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Tank Term Questions.

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  • Member since
    November, 2016
  • From: Baraboo, WI
Tank Term Questions.
Posted by Poniatowski on Wednesday, October 03, 2018 1:49 PM

Hi All,

If you have questions regarding 'Let's Talk Tanks' (Nov. 2018 FSM) you may ask here. Yes, I know the volute spring housing and volute spring were switched in the diagram and that more than two people can occupy a turret basket (such as on a Sherman), just editorial glitches . Remember, the article was mainly for US tanks, however, I'll answer any questions to the best of my ability.  I'll check back every day or two.

 

Cheers!

 

Ron

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Wednesday, October 03, 2018 2:52 PM

Interesting article. Though i must admit i had never heard of a bustle rack, i've only known it as a turret basket. But still an interesting feature.

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Wednesday, October 03, 2018 4:23 PM

I'd have liked to see a pronunciation guide. I'd always said bustle as if it rhymed with hustle. Not sure if it's correct.

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Wednesday, October 03, 2018 5:53 PM

Gamera

I'd have liked to see a pronunciation guide. I'd always said bustle as if it rhymed with hustle. Not sure if it's correct.

 

Thats how I always heard it pronounced during my time in the army. The turret bustle and bustle rack is a recognition feature of certain AFVs in Tank ID classes.

Now I did hear some other funky pronunciations during my career. When discussing armor penetration, I distinctly recall the instructor saying the weapon could burn thru x amount of “hōmōgēnēus” steel. Not like the homogenous milk I was used to talking about...

another instructor at another time and place pronounced the “cordon” in cordon and search ops like “cordón” as in chicken cordón bleu... 

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    October, 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Wednesday, October 03, 2018 6:09 PM

[quote user="Bish"]

Interesting article. Though i must admit i had never heard of a bustle rack, i've only known it as a turret basket. But still an interesting feature.

Bish, the turret basket is the floor the loader stands on. Also, having not read the artical, I wonder if the rails on the M48/ M60's turrets are called infantry rails. That's what we always called them.

 

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Bury St Edmunds, Suffolk, England
Posted by Bish on Thursday, October 04, 2018 2:04 AM

[quote user="M60_ tanker"]

Bish

Interesting article. Though i must admit i had never heard of a bustle rack, i've only known it as a turret basket. But still an interesting feature.

Bish, the turret basket is the floor the loader stands on. Also, having not read the artical, I wonder if the rails on the M48/ M60's turrets are called infantry rails. That's what we always called them.

 

 

 

Maybe its a nationality thing. I've just known that as the floor.

  • Member since
    November, 2009
  • From: SW Virginia
Posted by Gamera on Thursday, October 04, 2018 7:54 AM

Thanks SP, I tend to really foul up the way I pronunce names. 

 

Also, bogie- which I've always said as BOW-GEE like the nickname of Humphrey Bogart. Is this right!?!? 

"I dream in fire but work in clay." -Arthur Machen

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Thursday, October 04, 2018 10:29 AM

The "bustle rack" and the "turret basket" are two different things. A bustle rack is named after an old fashioned lady's bustle skirt which is a wire support that gave them a bigger butt under their dress. See the center model below.

The turret basket is the portion of the crew compartment that rotates with the turret. Previously on older tanks, the turret was separate and the crew had to "walk" with the turret as it rotated. A basket was added under the turret and the crew could now be seated and rotate with the turret. The turret floor is the bottom of the turret basket. The area under the turret floor is called the sub-turret floor. A black hole where hand tools vanish.

This is a turret basket, a basket hanging under the turret.

Bustle rhymes with hustle.

Bogies sound like the actor's name.

