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WWI & Inter war armor

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  • Member since
    January, 2015
WWI & Inter war armor
Posted by PFJN on Saturday, February 02, 2019 10:02 PM

Hi,

The recent 100 anniversary of the WWI Armistice got me realizing how little I new about that period.  As such I decided to do a small build of a captured British tank for the German armor group build currently going on.  The kit was an Emhar 1/72 scale Mk IV female variant heavy tank.  (Apparently during that era some tanks were armed only with machine guns, and referred to as a female variant, while others, which had 1 or more large guns were referred to as male variants.)

Overall I enjoyed the build alot.  Due to its small size it could really be built in a day if you wished, though I broke the construction up over two days, and then took some time messing around with paintimg it, especially allowing time for he paint to set/cure between coats.  Although I understand that there may be one or two details that may not be 100% correct in the kit, out of the box it builds up really nicely and wasn't too hard a build, even for a (more or less) mid-level model builder like me.

Anyway, aftyer building it, I decided to buy some additional kits from that era, including a 1/35 scale Male Mk IV, a 1/35 scale Emhar Female Mk IV, a 1/35 scale Takom Mk V, a 1/35 scale French FT-17 tank, a 1/72 scale Emhar Male tank, a 1/35 scale Emhar Tadpole Mk IV (with an elongated tail), a 1/72 scale Emhar German A7V tank, and a 1/72 Wespe French Schnieder tank, which all will probably keep me busy for a long, long time.

Below are a couple images of my 1st two builds (the captured female Mk IV and the German A7V) along with the resin French tank that I hope to start soon.  Although I have tried to search for stuff on this forum, I usually don't have much luck with the search feature.  As such, I was wondering who else here has done either a WWI or inter war armor build and would like to share some photos.

Regards

PF

TopSideFrontPenny

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    September, 2013
  • From: San Antonio, Texas
Posted by Marcus McBean on Saturday, February 02, 2019 10:12 PM

Sweet!

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Saturday, February 02, 2019 10:24 PM

Thanks,

I forgot that I am also currently trying to put together a 3D model of a small Spanish tank from the Spanish Civil War, called the Trubia-Naval, based on a paper model from the internet.

Trubia

Paper Model Source

Cad File

Depending on how things work out I'm hoping to try and 3D print it in 1/35 scale. Smile

PF

 

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    April, 2007
  • From: Amarillo, TX.
Posted by captfue on Saturday, February 02, 2019 10:25 PM

Nice build, love the idea of captured equipment

Rules are overrated
  • Member since
    May, 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Saturday, February 02, 2019 11:32 PM

I built the 1/35 Emhar Mk.V way back in the day before Tamiya and Takom came along with their excellent kits.  With replacement tracks and a lick of paint, the Emhar kit wasn’t bad, but the newer kits make it obsolete.  Will post pics when I get to a real computer.

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Sunday, February 03, 2019 8:24 PM

Hi,

I look forward to seeing your pics.  If you need a place to post them, drop me a PM.  I can upload them to a folder on my website for you.

The 1/35 Emhar kits are something I picked up off eBay at a fairly low price (basically I got both the male and female version for about the price of just one kit).  I'm not fully sure yet whether I will build them straight out of the box, or if I might try and make some small updates to them, or even use them to kitbash some "never-were" concepts.  Right now my building skills are still a bit rough (especially when it come to painting and weathering, etc) so I was happy to pick these two kits up, since their price was so low, and they don't look to much more difficult to build than ther 1/72 kits.

I figure I will probably hold off on the Takom kit for a while, and practice on some of these other, simpler kits first Stick out tongue.

One (or two) additional interwar tank(s) that I am interested in are the No 1 & No 2 designs from Vickers tested by the British in the early 1920s.  They have an interesting look that's a bit of a cross between the older Mark I-V Rhomboid designs and later turreted tanks.  If I can collect enough info on them I hope to try and scratchbuild one of them as well.  And if I can't get enough info, I may try and kitbash one of my Emhar kits into something vaguely similar Big Smile

No 2

http://www.felixshara.com/vickers-infantry-tank-no-1/

PF

 

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    August, 2012
  • From: Parker City, IN.
Posted by Rambo on Sunday, February 03, 2019 11:23 PM
Lawdog did a build a few months ago of a WWI tank that turned out very well. With all them kits you bought it sounds like you jumped in with both feet too WWI armor.

Clint

  • Member since
    August, 2012
  • From: Parker City, IN.
Posted by Rambo on Sunday, February 03, 2019 11:30 PM

http://cs.finescale.com/fsm/modeling_subjects/f/3/t/177628.aspx

Ok the search feature really sucks I ended up just searching back pages of the forum found it on page 10 I think, anyway he really did a great job on it.

