Good afternoon Gents,
First off I've just bought a pot of 'Filter' for use on vehicles painted Panzer Grey. Being 'ready to go from the bottle' It looks superb, particularly as this type of thing is something I'm yet to try. Have any of you guys used this stuff and if so, what did you think?
ATVB & many thanks,
On the Bench - Dragon Pz. IV Ausf. G (L.A.H.)
The stuff works just fine, but personally I just make my own. Its pretty simple. All you need is the same stuff you use to make pin washes, only instead your misture is about 5% artist oil to thinner (basically you want the consistency of "dirty" thinner) You want each layer subtle. The Mig filters are made to fit certain colors and takes guesswork out, but the thing about them is each layer is the same color. Making your own allows for subtle variations.
MIG filters are wonderful and can be layered on top of each other and also randomly to great effect. I use them extensively. Black Star puts out an Advanced Painting Techniques booklet out by Ruben Gonzalez that is worth picking up to learn how to use the filters to get the most out of medium. Mig's FAQ book is one of my favorite possessions that goes into more detail.
I'm wanting to try new methods with oils & filters. I've been using Oil washes on my last couple of builds now with great success & I've been speaking with Bill Plunk about dot filters too. I'd like to try dot filtering out on this Pz I I am currently working on and saw this MIG Filter in my LHS today. It was only £4.50 so I thought I'd give it a go.
Again I would suggest research and study to learn how to use expensive materials before applying them on a model. Just the German in me.
I could never bring myself to spend 8.50 for something i could make for (sorta) free. Filters are pretty cool though. You can apply them with an airbrush (for uniform finishes) or with a brush for a more "splotchy" look. I stippled a filter of Naples Yellow oil onto the horizontal surfaces of a tiger and it looked subtley like splotchy dust. Give them a shot!
I normally just use the standard issue oil wash but have been looking into dot filters etc. I'd like to try something different with this Pz I WIP that I have going. When I popped into my LHS yesterday they had one tub of Filter for Panzer Grey Vehicles and as it was only about £4 I thought 'why not' and bought the tub to try out.
I'll see how it goes.
Ben having read through this one I must say it is interesting. Mig products are of the highest quality and do provide an exact consistency, just shake well.
Making your own is a learning curve, maybe an old hull and lots of practice.
Last year Games Workshop brought out a set of acrylic washes. Now I have not used these on vehicles but have had sucess with them on figures. At theh end of the day its all about how you have mastered the materials at hand. As Edmund says the MIG book FAQ is just brilliant and for some people an absolute must.
Practice is the most important and to answer your question YES those filters are great but as some of the other guys said you can also do similar yourself.
On another note I use a lot of the MIG production oil paints and love them, the ouderless thinners is what I use all the time with all my oils. I just find it to be a better quality thinner.
I was using Humbrol thinner wit humbrol paint on my Centauro now maybe its just me but I thought that even a brand new bottle of Humbrol thinner was a little bit syruppy or thickish/heavy.
Good luck with the product and I hope you get the best from it.
I've got a bucket load of MIG stuff in my kit box and always use their pigments and grease stains and rain/water marks.
I normally use my standard oil paints and Mineral Spirits (white spirits) for my oil washes. Do you reckon the MIG 'Thinners for Washes' with my oils would be better for my oil washes than the current mineral spirits that I use?
I'm yet to use any type of Filter, the only time I use oils at present is during washes.
Out of interest do you use acrylics or enamels and do you use any form of barrier ie Klear/Future or gloss varnish.
I have not used the Mig "thinners for washes", but honestly can't imagine they will offer you much more than what your oderless mineral spirits gives you. Really, as I mentioned above, a filter is only a very very diluted pin wash that you paint over the entire surface instead of just apply to crevices, etc. So the effects are going to be no different than from your pin washes. And that goes also for the base coat. You will need an acrylic base before using the OMS (and I assume the same for the Mig "thinner for washes").
Well Ben I hope I didn't open a can of worms with my statement, I prefer the MIG thinners mainly because there is little else available here in Dublin. The stuff from the DIY shops I find a little hard and smelly but I think the real answer when it gets to washes that work best is use the best you can afford, its all practice and technique.
I would love to try the rain marks stuff, looks great. I think it could be done with Tamiya acrylics just as good but I would practice on a scrap model first.
There are others from art supply shops but this is down to preference. To put it another way, I refuse to use Rowney oil paint because I find it gets "Bitty" kinda breaks into pigment when diluted too much but I love Windsor & newton works a treat and believe it or not I have tubes that must be at least 15 Years old and still useable.
