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Modelling Patton tank interior in 1:35

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  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Fort Knox
Posted by Rob Gronovius on Tuesday, January 01, 2019 10:45 AM

While I never served on an M60A1 of any type, the A3s had two fire extinguishers. Each had a spot in a rack, although I recall one being in the oddment tray.

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Tuesday, January 01, 2019 4:10 PM

Hello!

That's a cool bit of info about that fire extinguisher cooking off... That air duct blowing on it, would it also heat it up in Vietnam? What I mean to ask is can you turn that heat off when it's hot outside?

Rob - my CEV TM also says two extinguishers, one under the loader's seat, the other on the coax ammo box. What were the locations in the -A3?

And today I've got something special for you, my holy Grail:

1:35 M60A1 traverse gearbox assembly by Pawel

What do you say?

Thanks for looking and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    October, 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Wednesday, January 02, 2019 10:52 AM

As far as I can remember, the A1 and A3 only had the one under the loaders seat. As far as using one in Vietnam, the heater was controlled by the driver. It had a seperate switch and high/low switch Way to hot to even turn on even if it worked at all. Your holy grail is looking good.

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Thursday, January 03, 2019 3:19 PM

Thanks a lot, M60_tanker, for your comment and for your kind words. Have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Friday, January 04, 2019 5:59 PM

Hello everybody!

I'm working on. Today I'd like to show you another important component of the "Cadillacs" aka in the TMs as the Powerpack or Gunner's Control Unit. Here's what I have:

1:35 M60A1 powerpack - Gunner's Control Unit by Pawel

1:35 M60A1 powerpack - Gunner's Control Unit by Pawel

Again I would like to ask for your comments or remarks, Thanks in advance and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Sunday, January 06, 2019 2:22 PM

Hello everybody!

I would like to give you an idea about all the parts I have so far working together. Here's how it would look like if you put them together. Two of the hangers are shown without the tubes - and I have the option of 3D printing the tubes, or leving them off, so that the modeller could substitute some wire - to be decided how it will end up. Of course there's no problem offering both options to be chosen from. OK, the picture:

1:35 M60A1 lower turret assembly by Pawel

I'm still working on the TC's seat and I already made the post a little thinner - it's 2,4mm in diameter now - or 84mm = 3 1/3'' in diameter real life. What would you say, is that right?

Thanks for looking and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Sunday, January 06, 2019 6:57 PM

That is looking awesome so far.  I like it.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: http://smg.photobuck...v231/HeavyArty/?

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    October, 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Monday, January 07, 2019 1:23 PM

Really looking good Pawel. Are you going to add any detail to the M68 gun mount? I'm also assuming you are using the AFV M60A1/A3 as the start point. I really like your turret basket. Would like to see the drawing with the banana boxes in place. Then all you have left is the sight box w / the 3 round ready rack and the 13 round ready rack on the turret floor. Will you be doing the ready rack located behind the loaders position?

Ray

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Monday, January 07, 2019 4:06 PM

Hello!

Gino, M60_tanker - thanks a lot for your kind words, they mean a lot to me!

M60_tanker - as for the gun mount - I would love to, but I start to feel I lack the reference somewhat. I have some real problems locating a pdf version of the TM-9-2350-257. I've got them for the CEV, its the -222, and they help me a lot, if I could find them also for the M60A1, that would be something.

Now I'll try to post a render with the banana boxes in place and that shouldn't be too hard, as I have those banana boxes are already done in 3D. I have the early sight/rations box already done in styrene, so that shouldn't be too hard neither. I would have the biggest problem with those ready rounds. But eventually I want to draw them in 3D too.My biggest problems here are reference materials and some basic dimensions of parts to start from.

Thanks for reading and have a nice day

Paweł

 

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    October, 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Monday, January 07, 2019 5:23 PM

I'll see if i can't track down a TM for you. Hopefully the -10 should show you what you need.

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Tuesday, January 08, 2019 8:31 AM

Pawel - Will you be offering this as a kit through Shapeways or somewhere else once you are done with it?

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: http://smg.photobuck...v231/HeavyArty/?

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Tuesday, January 08, 2019 12:18 PM

M60_tanker - that would help a lot. For now I'm working off a pretty collection of CEV TMs (-222-), but I'm getting into trouble when it comes to M60 specific parts.

Gino - Yes, but rather as several parts to compose your own specific interior from. I'll let you know when I'm ready.

Thanks for looking and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    October, 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Tuesday, January 08, 2019 1:50 PM

Pawel, try looking for TM 9-2350-253-34P-2. This is the parts manual for turret for a M60A3 TTS. I have found TM 9-2350-25334P-1, which is for the hull.

 

Ray

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Wednesday, January 09, 2019 1:57 PM

Hello Ray!

