, that's entirely your business.  Apparently a lot of people get pleasure and satisfaction out of such things; maybe the fact that I don't makes me the weird one.  I do suggest, though, that you consider carefully just what the purpose of the project is.  If the objective is to learn something about ships, get some experience in wood ship modeling, and have fun, please think carefully before injecting the element of competition into the proceedings.

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    June 2005
  • From: Biloxi, Mississippi
Posted by Russ39 on Sunday, May 14, 2006 3:09 PM

Donnie:

I am leading a Community Build over at Drydock Models currently and I would like to make only one suggestion. My suggestion is to always count on something going awry with the scheduling. Murphy has a bad habit of poking his nose in where he is not wanted.

I agree that to extend the build time would be a good idea, but whatever build time you choose, perhaps build in some flexibility to your build schedule. This will allow for everyone to keep up and if you are compelled to make a change in the schedule, it would be by speeding things up if everyone tends to be on or ahead of schedule rather than slowing it down to allow a few to catch up. If you think a given step might take a week, give it two.

I would suggest the same philosophy with the start date. On paper it sounds simple enough for everyone to get their kits by the date you suggest, but count on it, there will likely be some problem with getting kits so I would suggest you push back your start date just a tad, perhaps a couple or three weeks, just to be on the safe side.

It may very well be that Murphy will take no interest in this build, but chances are he will, so please be prepared for him to pay you a visit. :)

 Good luck with this build.

Russ

 

 

 

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Sunday, May 14, 2006 6:42 PM

Yikes. didn't mean to open up any sort of "worm can" here !   I can understand JTilley's decision, but I do believe that a first place award among friends is o.k.

   How's this: we all get one vote, and the winner gets the prize? 

   As stated before, we all agree that this is going to be, and supposed to be, fun !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Sunday, May 14, 2006 7:24 PM

     "The Sultana Group Build"

 

Ok, I am rubbing my forehead now ! Sigh [sigh]

Well, may I be transparent here. First of all, I have to admit that I am not a competitive person. There is something about competitions or contest or whatever that gives me this uneasiness. Ok, but, I personally do not mind others being competitive.

If I had any preferrences, I really wish for this build to be relaxing, fun, sharing of ideas or sharing of "how do you do that" kinda thing. But at the same time, "The Sultana Group Build" is not all about me, but it is all about the collection of modelers / shipwrights getting together.

I wish that this wooden model would bring a new taste to us that have been doing the plastic versions a change of pace. I good change of pace. The thought of some venturing out to do wooden might be daughting enough.

I am only expressing how I feel. Nothing more or less. I certainly am not the kind of person that would want to offend anyone. I have gathered some new freinds here. This place is comforting to come to after a days of work and to explore ship building together.

If I may post my personal vote, I really wish for this build to remain without judge or contest. I am not in any way siding with anyone. I have a huge amount of respect for everybody here and there are some veterans here and I am not. I just wanted to jump into the fun of it and start a group build on this simple wooden ship that we all can get introduced to wooden ship models without getting into something way over our heads. ( I speak for myself)

I have a Bluenose that I started a long time ago and it is double planked - boy that wore me out. I got hung up on all the scupper holes that got me down. I don't want to see people get into the situation that I got into.

I admire everybodies taste in modeling here and I wish that we can come to the table fresh and lets get excited about the "Sultana" itself.

Now, lets say that 3 modelers get together while we are doing the build and the 3 of the modelers want to contest within themselves, I certainly do not mind as these are the individual collective choices. But as far as the motivation of the build, I wish for contesting remain to individuals. I hope that I am making sense here. It is the motivation of "The Sultana Group Build" that I wish to remain fun and simple.

Thanks for tuning and welcome to

"Tthe Sultana Group Build"

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    January 2003
  • From: arizona
Posted by cthulhu77 on Sunday, May 14, 2006 9:37 PM

  That sounds like an excellent idea !  I am really looking forward to starting on this one, and am hoping that more of the styrene crowd jumps in on this one...we have a wealth of experienced wood builders to coach us along, a great kit, and a fun group.  What more could one ask for?