The rails on M48, M60 and M1 tanks are called "grunt rails" even though infantymen no longer are able to hang onto them (as on the Abrams tank). Grunt rails are on the side and the bustle rack is on the rear, although today, they rails basically continue around the back to become the bustle rack on an Abrams.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by laskdjn on Thursday, October 04, 2018 5:22 PM

In AAVs, we just called the area under the turret basket the hull, like the rest of the bottom of the vehicle.  And while we didn't have a bustle rack on our turret, we had cargo racks on either side of the vehicle itself, but that's getting more into AFVs, than tanks.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Thursday, October 04, 2018 5:29 PM

stikpusher

 Not like the homogenous milk I was used to talking about...

That's not a thing.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, October 04, 2018 5:37 PM

GMorrison

 

 
stikpusher

 Not like the homogenous milk I was used to talking about...

 

 

That's not a thing.

 

 

homogenized? 

My main point being that there were no long vowels in the word as I ever heard it pronounced. Nothing to do with milk itself.

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Thursday, October 04, 2018 5:40 PM

Rob Gronovius

 A bustle rack is named after an old fashioned lady's bustle skirt which is a wire support that gave them a bigger butt under their dress. See the center model below.

 

 

 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November, 2016
  • From: Baraboo, WI
Posted by Poniatowski on Sunday, October 07, 2018 1:56 PM

Hmmm. Replies aren't showing up with the one I'm responding to. Going to have to work on that.

 

  • Member since
    November, 2016
  • From: Baraboo, WI
Posted by Poniatowski on Sunday, October 07, 2018 1:57 PM

I've always heard it pronounced similarly, "Bussle" too... Of course, there are always some variations.  As long as people understand it's all good.

 

:D Ron

  • Member since
    November, 2016
  • From: Baraboo, WI
Posted by Poniatowski on Sunday, October 07, 2018 2:00 PM

Hi All,

Sorry about the slow replies and reply problems. I'm still getting used to this forum format. I had checked the box to alert me to replies to this thread, but none have been delivered. I see that there has been some discussion. 

Now, I have to learn to upload images to these forums, so put that on the to-do list.

 

:D Ron

 

 

  • Member since
    November, 2016
  • From: Baraboo, WI
Posted by Poniatowski on Sunday, October 07, 2018 2:09 PM

Here's one for you. I had a hard time with the 'homogenious armor' word as well. What made it worse other than the "Homo-gee-nee-us" pronunciation was that some tankers just said "Homogenous" armor, like the milk. Still, it wasn't worth mentioning in the middle of a class or training session and besides, they thought they were saying it right. 

 

:D Ron

  • Member since
    November, 2016
  • From: Baraboo, WI
Posted by Poniatowski on Sunday, October 07, 2018 2:24 PM

Rob Gronovius

The "bustle rack" and the "turret basket" are two different things. A bustle rack is named after an old fashioned lady's bustle skirt which is a wire support that gave them a bigger butt under their dress. See the center model below.

The turret basket is the portion of the crew compartment that rotates with the turret. Previously on older tanks, the turret was separate and the crew had to "walk" with the turret as it rotated. A basket was added under the turret and the crew could now be seated and rotate with the turret. The turret floor is the bottom of the turret basket. The area under the turret floor is called the sub-turret floor. A black hole where hand tools vanish.

This is a turret basket, a basket hanging under the turret.

Bustle rhymes with hustle.

Bogies sound like the actor's name.

The rails on M48, M60 and M1 tanks are called "grunt rails" even though infantymen no longer are able to hang onto them (as on the Abrams tank). Grunt rails are on the side and the bustle rack is on the rear, although today, they rails basically continue around the back to become the bustle rack on an Abrams.

 

 

Perfect!

 

:D Ron

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Sunday, October 07, 2018 6:00 PM

Poniatowski

Here's one for you. I had a hard time with the 'homogenious armor' word as well. What made it worse other than the "Homo-gee-nee-us" pronunciation was that some tankers just said "Homogenous" armor, like the milk. Still, it wasn't worth mentioning in the middle of a class or training session and besides, they thought they were saying it right. 

 

:D Ron

 

You get a lot of soldiers from the inner cities, rural south, midwest, etc. You get pronunciations all over the place. SFC I had in ROTC never could say "obstacle" properly. Highly competent NCO, it sounded like "op-a-cull" as in op-a-cull course.