The MIG oils are beautiful. They kinda remind me of the Rembrandt range that was in vogue years ago but have become hard to find. I only know of one supplier in Folkstone.
My main sources of paint for the last 10 years have to be VAllejo and games workshop, excellent stuff. The games workshop "Foundation Colours" are excellent. they can be applied very dilute.
I use Windsor and newton oils.
Last year Robin from Cammet put me onto life colour, again excellent. I love their oilstains etc..
As for protection of the paint. I Always prime. My preference is REvell Basecoat, but if I can't get that I use Gamesworkshop stuff from the aersol.
Before Decalling I paint the areas with Johnsons Klear just for the gloss finish. Then on with the decals and my favourite tool in the whole world Micro sol, I could easily name micro sol as a hobby. I used to do a lot of formula one cars and loved applying the Decals.
Before I start washes etc. YES I do hit the surface with Humbrol matt49 from theh airbrush with about a 50/50 mix and give it about 3to 4 days drying time. Sometimes I use Vallejo matt from their AIR range. I always put a barrier but I change according to how lazy I'm feeling. I find Humbrol matt 49 the best but cleaning the airbrush is not one of my favourite pastimes.
Gentleman - just adding my . I use both.....well I love the MIG washes but I also use Windsor and Newton Oils. The MIG washes are just convenient for certain wash type work.
As far as the other MIG products, pigments, specialty items etc.....are all superior. I have never bought a MIG finish product that I have not been impressed with!!
As far as MIG thinner....that may be a horse of another color....a good quality clear and if possible odorless mineral spirits will do the trick....IMO
"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."
Good afternoon chaps,
Now I've learnt a fair bit and I've got a host of materials at my disposal I'm keen to try out some new methods.
I've got plenty of oil paints, plenty of MIG stuff, Klear etc etc..............
I'm looking at doing a dot filter the Panzer I'm currently working on-I've never done one before. Bill Plunk has been answering a lot of questions via pm and has been a great help but tbh I'm a tad confused as to what methods to deploy and at what stage. Bill has his own step-by-step guide which he has kindly passed onto me (a guide which perhaps would suit my Grey Pz I but maybe not a different vehicle).
At present my Pz is fully painted with the base colour (Tamiya Acrylic) and is ready to recieve decals and light chipping/drybrushing. Bill uses an all over Future application-either because it helps with his washes etc or just because he uses enamels, I can't quite remember! Sorry Bill!
Now then, I'm planning to use Future-this time, for my decals and, from what I've read, to aid with my washes. This is what I'm planning to do overall and I'll pop some questions in along the way.....................
Basically, I need your thoughts on my use of Klear-all over or just where the decals will go? Do I use dot filter or MIG Filter or both-if both, which do I use first? Anything else you wnat to add that you think might help then go for it!
Learning how to feed yourself is a large part of this Hobby and practice models, research and technique books and posts are huge. That is why I suggested the Black Star Advanced Painting Techniques booklet out by Ruben Gonzalez because he takes a Stug and literally cuts it in half and shows all the steps and techniques for Dark Yellow and German Grey.http://www.militarymodelling.com/news/article.asp?a=4297
Mig's FAQ book walks you through all the techniques in a logical order based on paint color which is a tremendous help until this becomes second nature. Pushing other peoples threads off the first page because you make separate threads for all your questions is just bad forum etiquette IMHO.I have tried to PM you about this behavior privately and was ignored so here it is publically. This is a community we share with each other and support each other. You post on two forums that I am aware of in two different time zones so posting a question within your current WIP is enough and it is unfair to others to post multiple individual questiosn do to your impatience.
I and others have done nothing but be supportive to you here so my suggestion is to invest in learning how to feed yourself via reference books just like we do. There are no shortcuts in this hobby! Not that I or many others are not willing to freely share our experience and techniques but that should be the last button you push not the first. If you find to much information which is often the case and one of your main complaints on your posts simply experiment and document your results for others.
Again I hope you take this feedback in the community spirit it is intended. When I see 3-4 post questions on top of your WIP on the first page I just cringe. Again this is just my impressions and opinions.Sincerely,
I'm sorry buddy but I just have this thirst for knowledge sometimes that get's me carried away.
I'll get the books - I've already got the links to a place that I can get LOTS of modelling books from, I really should invest in a few, you're right!
I appreciate your honesty and am glad you are honest in this way - at least doing so I can adjust the way I conduct myself on here.