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Micro-sol vs Solvaset?

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  • Member since
    May, 2008
  • From: Budd Lake, New Jersey
Micro-sol vs Solvaset?
Posted by BeltFed on Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:36 PM

I have bth in my arsenal, and both give me issues.  These are my results with these products, any idea what causes them and how to solve/ prevent them?  Which do you like better?

(all decals are applied over a base coat of Future which had been given at least 24 hours to cure.  solutions applied as soon as decals are in place)

Solvaset- Usually works great, but more often then not it comes at the hand of numerous air bubbles.  I pick these with a needle and apply more solution.  Sometimes the holes and bubbles disappear, sometimes they dont. any fool-proof method?  Worst of all, i have found that sometimes solvaset weekens or changes the paint.  Sometimes it leave marks, almost as if it was disolving a layer of paint.  Other times it discolors the areas around the decal.  Why?

 

Micro-sol- usually applied after micro-set.  A lot of times, it does little to conform the decal.  Other times it wrinkles the decal, and even after drying, the wrinkles don't disappear.  It also east away at the paint.

  • Member since
    April, 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:42 PM

Sol is much stringer than Set.  I rarely use Sol.  If you getting air bubbles it because you have air underneath.  Not trying to be  smarthindqutaters but the air cannot get in there unless you leave it there.  I always slide and position decal with plain water.  I wick away the water with a q-tip or tissue.  Use some Set to get it wet and genty... and quickly before the decal gets soft... with with a brash from the center out to get all the bubbles out.

For the paint it sounds like your paint is not fully dry/cured.  Sol and Set shouldn't have any effect on paint.

Marc  

  • Member since
    April, 2005
  • From: Piscataway, NJ!
Posted by wing_nut on Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:45 PM

Whoa.. just notice the title of the thread.  I was talking about the difference between MicroSet and MicroSol....not Solveset.  That to decal solutions is what grain alcohol is to booze.  I can almost count on 1 hand the numbers of times I needed to pull that trigger.

Marc  

  • Member since
    July, 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Wednesday, May 19, 2010 6:55 PM

Belt Fed - I totally agree with Micosol which is taking up space on my shelf. I use Solveset. I make the decal lay down and conform. I have have few bubble problems but if I do...just work them out.

Given the choice between the two, I like Solveset hands gown...IMO

Rounds Complete!!

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    June, 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Thursday, May 20, 2010 9:36 AM

Test on spares to see if you need full-strength or diluted mix..

  • Member since
    April, 2003
  • From: Crestview, Florida
Posted by MQM107 on Thursday, May 20, 2010 9:42 AM

Hammer do you use it straight from the bottle or do you cut it with water?

  • Member since
    March, 2010
  • From: Winamac,Indiana 46996-1525
Posted by ACESES5 on Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:09 AM

Hey Hammer: That viniger is also for stuberon decals put a couple drops in your water to help brake them loose.            Bow DownBow DownBow Down       ACESES5

  • Member since
    January, 2003
  • From: Hancock, Me USA
Posted by p38jl on Thursday, May 20, 2010 10:49 AM

sometimes with me also.. escpecialy over Future. I do get a ring or "stain" from both.. if I go over Testers gloss.. no issues...

as for bubbles.. pricking the bubbles, or rolling a q tip over the decal will work it out..

[Photobucket]

  • Member since
    January, 2012
Posted by I make stuff on Thursday, May 20, 2010 12:08 PM

I hate decals.  There, i said it.  My preference is stencils, masks, etc.   I got some german crosses, and allied stars, very nice multi sized metal stencils, for about the cost of a decal sheet. 

Sometimes, i realize, this will not work, then I use dry transfers.

Sometimes, this won't work, either.  i have only used Micro set and Micro sol, and I have only used them twice, I had no problems like you describe.  But I still hate decals.      

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Texas
Posted by wbill76 on Thursday, May 20, 2010 1:31 PM

I use Solvaset exclusively over Future and never experienced any problems with it attacking paint through the Future. What type of paints do you use (I use enamels exclusively).

