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Takom's King Tigers

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  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Takom's King Tigers
Posted by goldhammer on Monday, July 10, 2017 2:20 PM

Noticed in Squadrons July flyer that they list two kit #'s for the Henschel version, both with interior and Zimmerit.....TAK2045 & TAK2047.  Was wondering if anyone knows what the difference in kits is, and if anyone has done them.Also if there is a preference between the Henschel and Porsche turrent versions.

Having never been on the "dark side", might be a dumb question, but had to ask.

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, July 10, 2017 4:04 PM

From what i can tell, the only differance is that 2047 has the markings for s.Pz.Abt 505 with the charging night insignia on the side of the turret. I think the only change in parts is the turret with has a small square without Zimm where the markings go.

The Porsche turreted tanks were the first produced, about 80 vehciles if i remember right. They were just useing turrets which had already been built for a tank which never was. The main visible differance is the rounded front, which caused a problem in that it could deflect rounds down into the top of the hull.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

On the bench: Dragon 1/35th Pz II Ausf F

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, July 10, 2017 8:29 PM

Frankly though I haven't bought any of Takom's Tiger kits the other kits I've picked up from them are really, really fantastic kits. I'd expect those should be great models.

As Bish said the Porsche turrets only equiped the first 80 or so tanks and the Henschel was the 'normal' turret. Still the Germans built less than 500 of the tanks total so it wasn't that much longer a production run.

BTW: Squadron did run an inventory blow-out sale and a July Fourth sale where they I think they were discounted even more- I'm thinking they dropped them to about half price. They might do this again since they seem to be trying to move the kits in case you still can't make up your mind.

"Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that dragons can be killed." -G.K. Chesterton

 

  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Tuesday, July 11, 2017 1:08 PM

Thanks guys, yeah they are running at $66 now in the flyer, with the Porsche/interior, no zimm at about $53.  Normally at around $82.

 

Putting in an order for other stuff in a week or so, might just have to get one and try the dark side.  Already figuring the tracks will drive me insane, or more so than I already am.  Going to pick up the heavy mine clearer the Krupp built, also a Takom kit.

  • Member since
    November, 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Saturday, July 15, 2017 5:04 AM

I have one of these kits and I do have issues with it.

now some of these issues are probably my fault as I have belatedly found that the lower tub is warped ever so slightly which has caused some of the deck parts that fit around the turret basket base not to fit where they should.

I would have thought that putting in the firewall would have fixed that, but aparrently hasn't.

I have issues as well with the fact that they have not done separate ammunition and racks, but moulded ammunition onto part of the racks which makes painting much harder.

there are accuracy issues too, but being fair, they are nice kits and certainly with forewarning, attention and a little work will build up to be nice lookers.

now. Only the first 50 Tiger II produced has the initial (Porsche) turret and all had zimmeritt applied. So the kit without the zimmeritt could be inaccurate, but that doesn't mean that a crew in the field removed it themselves as the stuff was universally hated and blamed for fires that caused crews to abandon their vehicles that otherwise were perfectly functional.

I have Meng's Tiger II kit(s) with all 3 boxes and although I haven't started it yet it has much more and better accuracy With a load of gurtsacks and separate ammo and racks. It is obvious that Meng drafted in the KT guys to get it right.

 

I would recommend Friuls KT tracks for the Takom kits.

 

James

  • Member since
    August, 2014
  • From: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posted by goldhammer on Saturday, July 15, 2017 8:11 PM

Thanks for the info guys.

G- of course the one I was leaning toward isn't included in that sale.

Snap- appreciate the heads up on what to look out for.

Might hold off for awhile on one....got to build courage to venture to the dark side.

  • Member since
    November, 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Sunday, July 16, 2017 4:20 AM

The dark side isn't as dark as you think!

If it is the first dive in then maybe a full interior kit may not quite be the thing to introduce yourself to a fun, but dark path to some fabulous and entertaining builds.... Let's face it, this is our hobby and it should be fun and both an entertaining and learning experience.

So, rather than Takom's Tiger II interior kit, for which there are about 4 of them, and not cheap for your first build on your path down the dark side I would recommend something from Amusing Hobby's range.

they are really nice kits, easy to put together and well designed and engineered and look good when finished. An excellent and less expensive introduction, and you are less likely to get bogged down.

Amusing hobby are relative newcomers on the block but they have some interesting kits out and more on the way. They are a small company and not a prolific producer but I do like building their kits because the finished result is always good and they are always interested in seeing finished builds.

Meng and Trumpeter have some stunning kits in their lists with prices to match and they are all well designed and good builds. Meng has a few kits with full internals and after their first one have gone down the road where the kit has been divided into two or even three boxes where you can build the model without the interior or by adding the second separate internal set and with their KT a third box having working tracks and suspension Which can be put on the external only build, or the tracks on the full wack!

the choice is yours, but my advice is to keep it simple!

 

James

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Sunday, July 16, 2017 4:50 PM

snapdragonxxx

I have one of these kits and I do have issues with it.

now some of these issues are probably my fault as I have belatedly found that the lower tub is warped ever so slightly which has caused some of the deck parts that fit around the turret basket base not to fit where they should.

I would have thought that putting in the firewall would have fixed that, but aparrently hasn't.

I have issues as well with the fact that they have not done separate ammunition and racks, but moulded ammunition onto part of the racks which makes painting much harder.

there are accuracy issues too, but being fair, they are nice kits and certainly with forewarning, attention and a little work will build up to be nice lookers.

now. Only the first 50 Tiger II produced has the initial (Porsche) turret and all had zimmeritt applied. So the kit without the zimmeritt could be inaccurate, but that doesn't mean that a crew in the field removed it themselves as the stuff was universally hated and blamed for fires that caused crews to abandon their vehicles that otherwise were perfectly functional.