Clint

  • Member since
    May, 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Monday, February 04, 2019 1:05 AM

PFJN,

If you get some aftermarket tracks (I think Takom sells their plastic ones separately too), you are good to go.  Don’t sweat the little details, just build them and pile on the mud!  After studying photos of the real things in the field, I don’t think you can possibly over weather them!

Thanks for the offer to host pics, but I have an account; I just haven’t figured out how to post from my phone!  It’s real wonky, slow, and lots of features seem absent.

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Monday, February 04, 2019 11:24 AM

Those look really cool PF! That's two eras I don't have much stuff in. And it's an interesting one. I had a book of First World War / Great War AFVs I traded to a friend for some kits with all kinds of photos of stuff from that era. Bridgelayers, APCs, SP guns, searchlight tanks- it's amazing a lot of stuff we think of with the Second World War was invented back in the First.  

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    May, 2011
  • From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Posted by Real G on Monday, February 04, 2019 4:01 PM

OK here is my rather old 1/35 Emhar Mk.V.

https://flic.kr/p/9KhdAT] [/url]Emhar Mk V-1 by N.T. Izumi, on Flickr

I used a lousy resin track set, but now much better sets exist from Takom and Friul.  Other than the tracks, the kit is pretty much box stock.

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Monday, February 04, 2019 6:19 PM

Wow, that looks great.  Thanks for sharing.  Although I probably won't start my Takom Mk V for some time, I keep going back and forth on whether to do it in a drab olive or earth brown paint scheme.  

Since I have my 1/72 Emhar kits to experiment with, I've been thinking of doing one brown, one green and maybe doing up the tadpole in battleship gray, to see how each looks Smile.

PF

PS.  I also broke down and bought a box of two resin and white metal 1/72 scale Trubia-Naval light tanks to help me with my CAD modeling.  Here is a picture of them alongside my Mk IV and A7V to show how small of a tank they were. Surprise

Trubia

 

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Saturday, February 09, 2019 11:51 PM

Hi,

I put the two Trubia-Naval tanks together and painted them up.  The kit came with some Spanish Republican/Basque decals and some Welsh decals for some "What-If" UK Civil war game set in the 1930s.  After searching the internet though it seems like the actual tanks may have had few if any markings during the war.  So I think that I may just add a little dirt/mud and a flat coat.

I included my WWI tanks in the image below to help show how small these tanks were in comparison.  At a little under 12ft (3.55m) in length they would have been just about the same length as my subcompact Chevy Spark Stick out tongue

PF

Models

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Sunday, February 10, 2019 3:29 PM

Was a fascinating time that looks very odd from the lens of history, unless you look at all of the parts.

The light MG, as in 1-2 man portable, was an invention of the future.  So, automatic weapons were hearvy and needed lots of protection.  A single emplaced Vickers wanted about a 5 man crew and was a few hundred paonds of gear.

Putting a heavy MG bullet resistant box that could advance at a walking pace across a battlefield seemed very logical at the time.

The way you dealt with emplaced MGs was to use a 2 to 9 pound field gun to engage them with counter-battery fires.  So, in the advance, it also made sense to bring anti-MG arms across the battelfield, and the pace of an infantryman seemed logical as well.

Now, some of the thinkers took this a step further and said,   having 1 or 2 men able to replace 5 and also advance over a battle ground was also a net gain.  Smaller target also being less vulnerable to atrillery fires against it.  (Because this was all new, the workload requirements for having only one man to drive mechanically under-reliable vehicles; or having one man loading, and firing a gun and also directing movement was not fullt thought out.)

The competing concepts of large vehhicles and small ones both had to cope with the ability to span battlefield obstacles.  Which made some of the large vehicles overly so; and made some of the smaller ones similarly large.  And, all had an Achilles Heel of mechanical reliability.

The idea of arming a heavy metal box to shoot at other heavy metal boxes took a bit longer to gel.

Even so, the tactical doctrines were still muddy even well into WWII.  And this even after everyone realized that combined arms had made trench campaigns obsolete.  Which often happens because technology lurches forward in less predictable ways.

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Sunday, February 10, 2019 8:08 PM

CapnMac,

Thanks for your response.  Learning about these vehicles on line, as I reseatrch about them has really helped highlight alot of the technical challenges faced at the time and how the designers from different nations tried to meet each country's specific needs.

Today I started to try and build the resin Schneider kit that I have, but it is turning out to be a fair bit of a challenge for me.  I haven't really worked much with resin before, with the exception if the two small Spanish tanks I just put together. 

Overall the Spanish tanks were quite easy, each consisting of only 6 parts, 4 of which were a fairly dense resin that feels alot like regular styrene plastic.  The other 2 parts were white metal gun barrels.  I found that if I just let the glue set for a few minutes, I was able to stick those resin parts together with clear Gorilla glue, and I was able to attach the white metal gun barrels with a no-name CA glue that I had handy.