I always apply the decal into position first using water to wet the location first, then move the decal into position, adjust as necessary, then use the edge of a paper towel or a q-tip to wick away the extra water. This insures that the decal has minimal-to-none air underneath it. For larger decals I will also gently press it with the papertowel/q-tip to insure it's got good adhesion to the surface. Only then do I apply the Solvaset. On really complex surfaces the occasional air bubble will occur, under those conditions I will apply a spot of Solvaset and then gently "work" the bubble to lay down using either a brush, a toothpick end, brush handle, etc. depending on the size/nature of what I'm dealing with. Very rarely will I need to *** a bubble to get it to go away. HTH! Beer

  • Member since
    July, 2006
  • From: New Jersey
Posted by redleg12 on Thursday, May 20, 2010 2:03 PM

wbill76

I use Solvaset exclusively over Future and never experienced any problems with it attacking paint through the Future. What type of paints do you use (I use enamels exclusively).

I always apply the decal into position first using water to wet the location first, then move the decal into position, adjust as necessary, then use the edge of a paper towel or a q-tip to wick away the extra water. This insures that the decal has minimal-to-none air underneath it. For larger decals I will also gently press it with the papertowel/q-tip to insure it's got good adhesion to the surface. Only then do I apply the Solvaset. On really complex surfaces the occasional air bubble will occur, under those conditions I will apply a spot of Solvaset and then gently "work" the bubble to lay down using either a brush, a toothpick end, brush handle, etc. depending on the size/nature of what I'm dealing with. Very rarely will I need to *** a bubble to get it to go away. HTH! Beer

Bill - I use the same method BUT.....Solveset is a solvent which softens the decal and also softens the Future....to some extent, thats how the edges of the decal blend in. If, like me you use acrylic paint.....it will also soften the paint. Now...with that said, if you apply solveset sparingly and when first applied, blot/soak the excess that migrates to the paint, you are fine.

If the soveset sits on the paint for a period long enough to almost let it evaporate.....it may leave a mark and the area where it dried will be soft and if touched will mar the finish

Solveset is GREAT for setting decals, but it is a solvent. Be careful not to have excess.

Even with enamel, it may not get at the paint but may mar the Future and thus give a surface effect!!

Rounds Complete!! 

"The Moral High Ground....A Great Place to Emplace Artillery."

  • Member since
    October, 2007
  • From: Scotland
Posted by Milairjunkie on Thursday, May 20, 2010 2:20 PM

I have use Micro-Sol &Set & while they have worked, I cant really say I have been very impressed - one thing is for sure (in my experience anyway), they dont give the "painted on" look as some claim.

I have considered using Solvaset, which I belive is stronger than Sol/Set, but was concerned about using them with Tamiya acrylics, although these are usually Future coated - any comments?

  • Member since
    July, 2014
Posted by batai37 on Thursday, May 20, 2010 2:26 PM

I've read several reports that Solvaset will virtually destroy some decals, so caution is indicated. I use MicroSol myself.

  • Member since
    June, 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Friday, May 21, 2010 2:25 PM

MQM107

Hammer do you use it straight from the bottle or do you cut it with water?

Depends... Usually I cut it by about 25%... But with thick ones, I use it straight up...

  • Member since
    June, 2009
  • From: Netherlands
Posted by kermit on Friday, May 21, 2010 2:44 PM

I have to say that i rarely, at all, use the bottle of microset on my hobbybench. Actually only to remove decals. Thinking about it i usually create more problems by using the solution than actually solving them...

 I found it to have little effect on the decalling process myself. Microsol however is my best friendSmile. Usually takes a few coats to get to the place i wanna go but i never ever had any problems with it. Kinda like that since it gives more control in a way.

And like has been said before: You wont have any bubbles under your decals if you properly apply them in the first place. I found cotton swabs, demakeup pads (usually get funny looks at the counter when i buy them LOL) and the old trusty index finger to be most useful in that area.

