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T54-E1 FINISHED PICS!

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  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Charlotte, North Carolina
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 11:25 AM

Rob Gronovius

 

 

Markings would be mirrored front and rear. The triangle (Δ) is used to denote armor units and can be used after the division number as well as before the regimental number. Although for the most part, regiments are non-entities in the US Army with a few exceptions.

For example there were the 1Δ, 2Δ, 3Δ for 1st, 2nd and 3rd Armor Divisions in the US Army and the 49Δ and 50Δ for the 49th and 50th Armor Divisions in the Army National Guard.

But when used for battalions within a regiment, the triangle comes between the battalion number and regiment number.

For instance, I served with the 5th Battalion, 77th Armor Regiment. While there were other numbered battalions (1st thru 6th), the 77th Armor Regiment did not exist as a stand alone entity with a regimental headquarters. Back in WW2, when regiments did exist, there would be a regimental headquarters and three battalions. Company A, B, C would be 1st Bn, D, E, F was 2nd Bn, G, H, I was 3rd Bn, etc.

Battalion bumper numbers would be 1Δ77, 2Δ77, 3Δ77, etc. or sometimes could be seen as 4-77Δ, 5-77Δ, 6-77Δ depending on how that particular unit decided to paint them on.

 

Thanks too, Rob! That clarifies things a bit more too. I'm going to have to see what I can come up with with all the spares I have. The decals in the kit ae sparse, to say the least. Smile

My FOTKI model gallery with most of my best models can be found HERE

My real name is "Karl" Smile

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 11:34 AM

To add to Rob's post above, no US Army Tank Regiments or their sub battalions served in Korea during the war. Just tank companies and battalions attached to 8th Army, X Corps, or the various Infantry Divisions and Regiments. Army TO&E at that time had a tank company assigned to Infantry regiments. 

If you look at the unit codes in this photo, the tank is assigned to the 5th Infantry Regiments Tank Company

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 11:43 AM

This M46 is assigned to an unknown Tank Battalion attached to 8th Army, B Company, 1st Platoon, vehicle 5

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 11:46 AM

8th Army, 6th Tank Battalion... hard to tell the Company due to mud or dirt on that side's markings

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Charlotte, North Carolina
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 11:49 AM

stikpusher

To add to Rob's post above, no US Army Tank Regiments or their sub battalions served in Korea during the war. Just tank companies and battalions attached to 8th Army, X Corps, or the various Infantry Divisions and Regiments. Army TO&E at that time had a tank company assigned to Infantry regiments. 

If you look at the unit codes in this photo, the tank is assigned to the 5th Infantry Regiments Tank Company

 

 

Ah, ok....interesting. So what is "TK" on the right then? Surely, that's not a abbreviation for "tank"??

So here is a list I found of tank battalions and companies in the Korean War. I hate to ask you this, but could you give me some plausible markings from these groups? I would be looking for a heavy tank company of course. I THINK I understand the whole marking system somewhat, but honestly, I'm prone to screwing these kinds of things up, and you guys lived this and know it like the backs of your hands. I would definitely appreciate your expertise!

Rob, looks like you company was "Medium", or I would use that just to say thanks. Smile

Tank Battalion

Tank Company

My FOTKI model gallery with most of my best models can be found HERE

My real name is "Karl" Smile

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 1:03 PM

Yes, the "TK" stands for Tank as in Tank Company. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Charlotte, North Carolina
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:28 PM

stikpusher

Yes, the "TK" stands for Tank as in Tank Company. 

 

Carlos and Rob, thanks sincerely, for all the help you both have been!!! I'm really very grateful! I'm mentioning you both in the article! Smile

 

So here's some more work: I used the same process of masking with silly putty to get "claws" on the front.

I also settled on some markings "8A 1>   A28" (128 was my racing number!) I also put some of those numbers on the side, too.

I actually got on my computer and "Painted" a few photos with different Tiger-graphics schemes. I came up with the following....I am pretty happy with it so far.

Of course, I used silly putty to get the mask correct. I cut pieces out and then pasted them where I wanted them. I mixed up two different shades of Tamiya off-yellow, tinted with both Orange+Brown and then adding White.

I actually added literally a spot of black to make a "shadow" color, and sprayed that where appropriate...

Basically this is a three-tone yellow.

I will add black stripes to it tomorrow.

I also did the fenders to make "legs" in front. Thank god for sillly putty!

And here's some shots as it now looks....pretty cool. I'm going to add black stripes tomorrow..

Thanks for looking in guys!!! Opinions and suggestion welcomed! Smile

My FOTKI model gallery with most of my best models can be found HERE

My real name is "Karl" Smile

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:36 PM

That is looking very cool! Very creative to go with one of the Korean War tiger designs. And since it is a "what if", nobody can fang you on the bumper codes Wink 

Glad to help out, even if only a little, on this project of yours Karl.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Charlotte, North Carolina
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:41 PM

stikpusher

That is looking very cool! Very creative to go with one of the Korean War tiger designs. And since it is a "what if", nobody can fang you on the bumper codes Wink 

Glad to help out, even if only a little, on this project of yours Karl.