Unfortunately, On the French tank build (which has about 22 parts, all molded in a relatively light and brittle resin) neither glue seems to provide much of a bond, even after letting the glue set for several minutes.  It probably also hasn't helped that for several of the parts, the matting surfaces are either very small or consist of very thin edges.

Anyway, I have most of the main body together right now (excluding the track/suspension parts) and intend to let the glue set till tomorrow. If all goes well I hope to prime and paint it sometime this week Big Smile

PF

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Monday, February 18, 2019 10:18 PM

Hi,

I picked up a 1/35 scale French Renault R35 kit over the weekend off eBay.  It was an old Heller kit sold as open box, whichthe seller said that it looked like there ware extra parts included, but no instructions (or decals).

When I got it I found enough trees for the hull and running gear (but no treads) for two complete kits, but only enough parts for one turret.  In addition, although the original kit was packaged with some accessories, like crew figures, some chain and a towed anti-tank gun, those were not included anymore.

Overall, I'm really happy with the buy, since I can do one model up as a short barrel variant, and use the parts for the other either to do a long barrel variant, or maybe even a modified R40 build.

Overall, since I have almot enough parts for two kits the lack of crew and treads (and the other accessories) isn't a big deal, especially since it looks like the original Heller treads were the rubber band style that you had to "melt the tabs together" to attach.  Looking at eBay it appears that there may be several optional treads that I can consider.

I started building the first build this weekend and discovered that the turret sprues are actually from a Hobby Boss kit instead of the Heller kit.  Unfortunately, while the sprues are complete, it appears that the Hobby Boss model uses a brass barrel (and possibly a photo-etch wheel on the main gun) which were not inculded.  As such, I have cleaned up a piece of sprue for now, to use as a stand in gun barrel.

The other odd thing I discovered is that apparently Heller and Hobby Boss made different assumptions on the diameter of the turret ring.  The Heller one is larger in diameter, so I am looking into trying to 3D print an "adapter piece" to mate the Hobby Boss turret to my Heller hull.

Below is a quick picture of the build so far.  In general it was a very easy and relaxing build.  Since I'm not sure yet how I want to paint the model, I have just given it a basic light beige ("linen") covering for now Smile

R35

PF

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, February 18, 2019 10:37 PM

On our side, the M2 and wartime M3 Stuart were a usable cavalry tank.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Monday, February 18, 2019 10:52 PM

It's such a broad subject that it goes way beyond what models are available, when one considers combat effective hardware in time and place.

The ruling units in war were always artillery, after about the American Civil War.

Certainly in WW1 artillery on land controlled the battlefield, and at sea it was respected for it's relative and destructive power.

Tanks certainly played a role in WW 2 on the ETO, not existent in the PTO.

 But other more understood tactics and technology controlled the outcome.

The point I am making is that the interwar arms technology was primarily artillery and aircraft. 

In the navies, aircraft carriers, not gun ships.

Consider the development of artillery in the interwar period, whether on land or at sea, as a major modeling subject.

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Tuesday, February 19, 2019 9:59 PM

Hi,

I still have to add the machine guns and do a few more paint details, but my 1/72 scale French WWI Schneider tank is almost complete Stick out tongue

PF

Tanks

[The Schneider is the one in the center of the front row]

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 11:41 AM

Those look great PF! 

 

I have not built the Heller R35 but I did build their Somua S35 years ago and it did have the 'rubber band' type tracks. Interesting that the Heller and Hobby Boss kit should be that different. Maybe the HB one is based on newer data? Seems odd to me though that a French company like Heller couldn't just measure the size of the turret ring right off a R35 in a French museum though. 

In any case your results look really good! 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Wednesday, February 20, 2019 7:42 PM

Hi everyone,

Thanks for the feedback.  Here is a picture of my build with the adapter ring fitted.

Ring

It may be a little hard to see since I printed it in black, but since my black filament is almost used up right now, I figured it didn't make sense to change it out for just this print.  If you click on the image you can see it more closely.

Anyway, in looking up stuff on the Hobby Boss kit on the internet I see that they kind of model the ring as having an outer larger diameter and a smaller inner diameter, as shown below.  As such, I am left wondering if Heller just made there connection match the outer radius while Hobby Boss made their turret match the inner ring radius.

PF

HB

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Thursday, February 21, 2019 9:00 PM

Hi,

I just recieved a 1/35 Bronco Hotchkiss H39 tank that I was able to get for a (hopefully) good price off eBay. 

H39

I'm really excited to get this kit, as it comes with interior details such as the driver's seat and controls, the engine, and other drive train components.