I have Meng's Tiger II kit(s) with all 3 boxes and although I haven't started it yet it has much more and better accuracy With a load of gurtsacks and separate ammo and racks. It is obvious that Meng drafted in the KT guys to get it right.

 

I would recommend Friuls KT tracks for the Takom kits.

 

James

 

Sorry, yes, 50, i was thinking of the ferdinand, i stand corrected.

My guess is that the Zimmless Porsche vehicle is for those who prefer to add there own Zimm and i like that idea rather than have pre zimmed kits forced on us.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

On the bench: Dragon 1/35th Pz II Ausf F

  • Member since
    November, 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Monday, July 17, 2017 5:29 AM

I don't mind having a decent moulded on zimmeritt kit as well as a non-zimmeritt kit of the same subject as it gives me a good choice and both Meng's and Takom's zimmeritt King Tigers are really nice examples of zimmeritt. My only problem is putting on the decals!

It saves me lots of time and extra expense in filler and creating the pattern.

Also, with zimmeritt only being applied for a few months and production times for the KT being quite long then it is debateable just how many KT's had it applied overall.

certainly crews hated the stuff and blamed it for setting on fire after a hit that hadn't caused any damage causing crews to abandon otherwise serviceable vehicles.

it would be a very interesting and informative experiment to re-create the zimmeritt, section of armour and paint to original specs and see if a few hits can start a fire.

I theorise, not knowing the composition of the zimmeritt and the paint, that a chemical reaction could have taken place making them flammable and then vulnerable to a strike that caused heat, friction and sparks thus setting the paint and zimmeritt on fire causing the crew to abandon an otherwise serviceable vehicle.

It also makes you wonder just how many crews removed the zimmeritt in the field and repainted their vehicles during maintainance.

Zimmeritt wouldn't have been stopped unless the complaints from the crews using the vehicles with it applied had a very solid grounding and certainly, without going through loss records, it seems that a considerable number of vehicles being lost to fires was enough of a concern by OKW to cancel the zimmeritt.

I do know that If I was a KT commander and I saw a zimmeritt equipped vehicle go up in smoke after a ricochet then at the first opportunity the stuff would be off!

 

James

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, July 17, 2017 5:47 AM

Personally like doing my own zimm as adding tools clamps and such onto the zimm rather then embedded in it just doesn't look right. Although some of the Zimmed Dragon kits i have done do come up very nice.

Amongst other things the Zimm included sawdust. But i am not so sure the troops concern was the only reason it was stopped. I believe a major factor was the time it took to apply the zimm when Germany needed everything it could get and needed it now. I seem to recall it added at least a couple of days to production. But they did do tests on the Zimm which proved the rumours false, but they never restarted its use.

Another factor was that the allies didn't come up with the type of magnetic anti armour weapons that the Germans had developed and expected the allies would as well, so it was not needed.

This is the composition of Zimm.

40% barium sulphate (BaSO4)
Made from barium treated with sulpheric acid H2SO4, and is water insoluble.
25% polyvinyl acetate (PVA)
White carpenter's glue.
15% ochre pigment
Earth-tone color.
10% zinc sulphide (ZnS)
A naturally occuring zinc ore. 70% zinc sulphide and 30% barium sulphate gives lithopone, a white pigment.
10% sawdust

Soldiers can be supersticious. German paratroopers would only use white canopies, despite them standing out more, becaus ethey thgought coloured ones were more likely to tangle.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

On the bench: Dragon 1/35th Pz II Ausf F

  • Member since
    November, 2004
Posted by snapdragonxxx on Monday, July 17, 2017 9:02 AM

It would cut a couple of days off production time which is a good thing as Tigers and Pathers were a force multiplier where morale is concerned.

German soldiers would be more prepared to stand their ground when supported with the Panthers, Tigers and TD variants and the Allies certainly more cautious when this type of armour was reported with much more air support from Typhoons etc being around that area of combat.

we do know that sawdust is flammable and that the period paint would be flammable too, but the mixture does seem improbable to set on fire from a hit or ricochet.

Yes... Soldiers are a very superstitious bunch. I know being a retired veteran that morale can be affected by complaints going up and not being listened to, so while the zimmeritt was stopped for production time saving reasons, the boys at the front would have thought that the complaints had been listened to and the desks in Berlin were looking out for their welfare which would have made the guys in the steel beasts much more happier.

I haven't done a Dragon kit in years, mainly because their instruction layout drives me crazy and they have - or had - a nasty habit of leaving missing parts that suddenly show themselves up and you spend ages going backwards trying to work omit what you missed and when!

I like my Meng, Amusing Hobby and Trumpeter kits for armour and am looking at some other brands to tackle this winter. My aircraft are Trumpeter, zoukei-Mura and Tamiya plus Hong Kong Models, for which, their latest two-stage Mossie has just thumped onto my doormat and I reckon will be a good build.

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Monday, July 17, 2017 9:25 AM

I must admit i have rather enjoyed Dragon kits the last few years. There newer panther kits are just really nice to build and they have really improved there instructions. I have only done one Trump kit so far and while i like their engineering and the detail can be very nice, i find from what i have done and what i have heard of other kits, they are lazy when it comes to some of the finer points. Some parts of the E-100 jag reminded me of old Italeri kits.

But lately when their has been a choice of who's kit to get for a certain subject, i have found myself going for Tristar/Hobby Boss.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

On the bench: Dragon 1/35th Pz II Ausf F

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