 

My first thought is "uh oh, did I really screw them up that badly?" Surprise

Let me guess--no number 8 tank in a platoon, right? I didn't even think of that until now...is that correct?

Glad you're liking the scheme! :)

My FOTKI model gallery with most of my best models can be found HERE

My real name is "Karl" Smile

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 7:57 PM

Lol, probably not an 8. Tank platoon organization strengths have varied over the years, but I don't believe that there were ever 8 in any. 

And yes, Korean War era cat schemes are probably some of my favorite US Army tank paint schemes. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Charlotte, North Carolina
Posted by the doog on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 8:09 PM

Lol, I'll definitely change that to a "3" then with a little paint. Don't want anyone to think that you and Rob steered me wrong! 

 

My FOTKI model gallery with most of my best models can be found HERE

My real name is "Karl" Smile

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 8:21 PM

Hi,

I really like your paint job.  Can't wait to see the finished model.

Pat

  • Member since
    July, 2008
  • From: Vancouver, the "wet coast"
Posted by castelnuovo on Wednesday, April 19, 2017 9:11 PM

That looks pretty darn cool Smile

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Thursday, April 20, 2017 7:51 AM

the doog

 

Rob, looks like you company was "Medium", or I would use that just to say thanks. Smile

 

By the 1980s, the US Army went to what was called the J-series MTOE as part of the Division '86 reorganization. Tank platoons went from the five tank formation (ex. A21 thru A25) to a four tank formation. With the exception of the 82nd Airborne's 3/73rd Sheridan battalion, there were no longer differentiations between between light, heavy and medium tank battalions.

The J-series MTOE also added a fourth tank company, D Co. with the three tanks swiped from each tank company (9 tanks) and an additional 5 tanks added to each battalion. Tank battalions went from 53 to 58 tanks.

The HQs and CSC (combat support companies) were combined into the HHC (Headquarters and Headquarters Company) we have today.

The US Army Combat Arms Regimental System had not taken place by the time of the Korean War. Separate numbered tank battalions were still being used.

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, April 20, 2017 8:19 AM

Now thats different. So from what carlos is saying, is this based on real designs worn in Korea.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

On the bench: Academy 1/72nd P-47D

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, April 20, 2017 11:27 AM

Bish

Now thats different. So from what carlos is saying, is this based on real designs worn in Korea.

 

Yes, the examples that I gave are based off of Korean War era information and photos.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, April 20, 2017 11:53 AM

Looking very cool Karl!!! 

Bish, do a websearch on 'tiger face sherman (or m26 etc) korean war' and you'll get piles of photos. 

"Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that dragons can be killed." -G.K. Chesterton

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, April 20, 2017 2:32 PM

Gamera

Looking very cool Karl!!! 

Bish, do a websearch on 'tiger face sherman (or m26 etc) korean war' and you'll get piles of photos. 

 

Blimey, your not kidding. Cheers.

 ''I am a Norfolk man, and I glory in being so''

On the bench: Academy 1/72nd P-47D

  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Charlotte, North Carolina
Posted by the doog on Thursday, April 20, 2017 7:50 PM

Rob Gronovius

 

 
the doog

 

Rob, looks like you company was "Medium", or I would use that just to say thanks. Smile

 

 

 

By the 1980s, the US Army went to what was called the J-series MTOE as part of the Division '86 reorganization. Tank platoons went from the five tank formation (ex. A21 thru A25) to a four tank formation. With the exception of the 82nd Airborne's 3/73rd Sheridan battalion, there were no longer differentiations between between light, heavy and medium tank battalions.

The J-series MTOE also added a fourth tank company, D Co. with the three tanks swiped from each tank company (9 tanks) and an additional 5 tanks added to each battalion. Tank battalions went from 53 to 58 tanks.

The HQs and CSC (combat support companies) were combined into the HHC (Headquarters and Headquarters Company) we have today.

The US Army Combat Arms Regimental System had not taken place by the time of the Korean War. Separate numbered tank battalions were still being used.

 

Wow, again, great info. I swear, I love doing these blog builds because of all the cool, arcane knowledge that you guys post; the guys who really know these things that would take you ages to find through google. Thanks for posting it, Rob. Great info for anyone who's interested in the whole numbering process and particulars of the various decades. BeerBeerBeer

I DID change my number from 8 to 3... :) :)

My FOTKI model gallery with most of my best models can be found HERE

My real name is "Karl" Smile

  • Member since
    January, 2007
  • From: Charlotte, North Carolina
Posted by the doog on Thursday, April 20, 2017 7:56 PM

Hey, thanks to everyone who's following along and looking in. I have a small update; the tiger stripes are finished. I also changed my tank number to three after incorrectly decaling in an "8". Whistling

 

My FOTKI model gallery with most of my best models can be found HERE

My real name is "Karl" Smile

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, April 20, 2017 9:18 PM

Now that looks pretty awesome! It may not be tactical for camouflage... but those cat faced tanks sure look just plain mean! 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by PFJN on Thursday, April 20, 2017 10:03 PM

stikpusher

Now that looks pretty awesome! It may not be tactical for camouflage... but those cat faced tanks sure look just plain mean! 