     Great, great, great idea !  My Sultana is winging it's way here now, time to stock up on some sandpaper and perhaps find an excuse to upgrade my dremel...hmmm.

                          greg

http://www.ewaldbros.com
  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Sunday, May 14, 2006 9:49 PM
       "The Sultana Group Build"

I am hoping that I can scrape up enough to go ahead and buy the Sultana this coming week. But I am still sticking to the June 10th start date. I am thinking that the June 10th date should be enough time for everyone to get the model from the store of their choice.
At that point (June 10th), we can do a roll call to make sure everybody is ready. I would not want to start with out someone.

Donnie

ps
I do wish for Mr. Tilley to join as far as maybe looking over our shoulders at each of our progress and offering some advice for us. I am open to that if he wants. Also, if Mr. Tilley has any other suggestions as to "how" he wants to participate, this would be great too.

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Sunday, May 14, 2006 10:12 PM

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    May 2003
  • From: Greenville, NC
Posted by jtilley on Sunday, May 14, 2006 10:34 PM

How's this?  I'll try to keep up with the posts, if somebody raises a question that I think I can answer I'll try my best to do so, and if some idea or source of information occurs to me I'll say so - with the understanding that everybody has the option of ignoring me at any point.  I will NOT offer opinions as to which individual's model is better than another's, or evaluate any of the models according to any supposed standard.  I spend a good bit of time doing that kind of thing for a living; handing out grades is not on my agenda for leisure-time activity.  I feel no compunction whatever about leveling blasts at manufacturers and publishers, but I don't take part in internet forums in order to criticize other modelers.

Here's a starter.  If you're trying to compile all the available information on this ship, don't miss Harold Hahn's book The Colonial Schooners.  Mr. Hahn is one of the best scale ship modelers around.  You won't need the plans in his book to build the MS kit (the ones in the kit will be more than adequate), but the little plank-on-frame schooners he's built are great sources of inspiration.  And if you live within driving distance of Newport News, Virginia, be sure to visit the Mariners' Museum and spend some time communing with Mr. Hahn's famous "Colonial Shipyard Diorama."  It's one of the most remarkable pieces of model building I've encountered.  (On second thought - before making a trip to Virginia to see that diorama, we'd better let our fellow Forum participant Ron Mariner confirm that it's still on exhibition.  Given the way that institution operates nowadays, I wouldn't be surprised if they'd stuck it in the basement.)

Youth, talent, hard work, and enthusiasm are no match for old age and treachery.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Monday, May 15, 2006 7:53 PM
"The Sultana Group Build"

I decided that I should go ahead and order the Sultana from Model Expo.
At the www.modelexpo-online.com site, I have been watching the "in-stock" quantity dwindle down to the point that I felt uncomfortable waiting. It seems that this kit is very popular for some reason. I also got the paint set for it.

The quantity available after my order is 9 from Model Expo.

I am still holding to the June 10th roll call and start date.

I apprecitate those that are interested in this kit to join in.

Donnie
ps I am not endorsing Model Expo - I have ordered from them before and felt comfortable with their business.

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Monday, May 15, 2006 9:50 PM
I received an email from Nature Coast late this evening and quoting them"

"We have 3 in stock and can get 10 more right away if you need them."


Their email address is:
naturecoasthobbyshop@naturecoast.com



Donnie
So between Model Expo, Nature Coast and some prefer eBay, I am sure that there are enough for everyone!

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 9:15 AM

Updated list of participants:

  1. jgonzales (Jose)
  2. schoonerbumm
  3. Donnie
  4. BCS  (Bruce)
  5. cthulhu77 (Greg)
  6. radguylvn (Rad)

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: 37deg 40.13' N 95deg 29.10'W
Posted by scottrc on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 12:36 PM
Hi Donnie,
I would like to try this newer kit, but have other commitments until the end of August before I can start it.  However, I should have no problem completing it by December.

Now to just convince my wife to purchase it, after spending $5000 on materials for a new addition to the house.