I've found it, thanks a lot! It's very helpful, shows a lot of M60A3 specific parts. Looking for TMs I've also found TM-9-2300-378-20P-2-2 and TM-9-2300-378-35-2, both from around 1968 - those describe the differences between M48A2, M48A3, M60, M60A1 and M728 very neatly. Plus I'm back from the business trip - now I can resume my work. Like they say - back to the drawing board! Thanks for reading and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Sunday, January 13, 2019 5:37 PM

Hello!

I've got another part done - the TC's seat. This baby is more complicated that it would seem on the first look. The trick was to get the offset of the post and the footrest right. Here's what I have:

1:35 M60A1 TC's seat by Pawel

1:35 M60A1 TC's seat by Pawel

I might have to add a "sprue" between the backrest and the seat pan, to make sure the part doesn't break at the hinge when they print, clean or handle it.

Thanks for looking and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Saturday, January 19, 2019 1:23 PM

Hello!

I got into some trouble fitting the parts together (luckily still in 3D - that's the beauty of this technology). At the fronf of the turret floor there's a bracket holding the "powerpack" to the floor, and right next to it there's the foot of one of the turret floor hangers. From the foot then tho pipes go diagonally up - and I can't fit them unless I make the hanger tubes different lengths. Now I'm wondering if that's right - for a long time i had the impression the hangers were almost identical and symmetric - and now I can't fit it all this way. I guess I have to check out some more TMs..I sure would appreciate any help here, although I realize this is one realli picky question here...

Thanks for reading and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Saturday, January 19, 2019 6:42 PM

Hello again!

Here's the problem I'm talking about - and at the same time my solution. The part marked red in the picture below is the hanger I was talking about. The tube in the right part of the picture is considerably longer than the one in the left part of the picture:

1:35 M60A1 lower turret assembly by Pawel

Luckily it isn't very apparent on the first look. I think I'll leave it like this, unless somebody's got a better idea?

In the same picture you can see my freshly drawn main hydraulic accumulator.

Thanks for lookin' and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Wednesday, January 23, 2019 3:29 PM

Hello everybody!

Can somebody give me a hand as to the ready rounds stored on the turret platform, to the left of the Gun? First thing I need is what all the different round types were called - I mean the M-number of the HEAT, APFSDS, HE and so on rounds. In the end I will need the dimensions of those rounds to draw them in 3D.

I also think it would be best to print the rounds separately from the brackets, so that they can be more easily painted. This way also everybody can make his own mix of rounds in the ready rack - or were there any regulations governing the placement of rounds?

Thanks in advance for any help here and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    September, 2018
  • From: Vancouver, Washington USA
Posted by Sergeant on Wednesday, January 23, 2019 4:53 PM

The

Pawel

Hello everybody!

I would like to give you an idea about all the parts I have so far working together. Here's how it would look like if you put them together. Two of the hangers are shown without the tubes - and I have the option of 3D printing the tubes, or leving them off, so that the modeller could substitute some wire - to be decided how it will end up. Of course there's no problem offering both options to be chosen from. OK, the picture:

1:35 M60A1 lower turret assembly by Pawel

I'm still working on the TC's seat and I already made the post a little thinner - it's 2,4mm in diameter now - or 84mm = 3 1/3'' in diameter real life. What would you say, is that right?

Thanks for looking and have a nice day

Paweł

 

Nice work Pawel.

  • Member since
    October, 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Wednesday, January 23, 2019 4:53 PM

Pawel

Hello everybody!

Can somebody give me a hand as to the ready rounds stored on the turret platform, to the left of the Gun? First thing I need is what all the different round types were called - I mean the M-number of the HEAT, APFSDS, HE and so on rounds. In the end I will need the dimensions of those rounds to draw them in 3D.

I also think it would be best to print the rounds separately from the brackets, so that they can be more easily painted. This way also everybody can make his own mix of rounds in the ready rack - or were there any regulations governing the placement of rounds?

Thanks in advance for any help here and have a nice day

Paweł

 

Pawel, when we were uploaded in Germany, the floor storage was exclusively for HEP and Smoke rounds. They had to be stored vertically so the contents didn't shift and cause the rounds to wobble in flight. At lease that's what we were told. Wheather is was true or not, that was SOP. 5 rounds of Hep and 5 rounds of smoke. Last 3 were sabot. It's been to may years for me to remember the model numbers. But, I'm sure somebody will chime in. Ray

 

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Wednesday, January 23, 2019 5:15 PM

That sounds right for the HEP and Smoke rounds.  We have to do the same for artillery smoke rounds so they are stable in flight.

For the rounds:

M77 AP-T
M82 APC-T
M318 AP-T
M318A1 AP-T
M332A1 HVAP-T
M336 90mm Canister Tank Cartridge
M348 HEAT
M348A1 HEAT
M377 90mm Canister Tank Cartridge
M431 HEAT-T
M690 APFSDS
M691 HESH-T
M692 HESH-TP

Now to find pics of them all to see what they look like.  Good luck.