As I understand it the H39 Hotchkiss tank was an update to an earlier H35 tank that was initially designed to the same spec as the Renault R35 tank, so that they have alot in common.  I believe that a couple of the main differences between the H39 and H35 Hotchkiss tanks were differences in the engine and the fitting of a longer calibre 37mm gun.  However, I believe that the H39, H35 and R35 tanks were all designed to fit the same turret, and as such I believe that they should have the same turret ring diameter (though I'm not 100% certain).

As such I went ahead and laid the Hotchkiss and Renault turrets side by side, and upper parts do look as near identical s I can see, as shown below.  (Sorry its a little fuzzy, my phone isn't so great with close ups).

Turrets

Interestingly though, when I compare the turret ring diameter of the Hobby Boss turret to the Bronco turret I find that I can "just fit" the Hobby Boss ring into the Bronco ring, as shown below.

Comparison

Both models

Here the gray parts are from the Bronco H39 model and the beige turret is the Hobby Boss turret.  As shown above I can fit the turret ring of the beige turret just within the turret ring of the gray bottom part of the Hotchkiss turret.

As such, it kind of looks like Heller, Hobby Boss, and Bronco may have all used slightly different assumed diameters for their turrets. Surprise

PF

 

 

 

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, February 22, 2019 10:22 AM

Now that's interesting, funny how three companies all have different measurements. I'd love to try to measure the real deal and see which is closest. 

Would love to see you build that H39, looks like a nice kit. The early war Frence stuff doesn't get enough love.  

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Friday, February 22, 2019 12:26 PM

Hi,

I agree.  Some of the interwar and early war planes, tanks and other equipment are really fascinating but often get overlooked.  I am really looking forward to building the Hotchkiss tank, since it has a lot of the interior modeled.  Its always been of interest to me to be able to look inside the "shell" of a plane, tank, or car, etc and get a little better understanding of what is inside.  I'm kind of glad though that I started with the Renault models first, since they are fairly easy kits, in order to help me build up my nerve to try and tackle a more detailed one. Stick out tongue

It is odd how all three companies appear to have assumed a slightly different distance for the turret ring though.

PF

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Sunday, February 24, 2019 1:40 AM

Hi,

I started my Hotchkiss model yesterday and it is coming along fairly well.  Though, I have to admit that I was a bit surprised by a couple things.  There is nothing at all wrong with the kit though 

  • the instructions seem kind of vague in some areas
  • the plastic is kind of soft and a bit flexible (and reminds me a bit of the plastic on my Emhar WWI kits)
  • there are some noticeable ejector pin marks, though Bronco appears to have made an effort to put them on surfaces that shouldn't really show 
  • the track pieces are extremely small and I am having alot of difficulty trying to connect the links 
  • there are one or two pieces that really confuse me

Overall though, I'm not unhappy with the kit at all, but at times have either been scratching my head on whether I am putting some of the parts together correctly, or left wondering "why did they do something the way they did".  Tongue Tied

PF

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Sunday, February 24, 2019 8:45 PM

Hi,

Here is an image of my in-process Hotchkiss tank along side my Renault tanks (that is awaiting final painting, decals and its new tracks).  The black shape to the right is an early French WWII turret with the longer gun, that I 3D printed from a file that I found on the internet.  Unfortunately I think I may have mis-scaled it a bit as it came out noticeably small than the Bronco and Hobby Boss turrets.  I will double check my numbers tomorrow and try and reprint it again, so that I can clean it up for use on the 2nd Renault body that I have.

PF

Hotchkiss

 

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Monday, March 04, 2019 10:01 PM

Hi,

I'm making progress with my Hotchkiss tank and just recieved my tracks for my Renault R35, so I hope to start putting together tracks for both them soon.  I still have to add a few more small details though and then figure out how I want to paint them.

OpenClosed

In general for the Hotchkiss I have been thinking about doing a late Battle of France, green and brown scheme like shown below.

Wiki

(Source Wikipedia)

And for the Renault I was thinking of a three tone scheme maybe similar to these two tanks.

Wiki2

After that, I also went out and bought a 1/35 Tamiya Char B1 model to add to my collection (but it'll be a couple weeks before it gets here Tongue Tied

PF

 

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Tuesday, March 05, 2019 9:41 AM

Those look really good! I like the looks of the French camo, they're going to look cool in it! 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Tuesday, March 05, 2019 4:13 PM

Gamera,

Hi.  Thanks for the feedback.  The French had some really fascinating pre-war/early war camouflage, but I don't think my painting skills are up to anything too complex.  My favorites though are probably the Char B1 bis tank "Fantasque" and some of their early 6-tone schemes.

Char B16 Tone

R35D

PF

1st Group Build

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, March 06, 2019 10:34 AM

Yeah, I love those! 

I saw a colour profile of 'Le Fantasque' a few years ago and one day I want to get around to trying to do a Char B up in that scheme. 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

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