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"Black Magic"

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  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: SF
"Black Magic"
Posted by gobears01 on Saturday, September 16, 2017 12:02 AM

Well I'm still a sucker for Revell and Monogram toy models. I just read Revell is reissuing the M4 Sherman 'Black Magic' from the 50's. Even though I've just built several Tamiya, Dragon and Italeri M4's with four on the shelf. I guess I'll have to buy one more.

I've looked for an original on ebay for years, and now they reissue it. They don't mention it's a reissue though. It's obvious by the box art, it's the original.

Anybody else remember??

 

Offagain-Onagain

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, September 16, 2017 1:06 AM

Oh yes, I built that kit decades ago... it might almost be fun to dress it up a bit... 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Saturday, September 16, 2017 1:32 AM

Yes, I built one when it was reissued in the early 1980s (1983?). Box art was a built kit on a pile of dirt. Bought another builder's kit on eBay many years ago to recapture my younger days and attempt to update the kit to more modern standards (sort of like a "what can I do with this now" moment).

Yeah, nope, not worth the effort. Just too crude of a kit. Other notion was to build it straight OOB and then try to replicate the exact hybrid composite Sherman but use updated Dragon pieces parts.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, September 16, 2017 9:51 AM

I haven't checked Scalemates- is it a different mold than the old Monogram M4s?

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Saturday, September 16, 2017 10:56 AM

GMorrison

I haven't checked Scalemates- is it a different mold than the old Monogram M4s?

 

Yes, it pre-dates the Monogram M4 hedgehog and M4A1 Screaming Mimi by a couple of decades. Those two kits were better models and had the early VVSS suspension. They were also 1/32 scale.

Other than being a Sherman, they are not the same kits.

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Rifle, CO. USA
Posted by M1GarandFan on Saturday, September 16, 2017 11:58 AM

Boy, you guys are really taking me back now! I had thought about this kit many times while building my recent Shermans, but didn't remember that was its name 'til this series of posts. That was the first tank kit I ever built and it seems as if it was the late '50's or early '60's. As I remember it was basically an M4A3E8, but with a 75mm gun and turret. Thanks for the trip through memory lane!

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Saturday, September 16, 2017 12:07 PM

I'd never heard of it.

 

"It's Motorized!"

 

"Scaled from OFFICIAL U.S. Army Prints"!

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • From: Lacey, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Saturday, September 16, 2017 12:21 PM

This sounds like my kind of kit. I'll be keeping an eye out for it for sure.

I could use a 1/35 Sherman in my collection ;)

- Mike Brindos

Figure Painting Moderator -- Genessis-Models

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Saturday, September 16, 2017 2:22 PM

M1GarandFan

Boy, you guys are really taking me back now! I had thought about this kit many times while building my recent Shermans, but didn't remember that was its name 'til this series of posts. That was the first tank kit I ever built and it seems as if it was the late '50's or early '60's. As I remember it was basically an M4A3E8, but with a 75mm gun and turret. Thanks for the trip through memory lane!

 

Not quite, it had the small hatch cast front of an M4A1 and the welded rear of an M4, might have been trying to make an M4 composite hull. Then it had late HVSS tracks. The turret was early style low bustle.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, September 16, 2017 4:09 PM

Actually it is an M4A1 late hull with HVSS suspension and the late low bustle 75mm turret. A rather uncommon version... 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Rifle, CO. USA
Posted by M1GarandFan on Saturday, September 16, 2017 5:46 PM

Rob & Stik,

You two remember more about it than I sure do. No idea if it was a small or large hatch version, but I do remember the cast hull (now that you've reminded me). Anyway, it was really cool at the time; until I started looking at pics of Sherman's and couldn't find any that matched the model! I've learned so much more about it all from the forum here. I figure you can almost  (that's ALMOST) build any combination of hulls, turrets and suspension and there's a chance that at least one actually existed. Keep up the good work everyone. It's a great learning experience. Over and out.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, September 16, 2017 6:04 PM

Actually it looks like it may have been an attempt at a composite hull M4... but the rear edges are not sharp... I just remember that I had this kit and a few of the Monogram Shermans to face off against my German armor...

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Rifle, CO. USA
Posted by M1GarandFan on Saturday, September 16, 2017 6:09 PM

Thanks for the picture. Wow, that's it! And in 1/40th scale!?!?

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: SF
Posted by gobears01 on Saturday, September 16, 2017 6:55 PM
yea I built it back in the early 60's too. It suffered a fourth of July battle though. I'd just build for the nostalgia and put next to my Monogram SBD from the same period, it's that old!

Offagain-Onagain

  • Member since
    July, 2014
  • From: Rifle, CO. USA
Posted by M1GarandFan on Saturday, September 16, 2017 8:08 PM

Oh man! Another one from my youth - the Mongram SBD. I remember it as a pretty detailed kit. It went with my Aurora Hellcat and Monogram TBF. Sorry about the a/c reference - wrong forum!