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: http://smg.photobuck...v231/HeavyArty/?

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    October, 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Wednesday, January 23, 2019 5:53 PM

Pawel, try this website. Ray

http://bulletpicker.com/cartridge_-105mm-hep-t_-m393a2.html

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Thursday, January 24, 2019 9:37 AM

Ray, Gino - thanks a lot for your comments and the great info!

http://bulletpicker.com seems to be a great source for references, some rounds even have their dimensions pointed out, that's great.

Gino - the rounds you posted all seem to be 90mm rounds, just perfect for Vietnam. For the 105mm rounds I have found the following:

M416 WP-T
M494 APERS-T
M728 ADPS-T
M774 APFSDS-T
M456 HEAT-T
M392 APDS-T
Would the WP-T round be the one to be stowed vertically? I still have to find that HEP round.
For the CEV it's easy - it only had HEP rounds. And curiously enough, most of them were stored horizontally...
Thanks again for the great info and have a nice day
Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    December, 2002
  • From: Valrico, FL
Posted by HeavyArty on Thursday, January 24, 2019 10:21 AM

That sounds right on the WP round.  WP arty rounds are stored vertically as well.  For the M68 105mm rounds, I don't think there is really a need to print them.  AFV Club already has a set available in metal.  They are very nice and come with decals and PE base plates, at a reasonable price (about $20).  As long as you make just the empty holder, any round coulbe used in them (Tamiya had some in their old U.S. Modern Accessory set as well).

 

Gino P. Quintiliani - Field Artillery - The KING of BATTLE!!!

Check out my Gallery: http://smg.photobuck...v231/HeavyArty/?

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell

  • Member since
    October, 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Thursday, January 24, 2019 11:19 AM

I have two sets of these. They are really nice. But, if you look at the package, there are no HEP (HESH) rounds. You could use the smoke rounds as they are similar in shape. Just need to paint them OD.

Pawel, forgot to comment on the risers for the turret basket. You are correct in assuming that some are not the same lenth. Depending on where they are located, they have to fit around the equipmet installed.

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Thursday, January 24, 2019 6:17 PM

Hello!

Ray - thanks a lot for your comment about that "crooked" hanger. I'm going to leave it as it is now. Doesn't look bad and fits - that's actually all we ask of it, right?

Gino - I have also found this set and it is nice. But I think I'll draw those rounds for completeness' sake, anyway. It's not so hard to do, and I have the impression that the AFV CLub set is getting hard to get. Also, wouldn't it be a shame to glue those nice case bases right to the turret floor? Those AFV Club projos are much better at home on a "reloading a tank" diorama. I think 3D printed rounds could have at least some use to some people.

The Tamiya set is also something to consider - but wouldn't it take more than one set to fill the ready rack?

Gino, Ray - would you be so kind as to take some basic measurements of those projos? Especially the cases would be interesting for me.

Thanks a lot for your help here and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    October, 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Friday, January 25, 2019 2:29 PM

Pawel
Gino, Ray - would you be so kind as to take some basic measurements of those projos? Especially the cases would be interesting for me.

I'll see what I can do for you this weekend. The  casings were all the same length, just the projectiles were different. I would like to see you do them. At $20.00 a pop for the ones from AFV, it could get really expensive, real quick.

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Friday, February 01, 2019 3:58 PM

Hello!

I have started drawing the ammo storage. I assume in 1:35 the case base would be 4,2mm. I have drawn up the periscope storage box, and then I have roughly sketched the three round storage tubes next to the box. I have my doubts as to the proportions of that assembly, and so I'd like to ask you for your opinion. Here's what I've got:

1:35 M60A1 storage box & ammo tubes by Pawel

1:35 M60A1 storage box & ammo tubes by Pawel

I'm a little worried, that the tubes are much higher than the storage box - is that OK? Should there be something else mounted up on the rear portion of the storage box? And is it OK that the tubes go this far back? I will be careful to make sure those tubes don't interfere with the battery access door.

I would surely be glad to see what you think about it - thanks in advance for your help and have a nice day

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

  • Member since
    October, 2015
  • From: Tacoma, WA.
Posted by M60_ tanker on Friday, February 01, 2019 4:43 PM

Pawel, try this sight.

www.toadmanstankpictures.com/m60a1_trainer.htm

  • Member since
    May, 2009
  • From: Poland
Posted by Pawel on Friday, February 01, 2019 6:19 PM

Hello Ray!

Thanks a lot for the link! I almost feel like "what took you so long!"... Sorry about that... I've been looking for a photo collection like this. It also means back to the drawing board... I have to re-do some things now.

But a photo like this one:

One of Toadman's Tank Pictures

Surely shows me the right direction. Thanks again and have a nice day!

Paweł

All comments and critique welcomed. Thanks for your honest opinions!

www.vietnam.net.pl

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