One of my platoon sergeants, from good ol' Kentucky, would pronounce the word "sabot" (say-bo) as "say-bot".

Soldier I had from NYC (told to join the Army or go to jail), was infamous for his use of the word "youse" as in youse guys. Think "My Cousin Vinnie".

We used a lot of words that don't exist, CUC-V, HMMWV, HEMMT so what some soldiers hear, isn't what is said. I've seen folks think it's called a "cubby" and not "Cuck-Vee".

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, October 07, 2018 6:05 PM

Rob Gronovius

Soldier I had from NYC (told to join the Army or go to jail), was infamous for his use of the word "youse" as in youse guys. Think "My Cousin Vinnie".

And the other members of the squad were "Yoots".

Being in the architecture and building tech world, the pronunciation I hear most often is Homo-gene-ius. Webster's suggests something more like Hom-ahh-jen-ius.

Old timers in the field of structural engineering used the term Col-yooms for the vertical load bearing parts of a structure.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Sunday, October 07, 2018 6:07 PM

My godfather, who was told to join the Navy or go to jail, became an SSBN skipper. Must have been an interesating security clearance search.

  • Member since
    July, 2004
  • From: Sunny So. Cal... The OC
Posted by stikpusher on Sunday, October 07, 2018 11:41 PM

I heard my last name murdered so many different ways in the Army, I can only imagine how some of the other guys here came out. I’m sure the same went for Major/Colonel Rob and Heavy Arty, aka Gino. We came across folks from all education levels, regions, and backgrounds. But it was all good and I would not trade it for anything. 

 

F is for FIRE, That burns down the whole town!

U is for URANIUM... BOMBS!

N is for NO SURVIVORS...

       - Plankton

LSM

 

  • Member since
    November, 2016
  • From: Baraboo, WI
Posted by Poniatowski on Monday, October 08, 2018 7:29 AM

Rob Gronovius

 

 
Poniatowski

Here's one for you. I had a hard time with the 'homogenious armor' word as well. What made it worse other than the "Homo-gee-nee-us" pronunciation was that some tankers just said "Homogenous" armor, like the milk. Still, it wasn't worth mentioning in the middle of a class or training session and besides, they thought they were saying it right. 

 

:D Ron

 

 

 

You get a lot of soldiers from the inner cities, rural south, midwest, etc. You get pronunciations all over the place. SFC I had in ROTC never could say "obstacle" properly. Highly competent NCO, it sounded like "op-a-cull" as in op-a-cull course.

 

One of my platoon sergeants, from good ol' Kentucky, would pronounce the word "sabot" (say-bo) as "say-bot".

Soldier I had from NYC (told to join the Army or go to jail), was infamous for his use of the word "youse" as in youse guys. Think "My Cousin Vinnie".

We used a lot of words that don't exist, CUC-V, HMMWV, HEMMT so what some soldiers hear, isn't what is said. I've seen folks think it's called a "cubby" and not "Cuck-Vee".

 

You are so right! 'Say-bot' or 'sabbot' (sabot) was a big one. Really though, no big deal. We knew what they meant.  My favorite was "All sek-ooor" as in, "Make sure your gear is all sekooor." That's what I liked about my service. I met a LOT of people of different backgrounds and nationalities. Once, at Fort Sill, I saluted a German Bundeswehr NCO, because his uniform was so sharp and I didn't know German rank insignia yet.  Better safe than sorry!  

  • Member since
    November, 2016
  • From: Baraboo, WI
Posted by Poniatowski on Monday, October 08, 2018 7:35 AM

stikpusher

I heard my last name murdered so many different ways in the Army, I can only imagine how some of the other guys here came out. I’m sure the same went for Major/Colonel Rob and Heavy Arty, aka Gino. We came across folks from all education levels, regions, and backgrounds. But it was all good and I would not trade it for anything. 