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Saturday, September 16, 2017 8:50 PM

M1GarandFan

Thanks for the picture. Wow, that's it! And in 1/40th scale!?!?

 

No, it is 1/36th, close enough to use 1/35 scale stuff. Revell did a military line in 1/40th so they called this early kit they had 1/40th, but it isn't.

It has large hatches, but the front slope looks like an early small hatch M4A1. The rear looks like a composite hull M4. With late war HVSS suspension and tracks plus a low bustle 75mm turret makes this an oddity.

Most M4A1 with HVSS were post war. M4 with HVSS was limited to the 105mm howitizer gunned tank.

The kit tracks were very crude. I intended to use the old MP Models HVSS track and suspension set to dress up my old kit, but it just wasn't worth the effort. Neat, old collectible kit, but not a genuine fixer upper.

My memory's not better, I just have my old builder's kit handy. I think I paid like $5 on eBay for a pieces part kit and had some parts from my 80s kit to complete it. I have a complete kit, I just don't think it's worth the effort. I'd rather spend my limited modeling time on nicer models. Right now some Bandai Star Wars kits and 1/48 scale Tamiya are more fun.

  • Member since
    September, 2004
  • From: Denver
Posted by tankboy51 on Saturday, September 16, 2017 10:05 PM

I built one of those kits 30 years ago as a joke.  I panted it white and florresent orange with US Navy rescue marking and a curved resin gun barrel.  I stil keep it around just for fun.   

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • From: Lacey, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Sunday, September 17, 2017 1:29 PM

stikpusher

Actually it looks like it may have been an attempt at a composite hull M4... but the rear edges are not sharp... I just remember that I had this kit and a few of the Monogram Shermans to face off against my German armor...

 

 

I would have a blast with that kit. I will definitely keep my eyes out for it!

- Mike Brindos

Figure Painting Moderator -- Genessis-Models

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • From: Lacey, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Monday, September 18, 2017 10:20 PM

- Mike Brindos

Figure Painting Moderator -- Genessis-Models

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 9:45 AM

I believe I still have a set of the old MP Models HVSS and tracks if you need them.

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • From: Lacey, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 9:58 AM

I'll have to give that some thought, Rob. Thank you. I'm not sure if I want to try and take this kit seriously or not. I'm okay with the toy- like nature of the kit, but that drive sprocket is just laughable at best. 

When I get a chance I'll give it a serious evaluation. Maybe I can make something out of it, or maybe it'll end up as a decompression build.

- Mike Brindos

Figure Painting Moderator -- Genessis-Models

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 11:52 AM

Hmm, I've been following this in case this might be something for my nephew who's only been modeling a few years but looks like one of the old Tamiya kits would be probably better for him. Esp since I've found them at shows for around ten-fifteen bucks. 

"Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that dragons can be killed." -G.K. Chesterton

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 12:10 PM

Gamera

Hmm, I've been following this in case this might be something for my nephew who's only been modeling a few years but looks like one of the old Tamiya kits would be probably better for him. Esp since I've found them at shows for around ten-fifteen bucks. 

 

Yes, getting the old Tamiya 75mm M4A3 ASA MULE kit is a pretty decent build and leap years beyond this dinosaur. On eBay, you can find them rather cheaply. Even the old Tamiya Jumbo is a good kit for a beginner.

As far as the HVSS, I decided it wasn't worth the effort to try to dress up the kit.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 1:11 PM

The old Tamiya T-34 models are good too. Easy and good looking.

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, September 19, 2017 1:29 PM

Yeah, I built the M4A3, T-34/76, T-34/85, and a bunch of the other vintage Tamiya kits back when I had hair. I guess if they were good enough for me to cut my teeth on they should be fine for him. 

"Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that dragons can be killed." -G.K. Chesterton

 

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • From: Lacey, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Wednesday, October 11, 2017 10:20 AM

Rob Gronovius

  

As far as the HVSS, I decided it wasn't worth the effort to try to dress up the kit.

 

I have come to the same conclusion, Rob. It's not worth the extra effort. Best just to build it for fun.

- Mike Brindos

Figure Painting Moderator -- Genessis-Models

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: SF
Posted by gobears01 on Thursday, October 12, 2017 10:14 PM

Absolutely guys. This is just an historical kit, really. No accuracy, just a build that looks cool on the shelf and, a bit of nostalgia.

Offagain-Onagain

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Friday, October 13, 2017 10:13 AM

M. Brindos
Rob Gronovius

  

As far as the HVSS, I decided it wasn't worth the effort to try to dress up the kit.

 

I have come to the same conclusion, Rob. It's not worth the extra effort. Best just to build it for fun.

 

I actually have an idea in the back of my mind to recreate this unusual version of the Sherman by kitbashing various Sherman kits from current up-to-date (or reasonable ones). I've given it thought and ask some questions on Missing Lynx several years ago, but that's about it.

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