But, this new addition doesn't yet have a ship to put in it, so I might be able to add the cost of my model into my new addition budget.

Cheers,
Scott

  • Member since
    February 2006
Posted by Grymm on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 1:09 PM

Hmmm.  I've never tried a wood kit before.  I'll have to check my hobby funds and talk with the wife.  I'm deep into the Cutty Sark and beginning deck work on the Soleil Royal looms over me.  I'm not sure I would start June 10th, but I could do it inside the 6 month window that's being discussed.  I also start summer classes June 5th, so my time will become a bit limited.  I'll see what I can do.  It sounds like an interesting project. 

Donnie, you're not on my wife's good side.

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Wednesday, May 17, 2006 2:53 PM
 Grymm wrote:
Donnie, you're not on my wife's good side.


Tell her that the smell of (wood)en ships is very romantic ! Wink [;)]

Donnie

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
  • From: Madison, Mississippi
Posted by Donnie on Thursday, May 18, 2006 5:05 PM
Ok,
so this is going to be very obvious to some and to others it may not be so appearent. There might be some here that have never tackled a wooden ship model before. I can only say that I have had a "taste" of it, but no completions.

Wooden Ships will go together will a different type of personality if you will. There are alot of differences that go beyond the scope of this posting that I am making now. Depending on the complexity of the wooden ship depends on how much "building" is done not "putting together".
This is why  I choose the Sultana is that is has a combination of "putting together" and "building".
And for heavens sake I certainly hope that I do not come across any certain way by decribing "putting together" and "building" as both applies to making a model. I am sure however, that some will contest my writting and my attempt to help. SInce Mr. Tilley works on both Plastic and Wood, I hope that he understands what I am talking about the difference and maybe he can contribute as to the diff of "putting together" and "building". My time is limited right now, so I am in a bind to be less wordy about it at the moment.

Now, 
The discussion at this moment for this build is about
Adhesives
I done some research about what kind of glue to use with wooden ships. Like I said, bear with me. I have found that if you use Cynacrylate or CA (super glue) then that is ok, but one thing that some needs to think about is this: If you plan to finish your Sultana with like a natural stain or whatever (instead of painting colors), you might find that the CA glues will not allow your stain to get thru, but will 'block' that stain.  If you want to stain naturally your ship, you might want to consider using some products like Titebond orginal, regular Carpenters Glue and or a product called Weldbond. These later glues allow for stains to be applied and they are also 'sandable' whereas the CA glues will dry on the surface hard and maybe crusty depending on your experise of applications.
I am going to go with a variety of CA and some locally bought Titebond from Lowes. I think the Titebond will dry fast enough for what I want to do.
My ambition here is not to get carried away with Adhesives, but just to put some thoughts out there for this project coming up.
I am not going to go with a stain per say, but I think the mast might have a stain look to it. I will use the Titebond or something simular with that as it will not hinder the looks of the mast or yards. But on parts that will be hidden, then the CA will do fine. There are also some applicator tips that you can use to make sure that too much CA is not being used.
I tend to be a little allergic for some reason of the CA. I found that ZAP makes a non-odor variety or non-allergic. It does cost more, but it actually works (no allergic reaction  no odors)

In Progress: OcCre's Santisima Trindad Finished Builds: Linbergs "Jolly Roger" aka La Flore Mantua's Cannone Da Costa Americano linberg's "Cptn Kidd" aka Wappen Von Hamburg Model Shipways 1767 Sultana Midwest Boothbay Lobsterboat (R/C)

  • Member since
    November 2005
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, May 18, 2006 7:42 PM

I have had the pleasure of exchanging emails with Chuck Passaro who has written a detailed guide to building the Phantom, another solid hull Model Shipways kit that I understand will be used as the official instructions for the kit.  He is in the process of doing a similar guide for the Sultana and has said that he would be willing to offer the chapters to the group as they are converted to pdf if people think it would be of use to them.  Having seen the material done for the Phantom, I have no doubt that it will be extremely useful,in particular for those of us who have not built a solid hull kit before.  If there is any interest in this, let me know.

Bruce

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