 

Hi,

I guess if maybe you're operating in an area known to have large tigers, it could maybe be considered tactical camoflage Stick out tongue

Pat

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Friday, April 21, 2017 12:38 AM

My that's a big one.

needs little " mouse" kill marks.

  • Member since
    January, 2015
  • From: Lacey, WA.
Posted by M. Brindos on Friday, April 21, 2017 12:38 AM

That needs to be in a movie, bursting out from some jungle! That's wicked!!

- Mike Brindos

Figure Painting Moderator -- Genessis-Models

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Friday, April 21, 2017 7:45 AM

Fantastic! 

"Fairy tales do not tell children the dragons exist. Children already know that dragons exist. Fairy tales tell children that dragons can be killed." -G.K. Chesterton

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Friday, April 21, 2017 9:39 AM

stikpusher

Now that looks pretty awesome! It may not be tactical for camouflage... but those cat faced tanks sure look just plain mean! 

 

That was the reasoning; it was thought that the Chinese feared the tiger so painting tiger faces on the tanks would be a bad omen to them.

  • Member since
    January, 2015
Posted by Moff on Saturday, April 22, 2017 8:02 AM

Wow, that's turning out amazing! 

"Gaiety is the most outstanding feature of the Soviet Union." - Josef Stalin 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Saturday, April 22, 2017 10:01 AM

the doog
 

Wow, again, great info. I swear, I love doing these blog builds because of all the cool, arcane knowledge that you guys post; the guys who really know these things that would take you ages to find through google. Thanks for posting it, Rob. Great info for anyone who's interested in the whole numbering process and particulars of the various decades. BeerBeerBeer

 

Yeah, I'm full of useless information. Back in the day, armor units were tought of as support and were not regimentalized. Cavalry units that eventually evolved into armor battalions did carry on some pre-WW2 lineage as did some previous infantry regiments that became armor regiments (68th Armor Regiment jumps to mind as one of the infantry regiments that became an armor regiment). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/68th_Armor_Regiment

My first battalion, 5/77 Armor had been 3/68 Armor until a couple of years before I got there. The Army does stupid stuff like that without thinking. Men who had been a part of one named unit for years get the unit name changed.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Saturday, April 22, 2017 4:21 PM

Rob Gronovius
 

Yeah, I'm full of useless information. Back in the day, armor units were tought of as support and were not regimentalized. Cavalry units that eventually evolved into armor battalions did carry on some pre-WW2 lineage as did some previous infantry regiments that became armor regiments (68th Armor Regiment jumps to mind as one of the infantry regiments that became an armor regiment). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/68th_Armor_Regiment

My first battalion, 5/77 Armor had been 3/68 Armor until a couple of years before I got there. The Army does stupid stuff like that without thinking. Men who had been a part of one named unit for years get the unit name changed.

 

The United States Army- 242 years of tradition unhampered by progress Wink. I arrived at my first line unit out of OSUT and the division replacement detachment and was assigned to the TOW Platoon of a CSC, Combat Support Company, of a Mech Infantry Battalion, 3/10. That morning the battalion was re organized under the Divison 86 TO&E and CSC was no more. The TOW platoon was enlarged to a full company, E Company, my new home. CSC was disbanded with Scouts and Mortars going to HHC, and the Redeye and GSR sections returning to ADA and MI Battalions respectively. Later that year, under COHORT plans, we changed colors from 3/10 Infantry, which had a long history with the Division, into 4/6 Infantry, which had no prior association with it. But was associated with our opposite COHORT unit, 1st Armored Division in Germany. 6 months in three different units, by name only. I had not gone anywhere but on paper.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    September, 2005
  • From: Groton, CT
Posted by warshipguy on Sunday, April 23, 2017 7:34 AM

Karl,

That is a beautiful job!  It looks Grrrrreeeeeaaaaattt!

Rob and Stik,

I remember throughout my Navy career as a Hospital Corpsman, the entire Medical Department went from being under the Bureau of Medicine and Surgery to Navy Medical Command to the Navy Department of Medicine and Surgery and finally back to the Bureau of Medicine and Surgery.  Individual medical facilities would change from Naval Hospitals to Health Care Facilities to Primary Care Clinics to Regional Branch Clinics, all while giving the same services as always.  I always figured that some Admiral or Captain in Washington needed another Navy Commendation Medal.

At least the Navy doesn't change the names of its ships!

Bill

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