 

Don't get me started on that one!  Once, during mail call, a Drill Sergeant stood in front of the formation yelling "ALPHABET!!!"  I knew he meant me, but I wanted a better effort. Finally, he looked at the name again and yelled, "SKI!!!"  That's when I ran up and got my package. When he asked why I hadn't come up before, I shrugged and answered that I though 'Alphabet' might have been Rodwakolowicz.  He nodded and gave me the package. I wonder if he ever realized we didn't have a Rodwakolowicz in the battery? Hmm

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Monday, October 08, 2018 10:46 AM

stikpusher

I heard my last name murdered so many different ways in the Army, I can only imagine how some of the other guys here came out. I’m sure the same went for Major/Colonel Rob and Heavy Arty, aka Gino. We came across folks from all education levels, regions, and backgrounds. But it was all good and I would not trade it for anything. 

 

I went through my career being LT G, XO, Captain G or BMO, Major G, Colonel G. Last name was always butchered, often with the "N" and the "V" being swapped in pronunciation.

In writing, a third "O" was often added. I'd get calls saying my email bounced and I'd tell them to delete the third "O" in my last name and resend. Most of my kids' award certificates from school have the same spelling error.

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Tuesday, October 09, 2018 8:20 PM

Rob Gronovius
I went through my career being LT G, XO, Captain G or BMO, Major G, Colonel G. Last name was always butchered, often with the "N" and the "V" being swapped in pronunciation. In writing, a third "O" was often added. I'd get calls saying my email bounced and I'd tell them to delete the third "O" in my last name and resend. Most of my kids' award certificates from school have the same spelling error

I actually will "misspell" my name based on what use I think it will be put to (spam, registration cards, customer surveys, etc.)  Which makes culling it at the mailbox easy.

The number of folk who insist on trying to say "Mc" as "Me" still astounds me.

In Naval service, nametags are only really required on fatigues/utilities, otherwise it's at Higher's discretion.  On TDY, I would occasionally just get a temporary nametag.  Which, naturally, would lead to mischied.  Like gettign one made that read "Bligh."  Or "Scheuler"  Even "Gakkyu" the one time.  In my O-4 days, my go-to, though was "Trouble" particularly since few seemed to understand my gold oak leaf was LCDR, not Major.

  • Member since
    September, 2012
Posted by GMorrison on Tuesday, October 09, 2018 8:45 PM

I wouldn't have been able to resist Queeg.

  • Member since
    November, 2005
  • From: Formerly Bryan, now Arlington, Texas
Posted by CapnMac82 on Friday, October 12, 2018 9:12 PM

GMorrison
wouldn't have been able to resist Queeg.

LoL.  hard part is getting a snipe to part with the right size ball bearings Smile

When I was doing inter-service instruction, with my boss' approval, I had an "official" nametag reading "Bligh."  Anyone you called me "Mister Bligh" was called Mr Christian in return.

During the Second Depression I was teaching AutoLISP and VisualLISP at the local vocational college in a very off-books way.  The intructor name I used was Ishmael Queequeg.  It was illuminating to see which students looked up whow the instructor was rather than just when did the class meet.

To wrench this back on topic, it's fascinating that we still use some nautical terms--hull, turret, sponson, etc., to tank parts.  All of which go back to the obsfucation the Brits used in the top secret development of the Tank back in WWI.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Sydney, Australia
Posted by Phil_H on Friday, October 12, 2018 9:32 PM

CapnMac82
To wrench this back on topic, it's fascinating that we still use some nautical terms--hull, turret, sponson, etc., to tank parts. All of which go back to the obsfucation the Brits used in the top secret development of the Tank back in WWI.

I think it's more to do with the early conceptualisation of armoured vehicles as "landships", resulting in Churchill (then First Lord Of The Admiralty) establishing the "Landship Committee", which included naval officers and engineers, to oversee the development of AFV's. It's no surprise that naval/nautical terminology crossed over. 

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