In case i do find some bubbles under my decal i have this needle type tool that the ladies use for their greeting card hobby. It's really fine tipped and always solves my problems. I just cover my decal in dozens of tiny holes and apply set again. Never encountered visible holes afterwards. Maybe just luck i don't know...

Lastly i have to add that usually when i quit the decalling process and let the model sit on my bench overnight some bubbles actually dissapear by themselvesSmile Probably residue sol still at work i think...

Richard

P.s.: Oh... and you won't have any discoloured paint problems if you apply a layer of future or the likes before the decalling process. If there is any adverse effect at all your solution will attack the future and not your paint

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Sir Winston Churchill

  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Charlotte, North Carolina
Posted by the doog on Friday, May 21, 2010 2:55 PM

I don't fell like MicroSol does anything much at all for me. I use Solvaset and put it on and then after a few minutes, use a wide, soft brush wetted with water to press the decal down--which also helps to dilute the Solvaset. I've never had problems with stains or paint degradation.

My FOTKI model gallery with most of my best models can be found HERE

My real name is "Karl" Smile

  • Member since
    May, 2008
  • From: Budd Lake, New Jersey
Posted by BeltFed on Friday, May 21, 2010 10:30 PM

I pretty much do everything you guys said but still have problems.  Must be one of those things I guess (shrug)

 

I think its time for me to look into dry transfers and stencils.  One quick question on the matter then its off to bed- are "Archer fine transfers" decals or dry transfers?

  • Member since
    June, 2008
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Hans von Hammer on Saturday, May 22, 2010 7:16 AM

Dry... But they also carry waterslide...

 

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Not so Sherman on Thursday, August 10, 2017 5:05 AM

I have just returned to 1/35 modelling after 30 years and am frantically trying out all these " new" technologies and products . I am currently using micro set/sol and have started by simply applying over brushed acrylics with no real side effects other than a slight tide mark however I am not convinced they are significantly improved over the traditional water slide method . I will be trying them over Tamiya clear flat in the next couple of days 

  • Member since
    March, 2003
  • From: Northern New Jersey
Posted by Tojo72 on Friday, August 11, 2017 7:53 PM

Not so Sherman

I have just returned to 1/35 modelling after 30 years and am frantically trying out all these " new" technologies and products . I am currently using micro set/sol and have started by simply applying over brushed acrylics with no real side effects other than a slight tide mark however I am not convinced they are significantly improved over the traditional water slide method . I will be trying them over Tamiya clear flat in the next couple of days 

 

Nooo,you need to apply your decals over a glossy finish or they will not get down correctly and they will silver.You can use Future or any of the the available gloss coats,I prefer Alclad Aqua Gloss.As far as using setting solutions,you may not need them on a smooth surface,but they make a huge difference when your decal must go over panel lines,rivets,and protrusions,you absolutley need a setting solution.The Microsoft solutions work fine for all but the heaviest decals or the deeper panel lines or protusions.

  • Member since
    September, 2013
  • From: San Antonio, Texas
Posted by Marcus McBean on Friday, August 11, 2017 10:34 PM

On flat surfaces I can get by with Micosol, but if I need to put the decal on a unlevel surface I go right with Solveset.  Sometimes Solveset needs a little help.  I would have to make cuts into the decal to help to get the decal to lay down. 

I have to be careful not to use to much Solveset.  The decal will look like it's not laying right but after letting it dry for a few hours the decal conforms, tighten's and looks fine.  If doesn't look right I give it more and make adjustments.

On a panzer II I had to put number decals over door hinges on the side of the turret and Solveset made it possible with little effort.

I spray the model with Future and let it cure for 24 hours before I add the decals.  Never had a problem with either Micosol or Solveset affecting the paint job.  Once I am happy with how the decals look I put a coat of Future just over the decals to protect them and move on to weathering and such, after the Future has dried and cured.

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